Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apostolic
 

FRUIT???!!!

The following was posted today by a prominent, high-ranking UPCI pastor:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TG...tolicfruit.jpg

I'm sorry but COLOR ME BAPTIST ...

The fruit of the Spirit is not enough?
We need "apostolic fruit" for "apostolic revival"?

The gifts or charismata of the Spirit are too entertaining? Requiring less work for us?

Edward Anglin you were right. Holy Toledo!

Yes, officially a cult of Pelagianism has gripped many in Apostolica .... where one's performance is the apex.

We now are branding His fruit ... sad.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

I think you missed his point. I think he is actually mocking "apostolic fruit" and using it sarcastically, since he spoke to what people call "apostolic revival" when no fruit are mentioned. I would say he agrees with you more than you think, DAII. With all their "apostolic revival" references, where is their (to use THEIR TERMS) "Apostolic" fruit. Your reference man used sarcasm, bro. Sarcasm. ...unless I missed something.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Then why say the gifts are too entertaining and less work for us. Whether his focus is on apostolic fruit or not ....
Methinks there is some screwed up theology somewhere here ... Blumie.

The reality is the term is making headway.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Still makes sense to me, D. I think he means that emphasis on the gifts is wrong. Sensationalism. Paul said the gifts were operated fully by the Corinthians (1 Cor 1:7) but they were yet carnal (3:3). They are an example of emphasis on gifts and lacking in fruit as is evident in Ch 3 and 13.

You can get by with a lot of trash by emphasis on gifts and no fruit.

The dude is right, IMHO. Think "Corinthian". By not enough work, he means not enough getting hold of God in self denial and allowing the Spirit to change our lives, which you can escape when you emphasize the gifts. I preach this all the time! And I love the gifts, too.

Jesus spoke of those who cast out devils and perform wonders and how He never knew them. No self denial.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Thanks Mike - I think you got the original author's thoughts correctly - I read them the same. Too much hype and shows, not enough fruit, which requires dogging it out day by day without a lot of fanfare.

DAII, I can see where you got your take on the original post, but as it so often happens on thee forums, the original intent can be easily missed. I think the original post was a 'tongue in cheek' post.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

I may be mistaken in his attachment to the term "apostolic fruit" ... will see what his response is ... however the reality still is that the term is making its rounds ... and for him to address it means it's most likely floating about Apostolica.

The Apostolic branding is everywhere and its scary.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

I agree with you on that one. Plus, another new term, at least for me, is Apostolica. It seems to me that we are becoming more in love with our identity terms than we are in the word of God, and even Jesus Himself.

To the readers of the thread:

I have been involved in a western church study on the study, teaching, and observance (practice) of apostolic teaching. Most Bible teachers and a great majority of believers do not know what the Apostles taught. Of what is known of what was taught during the first three centuries of the church, less than 50% of 'aposotlics' actually practice what they profess to know and accept. The results are: We are mostly apostolic in name only, not in doctrine.

Note: Observing Acts 2:38, speaking in tongues, women not cutting their hair or wearing pants, or the paying of tithes to a pastor does not an apostolic make! The point being made in this thread is simply that calling ourselves by any name, title, or descriptive term and having religious services that seek after signs and wonders (a 'religious' experience in the exercise of spiritual gifts), rather than developing a more intimate relationship with Jesus, does not meet the published biblical standards for corporate worship.

Walking in the fruit of the Spirit requires a much greater commitment to God than exercising (using or misusing) a 'gift' of that same Spirit. In some churches there is a worship atmosphere of worship of the gifts, while the giver of the gifts is all but ignored. Thank God that this sweeping indictment is not yet universal, but never-the-less, the problem continues to grows!

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

He was being critical of those that focus on gifts and never mention fruit as far as revival goes

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Maintaining a close relationship with God does NOT produce spiritual fruit.

Spiritual fruit matures naturally in the lives of Spirit-filled believers who do not quench the work of the Spirit.

Shaw misses the boat on that one.

However, I do think he has a point. "Apostolics" rarely mention spiritual fruit.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Dan, I don't get it. What is his point?

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

This makes much more sense!

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

This has to be the most confusing thread ever! Who said "maintaining a close relationship with God does not produce spiritual fruit"? That makes no sense!

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

The gifts of the spirit are important for the edification of the body of Christ,but we should as believers be manifesting the fruit of the Spirit in our daily walk with The lord.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

When one is trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, details like context and clarity are of little importance. :blah

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Those are my words.

The only thing that produces spiritual fruit is the uninhibited work of the Spirit.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

How is it possible to let the Spirit work uninhibited in our lives if we don't maintain a close relationship with Him? Don't they both go hand in hand? If we sow to the Spirit (maintain a close personal relationship with the Spirit through prayer, study of his word (getting to know Him), and fasting won't we then reap of the Spirit. If we abide in the vine, we will bring forth much fruit. Isn't abiding in the vine the same as having a close relationship with God?

