Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Anyone here believe that The Church, The Body of Christ, is made up of both trinity and oneness believers?

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I used to believe all trinitarians were going to hell. I no longer believe that, I believe both groups will have those who make it and those who don't.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Absolutely! And, what Jason Badejo said.

Now we will be marked as liberals fur sure, But, then again, with my beard, I have already learned to live with tag.:grampa

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I must say, this forum was the first place I saw "All trinitarians are going to hell until they obey Acts 2:38." When I saw it, I was like what?!

As for the OP, I believe both groups have true and false believers in them. Jesus said "I have other sheep not of this fold..." I know the quote is out of context, but hope you get my drift...

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I really don't see such distinctions as even being relevant when considering, "Who is in the Body of Christ?"

That question is answered with, "Those who Jesus has saved."

Whether or not this assembly is capable of dotting every "i" and crossing every theological "t" when formulating the creeds on their respective bumper stickers is another matter.

Jesus saves, and not your theology. Though at times, going from "bad and incompetent theology" to "good theology" might seem like a salvational experience. Still, it is Jesus Who saves and not we ourselves (Titus 3:5).

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

:grampa:grampa:grampa:grampa:grampa:grampa

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Yes, I believe that the church, The Body of Christ, is made up of both trinity and oneness believers but isn't limited to only those folks. The body of Christ is also made up of folks who didn't even know there was a Christ.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

:nah

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I believe this.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

We will be fair and allow you to show us scripture that supports that.
While you are at it, Tell us how many times you have seen people that were born again that didn't know what born again meant.

Now Obama is famous for making outrageous claims. He repeats what Oprah says.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

AND those in between... count me in that affirmative vote :thumbsup

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Unless People accept Christ as their saviour they are not part of the body of Christ. I would challenge you to provide a biblical basis for your statement I have bolded. I can provide you with plenty supporting my view.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

You know CC1, you always have those trying to add to the Bible on both sides of a discussion-- lib and con.

Seekerman's statement makes me wonder how does he interpret the words of Jesus when He said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the ....."

It's not even important that I finish the quote-- I don't think the Bible is important to Seekerman.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

The Christ was only revealed 2000 years ago and then to only a very very small population of the earth. Prior to that there is no mention of the Christ to the billions who lived during those pre-Christ Old Testament epochs nor a single verse of scripture of anyone calling upon the Christ as savior during those epochs.

While most Christians are Israel-centric, one should realize the population of the world was much larger than the relatively small portion of the middle east. There were billions of individuals prior to, and subsequent to, the introduction of the Christ 2000 years ago who lived and died never hearing anything of the theology of the Old and New Testaments which included those who did not live in the geographical area of the bible.

Those billions of individuals who lived never hearing of the Christ aren't just cast away to God's torture chamber. The redemption provided by the Christ is much more than redeeming a relatively few people who have the advantage of being born into some semblance of Christianity.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

The Jews were Gods chosen people before Christ. Since they found themselves unworthy, the gospel was taken to the Gentiles.
Our comand is to be soul winners.
You have been asked to provide scripture for your universal unitarian claims.
Name a person that was saved and never heard of Jesus.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I believe that the average Trinitarian believer often interprets the Godhead in a Oneness fashion. This is because they READ THE BIBLE. However, those who understand the Trinity and entirely embrace it are seeing God through the stained glass windows of Tradition. I'm not going to condemn all of them to Hell, but I do believe they'll have a few surprises upon entering those pearly gates! lol (We will too.) ;)

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

The key phrase there is "before Christ". Except for the relative handful which lived during Jesus' time, the Jews, nor any of the other billions of individuals who lived during the 4000 years before Christ, never heard of the Christ. Billions who have lived after the introduction of the Christ have never heard of the Christ either.

According to the bible, God had introduced a less than perfect and unworkable plan of salvation to the jews through Moses...it wasn't about them being unworthy, it was about a flawed plan. According to the bible He corrected that less than perfect plan with a new and improved plan 2000 years ago after billions of individuals, both jews and non-jews had lived and died apart from knowledge of the Christ.

Moses never heard of the Christ and His plan of salvation which was introduced 2000 years after his death, did he?

The list would include billions who are saved and never heard of the Christ.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Tell me how David accepted Christ, was baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues please. How on earth did David come to the Father through the Christ when the Christ was to be presented to the world 1000 years later?

Some of it is, some of it isn't. The bible sure ain't God in my life.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I will hint at 3 answers. David was under the law and the sacrifice of animals by the priest pushed the sins to the cross for another year.
Jesus commented at the Crosss on fulfilling the actual covering for sins of saints in the past.
Just read the Psalms and David repents. cleanse me of my iniquity....
The old covenant ended at calvary.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

David died without ever hearing of the Christ. You asked for a name and I gave it to you.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Salvation has nothing to do with trinity or oneness.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Who said it did???

