The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

I remember being in the world before the UPC. I felt the injustice of many things and saw the structure of the world and how it favored some over others and gave perks to some over others that didn't deserve it, that perhaps slimed their way up, or, often were simply born into their silver spoon status.

I was raised poor, with an alcoholic father who had been the illegitimate son of a 16 year old raped girl. My Dad was later adopted by a divorced man who married my grandmother. They had four more children. They worked a farm and all slept in the upstairs of a house that grew huge icicles on the inside in the winter and dripped on them in the spring. They divorced after my Dad moved out because my grandfather was having an affair and threw my aunt on the floor when she confronted him about it.

My mother grew up materially poor in a family of 14 children. They ate molasses sandwiches and slept many to a bed, covered with coats and blankets for warmth. My mother gave her cousin an empty spool of thread for her birthday. My grandfather was a commerical seasonal fisherman. My grandmother used to cry in the outhouse because she had so many children and did not want anymore, but the Catholic church did not believe in birth control and my grandfather always said "God will provide".

Compared to my parents, I grew up well off, in a house with wood heat that didn't drip on me. We had a real toilet that flushed. I got two new outfits for school every year and if we were lucky, on our back to school trip, we were allowed a cheesburger at McDonalds. (No happy meals as they were too expensive.) We ate venison and fish and garden produce.

My mother used to sing in bars when I was young and us kids often went. I talked to many a drunk on a barstool. My brother and I would stick our arms up into the pool table and pull the balls out because we didn't have any quarters to play pool. My Mom and Dad would fight as my Mom would want to go home after a while and my Dad would want to stay. My Dad used to give me peppermint schnapps on the rocks when I was young. I got drunk first at age 12 and continued the pattern until I was 19.

I saw much injustice in the world. I saw how people who were born into perfect (to me) families had it knocked. I saw how they knew the rules and they knew how to use them to their advantage. I saw how they got all the perks at school and how they were popular and how they got good grades, nice clothes, cars, money and perks.

I did some of that stuff. But I had to work very hard for whatever I got, because it was never handed on a silver platter. I had to learn the rules for myself and earn my keep.

Re: What it is
 

More to come...

Re: What it is
 

The injustice I felt went deep. I had a young bitterness about the world and how it was run. I resented the people who looked down on the less fortunate as somehow lesser people.

When I was 19, I got into the church. The experience with God was wonderful and marvelous. It was like nothing I ever felt. "Come with us" , the people said "We have a different system, a different way of life where we care about people. God is no respector of persons. He loves all people. We also believe we should not be respectors of persons".

I loved this message. A God who loved all men equally and did not put one above the other. A system that was like God. I was in heaven.

Many, many promises were made to me through preaching and teaching about God and his church and how things were so mush better, so much different here. My family was concerned about me. They felt I was falling for a line. Some of them called me brainwashed. I blew them all off. What did they know? They did not have the experience I had and I knew how they lived. I had a new life and I was whole hog, hook, line and sinker.

I began to see little things that bothered me, but the message was too good. The experience was too good. The promises were too good. We forged ahead my husband and I, convinced our calling was to take this message to the world. We worked very, very hard, starting a church, advertising, passing out tracts, teaching bible studies, paying for it all and getting no respect and very little help.

Meanwhile, we saw pastors sons given pastorates and silver spoons placed in their mouths. We decided they didn't know what we knew and we knew our message was too important to not pass it on. People are worthwhile no matter who they are and God loves them all. We forged ahead while pastors canvassed in our area and took people from us with promises of big choirs and lots of people. We forged ahead while we were warned not to steal any people from anyone. We forged ahead while we were told to contribute to every program so they could know we were cooperating with them. We forged ahead while they missed sending us Home Missions checks and refused to let us sell baked goods in their churches at Home Missions rallies. We forged ahead while I went to ladies retreats alone, believing the message. We forged ahead and paid the bills mostly alone.

We forged ahead while they told us our families were going to hell and while they made excuses for their own. We forged ahead while we believed the messages and they watered it down.

Finally, we believed we needed to move to a larger church because we were burned out. When we moved to the larger church, we found there were no income records and money spent on the previous pastors personal things. When we took this to the church, many did not believe us. Still, we forged ahead, believing the message. The district board shoved it all under the rug. Still we forged ahead, believing the message. But, the veil was being lifted.