I guess I don't understand what you are saying.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

I had a friend that told me once that one can't be a Christian with out speaking in tongues. I said "aren't we to be like Christ" and they said, "yes and Christ was for speaking in tongues." I said "huh?" Many people have came up with crazy sayings and stuff but when you actually look at them MANY of them have no biblical base just "apostolic fruit" or "apostolic cross." How about an "apostolic passover" or an "apostolic ten commandments" oh wait we have those already. My bad.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Well, there is already an apostolic birthday song...... <ugh!>

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

I hate the "I am a Pentecostal" song. What a waste of 10 minutes. My favorite thing that I hear a lot is things like this "apostolic message." That really bugs me. The message is NOT Acts 2:38 our response to the Gospel might be Acts 2:38, but it isn't the message. I tend to shy away when people say that stuff.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

DA, I think MB has the right idea about the author's point. It seems more like he's saying there's no emphasis on "fruit", apostolic, spiritual or otherwise, and rather a lot of talk and emphasis on the "gifts", since they're easier (presumably to put on display).

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

I get that... Still puzzling where he was going with "Apostolic fruit" and "revival fruit." A bit awkward.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

What would "apostolic fruit" look like?

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

An orange, or apple, or grapefruit... with a poof on it.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Who knows? :rolleyes2

I agree with MB - I think it was sort of a mocking reference to what an Apostolic would call the fruits of the spirit.

I could be wrong, though. It has happened once or twice. :coffee2

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

You must be mistaken about that :P

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

I never thought of it in those terms . I like it , a response to the Gospel. I agree whole heartily .

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

:toofunny

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Some of the old timers preached that Jesus spoke in tongues when He said:
"Talitha cumi" Mark 5:41
"Abba" Mark 14:46
"Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" Matthew 27:46

I'm not sure but I think Joel Hemphill's dad was one that preached that.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Well, I've seen some fruity looking apostolics.....

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

OH Boy talk about unlearned.............

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I thought you missed his point too, Dan. He seems to be making a good point......Apostolics need more fruit and less showmanship.

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Shouldn't we be indentified by our fruit?

And shouldn't our fruit be love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance?


If Jesus is the root, love will be the fruit!



Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neithercana corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

The original one who coined the term "Apostolic fruit" was just mocking those who clamour for apostolic revival, using their words, "Apostolic gifts", and asked where are the "apostolic" fruit?

So, IMHO, if it "gets around" and people start using the term "Apostolic fruit" outside of mockery, then it will be taken out of context from what this minister meant.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

:thumbsup

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

Fruit is EVERYTHING! Gifts are not. Gifts are needed and they help the church and meet needs and even glorify God. Signs and wonders confirm the Word. But, as in the case of the Corinthians, they can be abused and taken out of order, and be operated by people who are ungodly who envy, strive and divide.

1Co 1:7 KJV So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1Co 3:1-3 KJV And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. (2) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. (3) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Gal 5:19-21 KJV Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, (20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, (21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You can work iniquity and operate the gifts, but you cannot do so and have the fruit of the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 KJV This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Walking in the Spirit causes one to manifest fruit of the Spirit, so that the works of the flesh and WORKS of iniquity cannot manifest.

The high priest wore on the hem of his robe a pomegranate and a bell and a pomegranate and a bell, etc. FRUIT AND GIFT. And without the fruit, THE GIFT IS A TINKLING CYMBAL.

1Co 13:1 KJV Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

JUST BELLS AND WHISTLES without the fruit!

Flesh loves the gifts because they are sensational. God DOES sensational things. That is why the signs confirmed the word. And that is good. But fleshly ministers can abrogate the fruit in favour of gifts and retain their own carnality. But together the fruit and gifts are AWESOME!

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

And yet your whole salvational paradigm from the moment a sinner goes to the altar is to get them saved and regenerated by getting them to speak in tongues .... if not there are nods of disappointment and hush puppy eyes saying "We'll get 'em next time".

Don't focus on the gifts like tongues but it's what we measure salvation by ... gotcha.

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Now you're changing the subject. :lol

But I will amuse you. Initial evidence is far from ongoing evidence.

And you make my point! Immaturity could be no more present in a person aside from the first moment they are saved. That does not remove the fact that tongues are necessarily evidence of what saves us, while tongues in themselves do not save anyone. It is false accusation to say we preach tongues save. Evidence of what does save can never be confused with what does save.

We get no one to speak in tongues. The Spirit gives the utterance. :thumbsup

And the gift of tongues is not the same as the initial evidence of the Spirit, anyway. But even if you think they are, immaturity is expected from a newborn child of God. How can fruit be present in an immature state? That is the whole reason for fruit -- SPIRITUAL MATURITY. That was the whole point that your reference speaker was making!

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No such distinction is made in the the New Testament explicitly by the apostles ... only the fancy of those who have created a new salvational paradigm a century ago.

You can't say don't focus on the "entertaining" stuff when service after service that's what you seek to get folks in the ship and part of the club.

Re: Fruit of The Spirit Not Enough - We Need Apost
 

You miss the point again! Immaturity is necessary in order to contrast it from maturity. And getting a newborn and glowing at the immaturity is by no means negative in contrast to those who should be off the bottle by now and maturing with much fruit, who still are immature. Apples and oranges, brother.