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


You need a home bible study.

Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The son was manifest to us after the birth of Jesus. God spoke to David thru men of God.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

So the age-old question....

What about the mom in the remote part of the earth who raised her children with great care and supported her family with every ounce of strength she ever had. She went to her grave having never heard the name of Christ.

So the question is, will she burn in the flames of hell forever?

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

That is we we are soul winners. When we teach and prepare missionaries, you have your rock music and time that you spend castigating the UPCI.
Sitting in seeker friendly churches.. 2 prints on the pew.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Well, obviously you're not getting the job done because the mom is still dying without hearing of Christ. So can someone besides this nimrod, who can actually put together a reasonable thought, express an opinion?

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Romans 1 deals with ALL of these arguments.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Arguments? Who's arguing? Can you explain how Romans 1 deals with this?

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Romans 1 deals with God's personal revelation to all people through creation, it also talks about the Gentiles knowing God, but decidely rejecting Him and slipping further and further into idolatry. However even in a pagan soceity one can discern God by cration and conscience if they are truly searching for Him. Furthermore God knows the hearts of all, and he is able to reveal himself to the heathen, as in the case of Abraham. (Of course the Arbraham argument is not directly mentioned in Romans 1, but it is an example of God revealing himself to a pagan).

Anyway Romans 2 continues on the thought of Romans 1 and talks about the Gentiles [pagans] being a law unto themselves, and thus being judged accordingly.

I do believe that whatever judgment God gives will be just in all cases. I'll let Him judge according to his perfect knowledge, and I will continue to uphold the revelation that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, and there is no salvation in any other.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

"Yes they deserve to die and I hope they burn in hell" Wait that was the Samuel L Jackson coming out in me. Sorry.

Actually I think that it is a good thing God is the judge and not me. I would say yes the lady would be in Heaven, but I am glad that God get that choice because I don't want that on my conscience.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

agree
:grampa

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

According to the teaching of
Bishop G.T. Haywood,
S.G. Norris of the Apostolic Bible Institute
Clyde Haney of Western Apostolic Bible College
the answer to that would be "no" as long as she walked in all the light she had.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

How can Jesus the Christ can be savior of the world when the vast majority of mankind from creation to the present have never heard of Jesus the Christ?

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I'm not sure everyone would see Romans 1 & 2 addressing those issues directly, however let me ask you this....are you saying there's a chance, then, that since God's judgment will be just, that some who do not know Christ will not be in hell?

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

And what if the light she had was Islam?

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

IF the light was Islam God will be the judge. I will just fine and happy that when I make it to heaven and there are some Muslims and others there that will be just fine with me.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

Now you're talking way beyond most on this forum!! And I agree.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I Tim. 4:10, it is about what Jesus did, not all the doctrines of men.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

It is not Islam nor Christianity that saves the world, these are all doctrines defined by man. It is He that created world, He has taken responsibility for that creation. It is He that has saved the world, that salvation is not yet complete in our "time", but it is in HIS.

Re: Trinity and Oneness in The Church?
 

I can't answer that question from God's standpoint because I don't know that woman's heart like God does.

When Paul went to Athens (Acts 17:15-34, probably August AD 50) it is reported that his spirit was stirred within him when he saw the whole city given to idolatry. He went to the synagogue as was his custom since he was a Rabbi and could teach there. He also talked to people in the market/agora. His message in the agora was twofold --Iesous and anastasia (Jesus and the resurrection). Some thought he was teaching a new male and female deity. He was brought to the Areopagus or Mars Hill, a large rock 370 feet high NW of Athens to investigate these "new gods" that Paul seemed to be preaching. Paul had seen altars and monuments to many gods all around him in the city. He even saw one to "the unknown god" (agnosto theo) and he took that as his text. He told them that they were very superstitious/religious and that he was going to tell them about that unknown god they were worshipping. He began there and quoted a few of their poets. They weren't Jews with Scriptures so he couldn't start there. He explained that they didn't realize it but they were worshipping the one true God as "the unknown god." He went on to explain that this unknown god was the creator of all; He didn't need us to carry Him around and feed Him because He was the giver of life and breath; that He is everywhere present all around us; that He made all humankind from one blood; that we are to seek Him; that since we are His offspring He would look like us -not like some kind of an animal; that He had given us freedom but now it was time to seek Him because He was going to raise all humankind from the dead and judge them just like He had raised His son from the dead.

Well, it is my understanding that Paul believed those folks were actually worshiping the one true God as the unknown god. If that was true back then, would it be too great a stretch to say that if a person was taught that there is only one God and His name is Allah, and that person was trying to worship the one true God instead of idols or many gods, the person was really worshiping the one true God in ignorance?