Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country," Obama told an intently listening crowd gathered at the White House Friday evening to observe the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.
"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...r-ground-zero/


Some reactions
"Barack Obama has abandoned America at the place where America's heart was broken nine years ago, and where her true values were on display for all to see," said Debra Burlingame, a spokeswoman for some Sept. 11 victims' families and the sister of one of the pilots killed in the attacks.
Building the mosque at ground zero, she said, "is a deliberately provocative act that will precipitate more bloodshed in the name of Allah."


Sally Regenhard, whose firefighter son was killed at the World Trade Center, said the president had failed to understand the issue. "As an Obama supporter, I really feel that he's lost sight of the germane issue, which is not about freedom of religion," she said. "It's about a gross lack of sensitivity to the 9/11 families and to the people who were lost."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...-mosque-draws/

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

To me its like a slap in the face to the victims families. I think it is pathetic.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Where was Obama on the National Day of Prayer?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

he might as well proclaim he is a muslim...

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Yup, he kicked off Ramadan with his Islamic crew but dissed the Christians and the boyscouts....anyone think he is gonna get re-elected?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Well, I know a whole lot of the "legal" Mexicans, around here, are mad at Obama about coming against the Arizona law. So, if he does, I will be surprised.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

He shouldn't but never underestimate the Republicans ability to shoot themselves in the foot and grab defeat from the jaws of victory. Usually in the form of McCain with some damaging sound bite at the worst possible moment.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Good save!!!!!!!!!!! :ursofunny :toofunny


"President Barack Obama told CNN Saturday that in defending the right of Muslims to build a community center and mosque near ground zero in a speech Friday night, he was "not commenting on the wisdom" of the project but trying to uphold the broader principle that the government should treat "everyone equal, regardless" of religion."


http://www.breitbart.tv/backtrack-ob...d-zero-mosque/

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

You are right, Randy. If he gets voted in again, I probably will never vote again. Because, clearly, nothing really matters, but what I am going to prepare for dinner! LOL!

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

The idea of erecting anything resembling Islam near the WTC grounds maybe difficult to swallow, but what would be the legal and constitutional argument against what President Obama said?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

As the article stated, there is no legal argument. It's a moral argument.

In fact I think this should portrait in the minds of all Americans the bigger picture of Islam, that they know full well the sentiment of Americans on this issue and yet they continue to move forward with this "in your face" move and Obama took sides. He would be better to serve the interests of Americans to have not taken sides.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Why did he feel the need to comment on it? Freedom of religion is not the issue, the issue is it is a place where thousands lost their lives to an attack from Muslim radicals. Would we allow the Japanese to build a Buddhist Temple at Pearl Harbor?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

There are a number of colorful euphemisms for why, but the least offensive is he was cowing to the Muslims

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

There you go!

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

So then, is it plausible or wise to prohibit this project because of an objection outside the lines of law? Law provides principle that may not feel good in one case but supports the overall picture. What if the next "Moral argument" is the city of Salt Lake City stopping the building of your church because they have a "Moral objection" to your denomination?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

This is irrelevant. The thread is not about legalities.

Muslims are not being prevented or even asked NOT to build a mosque in New York. They are being asked NOT to at ground zero of the worst terrorist attack against Americans ON American soil.

It's NOT a matter of "we have a moral objection to Islam the religion" as per your argument. That's apples and oranges

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

If they had a "moral objection" to that denomination because said denomination was involved in a massive slaughter 9 years ago.... Yes, I would say they would have the right.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Technically, it's not AT Ground Zero.

And technically, Muslims are not under a moral indictment as a mass group... or at least shouldn't be.

I think it's a provocative move, and becomes even more provocative that the Imam of the temple refuses to denounce terrorism.... but the fact that Muslims want to erect a community center and temple down the street from Ground Zero (by itself) is not a problem.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

It's close enough for New Yorkers to be upset about it. To many of them it's an "in your face" statement by these Muslims

The fact of the Imam in charge just reinforces the feelings that this is a "in your face" facet of "Silent Jihad" many are concerned about besides the NYorkers and family members of those that lost their lives just being reminded of the "Violant Jihad" that occured on 9/11

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Prax, the up-in-arms tizzy started wayyyyyy before any of them knew the Imam, knew his thoughts, etc.... It's fair for those who withheld judgement until knowing all the info, but many people just had a knee jerk emotional reaction that grouped all Muslims into the 9/11 suspects. Unfair and is more of an indictment on them.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

When it started is irrelevant. The fact of what the Imam is adds fuel to the fire

And yes many people had a knee jerk emotional reaction...not to a Mosque being build anywhere but so close to ground zero. I think a lot of Americans empathize with them. I don't think it is wise to stoke those emotions.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

How could it be irrelevant? If people claim that's the reason for their fury, it's contradicting because they were furious before ever having that information. It's quite relevant.