In time, after a shocking personal revelation.....I stopped believing the message. It was about standards at first. I could not believe I had been lied to and duped for 16 years. Pants were not men's apparel. The Bible didn't say women couldn't cut their hair, etc.

But the core message to me stayed the same. God loves all people the same. Injustice should be fought against. We continued to fight, believing this message.

But, when I said standards were not biblical and mentioned all the injustices, I was told we are all human and that this is a human problem, not a UPC one. What? After all the promises I was made about us being the church? What? After all the times I was told that God is no respector of persons? What? After believing standards lies for years, I now find out I believed another one? That the church is just as guilty as everyone else regarding these things?

And indeed, I found out that the church is just as guilty. For as much as it postures itself as being God's people and as much as it says it is better than others and has "the truth", that it is a better way to live, that it is the right way, the only way, the only way not to burn in hell, I find out that it isn't true.

Yes, the problems are human problems. The veil has been lifted. The Wizard of Oz is actually behind the curtain just making things look powerful, incredible and amazing, when the God that they claim exclusive rights to, is actually everywhere and a real promoter of justice and truly, no respector of persons. He is the One I have been serving all along.

I don't go to church anymore. Not often anyway. I keep seeing Wizards behind curtains. I don't know if that will ever change. But, the God I believe in, the God that saved me, I believe that He still believes in justice, in love, in not being a respector of persons and that someday, He will make all this right. He is the God I love and the One I follow. I believe He is not a Wizard behind a curtain.

Re: What it is
 

Thank you!

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Thank you for writing.

Those that take the time to read may say you're bitter, painting with a broad brush....the cliches are always the same. But your words are loudly heard.

Thanks again.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

I struggle with the wizards behind the curtains too. It's difficult to separate God from the Christianity that's all over the place...the Christianity I refuse to have anything to do with.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Very interesting, I don't have much faith in the Machine , I do believe it is broken , and in need of repair..... But still there is hope God is different , He is not a man and can't lie. We have to please him,and Him alone .I am trying to learn that and how to do that. { according to what He teaches me in his word } Not based on religion, or tradition.The hard part is being looked at as sinners by those who say they are Christian [ apostolic ] because we don't fit in.

Re: What it is
 

ILG, I was feeling an overwhelming helplessness while reading this, 'til I got to the last paragraph. He's not a respector of person, dear....and He WILL make it all right! I believe you really desire that.

I'd like to offer a suggestion. Get off the computer, get alone and pray, and ask God to direct you to a church in your area. He never fails!

I've read your posts for several years now, and my heart has always gone out to you. I pray for you...

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But if God "leads" ILG to a "trinity" church, some of us would really think that was wrong.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Good words ILG. Do you think there is a role for churches in the salvation of the lost or have you given up on churches altogether?

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

ILG,

Beautiful, transparent post. I feel your pain, and while our course was somewhat different, I understand. I remember thinking to myself whenever doubt would appear "but these men who I love and respect believe and preach it, so it has to be true!".

We are now in a church that we absolutely love, but I will tell you something, transparency is what makes this church unique. Our pastor and assistant pastor make no bones about the fact that they are fallible, and so money records are always accessible and they are always wanting ideas.

I really appreciate what you wrote and I am praying for you, for your hurt, and for all of the people who let you down (my childhood and yours have much in common). God has plan, and often fallible people are a part of it, but through it all He adores us, and the fact that you are here and seeking cyber fellowship with us liberals is a great thing- YOU GO GIRL!!! I got your back

Re: What it is
 

some of you.

I have a friend that goes to a trinitarian church. The reason is she moved up north and went to an Apostolic church and told the pastor why she left the UPC she was attending down here. The issue was her disagreement over standards. She told the pastor she would comply with his teaching and obey, but the Pastor wanted nothing of it.

Now she goes to an AOG, still believes in baptism in Jesus name and Oneness.

On the other hand there is a newer UPC in the area and she has gotten to be friends with the Pastor. So far that pastor has not tried to rebuke her or convince her she is a sinner but has been very friendly in return.

Sorry but sometimes these kinds of threads to appear to be broadbrush in general, though that may not be the intent.

It's not synonymous with Apostolic or Oneness. It happens in Apostolic or Oneness churches. It also happens in Trinitarian churches

Re: What it is
 

I think I'm gonna change my name from "Mr. Smith" to "Prophet Smith".

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Thanks Mr. Smith. I am well aware of the "bitterness" accusations and I feel I am past all that. I really don't care anymore. It's just more smoke and mirrors.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Yes, indeed, it is.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

It's hard at first, but it gets easier in time. I never fit in anyway, and many never have. Really, that's a large part of what I am writing about. After a while, you kind of give up trying to fit in. What are people trying to fit into anyway and is it worth it? Those are the real questions.

Re: What it is
 

I appreciate the prayers, but I'll leave the advice, as well intended as I know it is. ;)

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LOL! For sure!

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Yes, I guess maybe. But I do not feel at all called to be involved in it anymore. I don't understand all the ins and outs of all that and don't claim to, which is one reason I don't try and tell people how to run their lives. I strongly felt and believed I was supposed to be where I was back when I was doing the things I was doing (although I question a lot of that now). I think people largely have to find their own way and figure things out for themselves, which is why I would not tell people to quit church or anything like that. On the flipside, I expect the same respect for my journey and choices.

Re: What it is
 

And? Did u get it all?
I said these kinds of threads appear to generalize. That's my honest opinion. I didn't say she did, but most often that is how they appear. It may not be the initial poster, but some later responding in generalizations. I was in fact respondig to what you said.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Thanks Pro31:28. I appreciate your words. I'm glad you are happy where you are.

Re: What it is
 

Yeah. We were going to a trinitarian church for a while. I kept seeing the wizard behind the curtain there too. That's my point. It really is a people problem. The sad part was all the promises that were made about being special to God and all that. We were no more special than the next guy.

Re: What it is
 

ILG, I just read this thread! Once again, my heart goes out to you and your dilemma. It really IS a people problem. Not everyone is nice.

I'll say a prayer for you. If nothing else I hope you find a bit of peace in your current turmoil.

Bless you! :thumbsup

Re: What it is
 

Umm, what current turmoil?

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

It has to be troubling when those who are to be our spiritual leaders are exposed as disingenuous or even worse frauds themselves. I have not experienced anything that extreme, and I am sorry for you.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Well, it happened quite a long time ago. We left five years ago and it was very hard to do, but I am so much better off and so much happier. I very much enjoy writing and I write about what I know and what people can relate to.

I'm glad you have not experienced anything that extreme but many have. I will take all the prayers I can get, I am certainly not opposed to that.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Great post! I didn't read any bitterness or vitriol. You were honest, straight forward and to the point. The point is that "what God ordains, man profanes!" The problem is that too many men don't believe that. They believe that THEY are ordained and therefore are God's mouthpiece and are not to be questioned etc. Certainly not all and hopefully not most. But unfortunately, this story is not isolated to ILG. :D

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

The earth is the Lord's and all that is in it. God is at work in the whole earth, all are His creation, ultimately He will not lose any.

Seekers always run up against the people problem, eventually the only answer is one's own relationship with God. Religion will condemn this fact, because the house of cards comes crashing down when one comes to this true.

I go to church, but it is a really different community of believers, flawed, but seeking to follow Jesus. We don't believe that we are the only Christians, rather we are Christians only.

Re: What it is
 

God will never lead someone to a trinity church....Only Sam will.:toofunny

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Thanks, MOW, glad you enjoyed it! I appreciate the positive feedback!

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Good grief. So you know everything little thing that God will do? I'm sorry. I just get tired of this sort of attitude. I guess you must be amongst the very small group who are going to be in Heaven for eternity, eh?

You know, I very rarely ever post this sort of come-back to someone. Maybe I'm just cranky tonight.......... oh well, I think I'll leave it here anyway. I saw that you put the smiley at the end. So I am really hoping that that was your attempt at humor. If so, I apologize for jumping on your case.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Margie, I think Mikey is messin with us!

Re: What it is
 

relax, Margies3, I was not offended by that.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Ok, thanks, guys, for the correction. Mike, please accept my apologies. Must be those female hormones kicking in. Oh wait! I'm too old for hormones. Those are for 20 year olds, right? LOL Maybe I'm just overly tired. Good night.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Algae,

I am getting ready for church so have only had time to read your posts and just a few of other peoples responses.

First of all your family's history has made me once again so thankful for being raised in a good Christian home. My dad was such a godly man I had no idea until after he died when I was 13 that in his younger days he had been a drinker who got into fights in bars, etc. I just could not imagine it.

