What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

I don't mean this thread as a trash and bash on the UPC or any individual and I ask that we try not to go that way...but I've always had questions I could never do anything about in regards to the UPC.

One of my questions is, why does the UPC manual state we reject all extra biblical writings and view creeds and articles of faith as the writing of men yet we have our own Articles of faith? Do you know how confusing that sounds not just to me as a Oneness Pentecostal but to outsiders?

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

"Do you have that $50.00 I loaned you?"

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Not to mention having to sign an affirmation statement! I think it would be appropriate for all of the UPC ministers not to sign the affirm the affirmation statement citing the articles of faith. (LOL!!)

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Do you know PO?


LOL!

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Could you please make an official announcement about beards?

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

What would I ask?

"Who are you?" No, really. I would. I would not recognize him if he was standing in front of me and said "My name is David".

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

That's a good one.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

While I have met Brother Bernard, I do not know him personally, but I suspect that if anyone has a question that would be asked in a respectful and serious manner, by phone, Brother Bernard would be willing to answer that question.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

My next question is, why have an article of faith and NOT include it as our doctrinal statement on the UPCI website? Why print a bunch of tracts instead? Do you know how cheasy that looks?

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

I would ask him what is his favorite Austin area BBQ joint? Better yet his top three.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Do you have a TV ?

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

I would like to ask

Why not at least LISTEN to a seasoned Bible teacher regarding "fulfilled eschatology" or better known as "preterism" rather than blasting the view and forbidding any card carrying preacher to teach it? There is no problem with accepting and teaching a Trinitarian view of eschatology called the Rapture or a post trib view..There are many Apostolic /Oneness pastors who are either teaching this "other view" or they are at least looking at it,some do not wish to be known or come out of the closest.I know of a famous UPC pastor who at leasts teaches a "partial preterism view" but He would not come out and tell you that he does.I will never tell his identity without his permission so do not bother asking me..:)

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Salt Lick. The original one.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

I would ask why he does not support a broad tent idea like the old timers did.

Do you welcome those who were welcomed by leadership at the time of the merger? When can we expect strong leadership on the Executive Board that will return us to our roots in regards to our view of other Christians?

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Ask him about pay raises for music ministers!

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

I'd probably ask his opinion of: Why is it, that the UPC's style of worship is apostolic. ?




(....and then most other denomination's worship is not considered by pentecostals, to be "apostolic")







then I'd go on to ask him how long he's planning on waiting to pay Pel back that $50

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

When I fly out of Austin I almost always get a plate of brisket at the Salt Lick airport location. I don't like their sides but the meat is great.

I agree the original Salt Lick is best. I went to one of the new locations a few years ago and it was not good.

Actually I like Pok-e-Jo's brisket probably the best in Austin. There is another name there that escapes me right now that is really good also. It is the one that originated in San Antonio but they have one in Round Rock and I think in Austin.

If you have time to drive to Elgin that Elgin Sausage is good!

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

He doesn't really "owe" me $50.00, but I thought with so many folks throwing questions at him that he might question himself as to whether he did or didn't and just give me the money to make me go away.

Hey, these are tough economic times we live in.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Seriously, though... he's as circumspect as they come. He won't give you any answers that he hasn't already given in print or elsewhere. With regard to obviously common sense things like beards he'll try to NOT offend the radicals but even DKB knows there's just no Biblical justification for that one.

I "debated" him once long ago, probably before either one of us could even grow hair. I didn't really "debate" - I was just giving a review of one of his upcoming books. But folks kept trying to egg me on, just for fun, I guess.

He made some off hand comment about being "tired" of something (don't remember if it was "tired" exactly or what) that was even directed at anything I had said. People came up to me afterward and said things like, "You got to him on that one!" No I didn't. "That one" didn't even have anything to do with me. Whatever.

He's a nice guy but most people find him to be very taciturn. That's a big reason why he's been "successful" in Apostolica.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

This would probably be the number one question that I'd ask him too.


It sure would be more encouraging for me to know that if I ever wanted to someday be in ministry in an official capaicty that I can do so within the UPCI without violating my conscience.

I am sure eventually I will just have to leave, if this is never addressed in a positive way.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

My pastor invited me to a leadership meeting with a few other pastors in Michigan. Bro. Bernard was there. He opened with a summary of how he wants to lead the UPC and opened it up to a Q&A. I asked him about the merger, Fudge's book was discussed briefly, but from what I remember (I don't think it was recorded) but Bernard said that the majority of the PCI also believed in Acts 2:38 new birth for salvation, while the minority believed in "grace alone", (or salvation comes at repentance, then you get baptized and get the Holy Ghost, hence the first Pentecostal Herald article)

Beards were discussed also. Bernard doesn't have an issue with beards, he doesn't preach for them or against them.