We must be careful to project Islamaphobia. I feel people do lipservice when they suggest "not all Muslims are radical 9/11 terrorists." Many believe that, or at least that all Muslims support that.

How far away is it acceptable, by the way? 3 blocks? 6? 10? 12?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Wonder how much Muslim money is supporting the Obama campaign?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Do you wonder?

Do you have any factual, substantive material to suggest something "funny" going on here?

Do you think Obama and the Muslims want to take over the world?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

:lol

Thank you for your all-righteous, all-knowing, all-encompassing judgment that my argument is irrelevant but it is EXACTLY the argument that will be used to very possibly, even likely, allow this building project to continue. So go ahead and post bumper stickers, wear t-shirts, or post on a forum that about one ten-millionth of the U.S. population will see, but it is what it is. Legalities and constitutional arguments matter, regardless of what your thread is about.

You're bringing up what the President said. I'm telling you why he said what he said. It matters. Deal with it.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Who said that's the reason for their "fury"?

As I said twice now I think it just adds to it and since the revelation has motivated more people to get on the band wagon.

As I pointed out, this is not a movement to ban Islam nor the building of Mosques. It's simple an issue of placing one so close to ground zero.

How far away is acceptable? I don't know. Since this is really an issue of emotions and the American psyche, I think what might be best is to have a meeting and for the moderate Muslims to say "Look we understand and we sympathize with you. Can we come to a compromise? We don't want to build a Mosque so close that it causes you more emotional pain but we do need another Mosque in this area for worshippers. We've severed ties with ______Imam. How about this location over here? It's further away"


The leaders of this anti Mosque movement will have to come in and say, essentially the same thing, we understand you need a mosque in this area and we are glad you understand the emotional mind set of the families of the fallen on 9/11 as well as the moderate Muslims desire to distinguish themselves from those that perpetrated these actions. We see your concession as an earnest desire towards that end as well. We are fine with the location you have chosen and we thank you for the steps you have taken to alleviate the situation. etc etc


I think that's the only way things are going to work out for both sides. Islam has a bad rap right now and Moderate Muslims are often seen as passive participants. In this case these Muslims have an Imam that just burns that image into the minds of many Americans at this moment.

BTW I repeat that I think the issue of the Imam just increased the numbers of those opposed when they found out and those that were already opposed exasperated their feelings

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Again this isn't a legal issue, so your "legal" argument is beside the point to this thread and what it's about.

I never said legalities or the constitution does not matter, I said it was irrelevant to THIS thread.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Probably not that much compared to the larger number.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Well, pardon me for contributing something that actually matters, to your thread. So if I'm not able to comment on why President Obama said what he said, what can I have your permission to say, oh holy administrator (To thine be the glory)?

Wait a minute...if we're not going to talk about why the president said what he said, what IS this thread about? Are you just wanting to use him for a verbal whipping post? Christians DO love doing that with our current president.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

I didn't say you weren't able to do anything. You are welcome to express your opinion just I expressed mine on what you said without making any personal comments about you.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

First of all, Prax expressed himself as a poster NOT as an administrator, I hope you can understand the difference.

Second, you obvisiously don't get the issue. It is NOT about what is LEGAL. It is about what is morally right for the city of NY. And not only NY but to all Americans.

When you do a study on what this issue is really about I would hope you would understand why there is such an uproar.

It is wrong for them to be given permission to build there. I don't understand why they don't just rebuild the towers, has that ever been an option?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Just one more example of how totally out of touch with the people he is and what an elitist,smarmy, attitude this clown has !

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Did you notice the update? It looks like after his warm and fuzzy dinner speech, he decided to do some back pedaling.

At his dinner speech he, pointedly, said that they had a right to build at "lower Manhattan." It appears he got quite a bit of heat to back pedal on that statement today.