I fully understand your disillusionment with a lot of what goes on in church. There is plenty to be upset about. However anytime human beings are involved there is going to be a lot of imperfection.

That imperfection includes duplicty, selfishness, ignorance, deceit, lying, stealing, etc. However within one of these imperfect institutions there is almost always people who are good, honest hearted, and doing their best to do what is right.

What I fear about your current situation is that it is something I have seen quite a bit in my 51 years of living and right now am dealing with it in one of my own grown children. It seems that since there are no perfect churches with perfect people in them you just are not going to go to any. I know and respect your intellect so I have to believe that deep down you know this is not right.

We have a responsibility to put ourselves in the best possible church so that we can submit to be taught from the five fold ministry. However no church is perfect and we must realize that going in.

I believe the enemy of our souls uses the faults of the church to cause bitterness and weariness where he can and then those things to cause people to give up on church. Satan does not want you to be spirtually fed. You have to remember that is his goal.

Bottom line is that you find the best church you can with a pastor you believe is upstanding (although still impefect) and plug yourself in. Pray for the imperfect saints and win new honest hearted ones to outnumber the ones who are just playing church and not really living christian lives.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Hey CC1. Thanks for the feedback. I think you may have missed the irony in my post. The irony is in how people say the church is so much better than "the world" and then when things aren't perfect, people fall back on the "well we're only human". Well.....the church holds itself to a higher standard and then, in my experience, falls far short. So, I am not seeing church attendance to be gaining me anything at this point in my life. That's not to say some people don't gain anything. I am not saying people should quit. I'm just saying I am not seeing the point for myself so much. It is a effort in frustration.

I appreciate your compliment about my intellect, but I don't "know" that not going to church isn't right. It feels right to me. In fact, it feels great except for I miss the idea of community. (I say "idea" because the experience of community always fell far short.) Will I never return to church? I'm sure I will visit on occasion. I don't know that I will ever be a member anywhere or attend regularly again. What are you afraid of with your grown children not attending? My only fear about my grown children is that their children will grow up with a value void, but perhaps there is a better way to fill that value void. So far, church has not impressed me with filling value voids. God has done a pretty good job, but the men behind the curtains just keep pulling switches and making things roar with electrical equipment. And when you say something to them they get all offended like you should know better. They too often say and do not do.

Anyway CC1, thanks. I feel content for the first time in many years. I am failing to see how that is a bad thing.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

ILG - I feel bad for the pain you experienced while in the ministry. I wish there was a way to "make it better" - but realize that there is nothing any of us can do.

I do have one question: In your refusal to go to church, or rather to become a part of a "community" or "body" of believers, what do you do with the scripture that says "forsake not the assembling of yourselves together" ?

Just curious. May God bless you!

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

Well there's a few things that could be done to explain it differently than is popularly explained. One explanation is in how a person defines forsaking an assembling together. Another is that the male Jews were required to go to the temple once a year and that's all. For me, it's basically irrelevant. I don't view this in the context it was once taught and I don't take the Bible so literally. Of course, if a person believes that it means you have to go to church three times a week or you are betraying God, then, by all means, a person wouldn't want to skip church or not be a member somewhere.

Re: The Wizard Behind the Curtain
 

I appreciate this post so much, CC1. You just have a way with words! I hope ILG will take them to heart. Not only do we have ourselves to think of, but we have a HUGE responsibility to our children and grandchildren. Without God and the church, where would we be?

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That is a lot of information about a home. My mother won her younger sisters to Jesus. They and my mom won the youngest boys. The youngest boys won the older sons. The older sons started Sunday afternoon prayer meetings and eventually won grandad and about 40 others in a small community to Christ. I don't think teenage boys are known for small group prayer meetings. Grandad was a violent drunk. I never heard a word about it from my mom. she took the brunt of it I found out but she forgave him.
Grandad became a big soul winner after age 54 repentence. I learn about this stuff at funerals because my mother only repeated some of the worst stuff in prayer to the Heavenly Father.
Bad to the bone grandad has nearly 40 sons, daughters sons in law grand children and descendents in full time ministry, missionary work or teaching at bible colleges.. There are over 200 offspring. Grandad would after conversion visit bars, beer joints and saloons and witness.

There is healing in the blood.