I asked him about "accountability" regarding preachers in the UPC (Which was one of his highlights during his opening as why one should join the UPC). My example was a popular UPC evangelist misquoting multiple sources supporting a teaching, and not doing it just once on accident, but over and over again. He suggested reaching out to this preacher and conducting a round table to discuss this. He also said that if the teachings were continued, less and less people would invite said evangelist and it would eventually die out and take care of itself.

We spend about 30 minutes on beards, and about 5 minutes on preachers in the UPC not being held accountable.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

So pretty much he said that accountability would take care of itself? :thumbsup i guess

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Justin,

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this with us.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Some would dispute whether it was a PCI minority... But I think all agree there were many in both organizations that still treated other Christians (Trinitarian) as brothers and Sisters in the Lord.

How they reconciled that with their theology, differed, but even three steppers very often believed non OPs were not hellbound. I believe that is still the case in the pews today and I very often hear it expressed. In the pulpits, not so much, but even the Pupiteers over coffee generally speak another language entirely.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Yes, we all know that beards are 6 times more important than accountability :D

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Justin, was the "said evangelist" an HMH spokesperson? :)

I like how accountability is akin to market capitalism. Beautiful parallel. Takes care of itself... well, what do you do when it doesn't? How long do you let "the market" battle with false doctrine before you let it just "go away?"

Talking to a unbelieving relative today. Asked them about Jesus and faith. They were positive. Asked them about the church... they said this: "I really see church as another business. Some go into the retail business, and others go into the church business. From marketing down to push-for-profit, retention and selling people their 'merchandise' it just feels like an Amway meeting sometimes."

I appreciated his honesty. Interesting how Capitalism is the answer to Biblical accountability :)

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

As far as saying "I don't preach for them or against them" -- It may be important to make it CLEAR that prohibitions against beards are something taught by the most extreme Biblical retards. That's not preaching "for" beards, that's reinforcing the importance of being a fellowship based on "Bible doctrines."

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

The PCI Manual is clear about the "grace" issue ("saved and then baptized) and in fact, this understanding carries over into the UPCI Manual's explanation of "Repentance."

I would like to push DKB on this matter. The whole isolationist agenda of "everybody's going to hell but us" was clearly NOT a part of the PCI's official and hence, majority position.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...anualpage2.jpg

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

An excellent point. The "beards" things really just a symptom of a deeper problem. Facial hair shouldn't even be an issue. It's embarrassing that it is a topic of controversy.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

I am wondering if Jesus would be invited to their meetings? Well...maybe after they plucked his beard...

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Yes! Yes! Yes! I'd be curious to see what he had to say.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

I would say "Do you know how strongly your books influenced me when I was younger? Then, when I got older, I realized it was a bunch of convoluted stuff. I was a test subject. I followed your books to a T. It doesn't work. Your books are wrong." I would say something like that.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

:ursofunny:killinme

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

I would ask, "Do Chinese people get English sayings tattooed on their bodies?" ... :)

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Justin, (I was at that Q & A session). I don't know of DKB caught it, but I don't think the guy who was asking about facial hair was asking about facial hair, but rather it was about something else.

Facial hair is a "safe" zone in such discussion. However, the sermon the questionnaire was referring to where the preacher said "facial hair was wrong" was most likely (though I could be corrected) a reference to Scott Graham's "follow the stones" message back at Michigan District's Family Camp. ANd I don't actually think facial hair was ever mentioned in that message (though again, I could be reading way too much into things). But a lot of other issues were discussed during that message by Graham (there was even a post by someone about that message not too long ago).

Naturally, Bernard took the question too literally, but at the very least, if you remember how the question about facial hair was asked, it revolved around the biblical accuracy being in favor FOR facial hair as opposed to the bible being against facial hair (Bernard agreed with this point), and how it is ironic that in spite of the bible being more FOR facial hair, he would not be allowed to teach as so in conferences/camps, but yet any preacher can get up and preach against facial hair, and be applauded for it.


Naturally, I don't think it's too much of a leap to substitute any other issue in for facial hair in regards to that question. I was dismayed too about how your question got brushed aside, and facial hair was the focal point of the whole thing


The person who asked was one of the more popular pastors in our state/movement, so I do think he did have things riding on the lines in asking the question and thus may also explain it's neutrality.

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

Do you still speak Korean?

Re: What would you like to ask David Bernard?
 

He also said he'd be doing a similar round table Q&A next year at the Michigan district conference.