No one is denying the American Muslims their right to build, their right to assemble nor their right of practice under the Constitution.

What is in protest is the poor choice and lack of taste as to the location. Location, location, location.....

The opposition comes from those that don't want a mosque/community center to replace a building that was damaged by the landing gear of one of the jets that flew into the World Trade Center.

That action is an affront to the sensibilities of the majority.

And I think that if this imam goes ahead with his plans, in light of that fact, his motives will always be suspect. If he is actually intent on building bridges, enough for us to believe him, he would graciously back away from that location and build elsewhere. If this is a conquest thing to him, he will build in the old Burlington Coat Factory.

The onus is on Rauf to prove what he is about and if he, honestly, is reaching for "tolerance".

I find it hard to believe that if he is being honest and his life goal in working with the American Society for Muslim Advancement and Cordoba Initiative (strange name choice), is to build bridges only to come to this place and gamble it all - all of his life's work on the line with this project - well, I find that a very strange thing indeed.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

yes,

by either killing off enough infidels go gain supremacy
or
by bloodless jihad to enforce sharia law on all of the U.S.

What else would you expect from Barack Hussein Obama who was raised Muslim in his early years and who has for 20 years sat under a pastor who is anti-American and is an open admirer of Louis Farrakhan?

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

At a Presidential Muslim religious celebration of Ramadan, Obama spoke before a group of about 90 people, including Muslim community leaders, ambassadors, dignitaries and Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.), one of two Muslim members of Congress. President Barack Hussein Obama on Friday endorsed a controversial plan to build a mosque and Islamic center just blocks from Ground Zero in Manhattan, despite the strong objections of conservatives, the ADL and those who lost loved ones in the September 11 attacks.

In recent weeks, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs had deflected questions on the issue, insisting it is “a matter for New York City and the local community to decide.”

Earlier this week, in a statement recognizing the onset of the Muslim holy month, Obama said that the rituals of Ramadan “remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”

The event is this White House’s second recognition of Ramadan, the Islamic month of fasting, with a traditional iftar dinner—a communal event that traditionally marks the breaking of the fast at sundown.


A recent CNN poll found that 68 percent of those surveyed did not approve of building a mosque so close to where the World Trade Center towers fell, killing more than 2,000 people.

“There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia,” Newt Gingrich wrote on his website. “The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us while they demand our weakness and submission is over.”

Earlier this mornth, the ADL came out against the mosque. This week, prominent conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer even compared the proposed mosque to construction of German heritage center at the Auschwitz concentration camp.

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said Obama is “wrong” to endorse an “insensitive and uncaring” project.

“While the Muslim community has the right to build the mosque they are abusing that right by needlessly offending so many people who have suffered so much,” he said in a statement Friday. “The right and moral thing for President Obama to have done was to urge Muslim leaders to respect the families of those who died and move their mosque away from Ground Zero. Unfortunately, the president caved in to political correctness."

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Whew!! I was feeling unwelcome there for a minute. Nearly had to get out the Kleenex. Now, back to the topic:

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, that thing that President Obama said. So, it's basically this: When, in America, we insist on "Freedom of Religion", we must realize that doesn't just mean, "Freedom of MY religion."

Also, it is intellectually dishonest to label all of Islam as being to blame for 9-11. Islam has its crazies, kinda like Christianity has its crazies. Would we judge Christianity by the Kansas nuthouse that shows up at soldier's funerals and parades around with signs that say, "God hates F__'s?

I think not.

So while you may not practice the Muslin faith, it's unjust to judge Islam by the actions of a few extremists. And the fact remains (although it's an irrelevant point according the Prax-a-docious) that in America there is freedom for all religions.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Some feel it is a slap in the face to the Americans and especially to the families of those who lost friends and loved ones in this terrorist attack.
Others feel that this Islamic Center will be a monument to a great Muslim victory as they destroyed thousands of infidels in an act of jihad or holy war.
Others feel it could be a gesture of good will and healing in that the Muslims could reach out to Americans in love and understanding.
There are a lot of unanswered questions like who is promoting this and where the funding is coming from.

Well, recently a model of the proposed Islamic center has been unveiled and presented to the public.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Are you serious?? You're not, are you? You don't really think Obama and the Muslims want to take over the world. Do you? If so, you've either been watch John Hagee or Fox News too much.

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. no

Re: Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero
 

Check this out.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY