Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movement
 

The culture is moving us to enforce social justice. How much do conservative Christians know about the various forms of the movement?

Glenn Beck exposes it.

Of course the liberals on this site despise Glenn Beck because he exposes a lot of pretention.

Social and economic justice are not charity.

Rick Warren says we need to promote social justice to be more relevant. His seeker friendly model uses social justice to attract audience.

Social justice is behiind socialized medicine. Social justice thinking is behind the calling out people that oppose Mosques certain places and gay marriage as people being bigots or racist.

The scripture has great coverage of charity.

Who is behind this movement? How does it fit into the endtimes?

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Social justice is a code word which means take from those who have worked hard and give it to those who are unwilling to work hard.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

We need to be careful not to paint with a broad brush here. Remember, social justice movements brought us women's rights to work and vote, vanquished child labor, brought us safety standards in the work place, brought us liveable wages, and most importantly... the weekend. lol

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Not true. It was legislation .

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Need to get your stories straight. Unions claim credit for the same list. Unions are not the social justice movement at all.
The unions and the social justice folks have the same enemies?

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

While I disagree with movements that are Christian-based but solely driven by social justice, there's no denying the reality of adequate theology behind "defending the poor, disenfranchised, widows, orphans, powerless," etc. Anyone who says otherwise needs to do some reading.

If Glen Beck is noticing many of his opponents use social justice to combat some of the Republican/Conservative ideas, then he needn't take on those who believe in social justice, stick with taking on their ideas and explain why they won't work. Beck telling people to run from churches that believe in being involved in social justice is more sickening to me. I know he wouldn't like the someone putting a theological metric to his LDS faith.

Coadie, you told Aquila it was legislation. That's silly. Legislation doesn't create itself, draft itself, get enough public support to be important all on it's own.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

You mentioned charity. That is different than social justice.

By the way, I understand legislation. I have also read the constitution. We are endowed by the Creator the right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness.

It doesn't say right to an equal share of prosperity.
Actually Mormoms are very capitalistic. They are distinctly against socialism.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Modern Mormons might be, but their founders certainly weren't. lol

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

I agree.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Coadie... I'm not big on Unions... but I am in one and I know the history of labor laws. If not for those fighting for social justice in this area you're kids would still be working in sweat shops. So get real.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Labor unions are just one element of the social justice movement. And I'm not to big on their function today.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

If one researches the social justice movments of England and the late 1800's in the United States, you'll find they were inspired by Christians with a national vision of social compassion. Sadly, secularists took their vision and twisted it into the monstrocity you see today. Labor unions actually had a chaplain and set Memorial Day meetings where they gathered for the spiritual good of the American worker.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

That is not true about kids. The drop in family size and automation replaced the need for child labor. It is funny that my experience comes from knowing the history from the academic side. I don't rely on word of mouth from union shills. My experience is on the side of arbitration and representing the railroads and not the unions.
Let's take the topic back to social justice. Unions are not much of the conversation.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

coadie, what profession are you in that allows you so much time to be on the internet?

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95bcEb1rV18

Al Sharpton talks it up. He drives an Escalade. Not very equal.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Kinda the opposite of the scriptures?

Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to Him, 2and He began to teach them, saying:

3Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

5Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness,

for they will be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the sons of God.

10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Social justice makes a lot of demands.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Social Justice is slavery with religious garments on. Any charity that is forced is not charity but slavery -- or theft. Take your pick. But what do you expect from a group of people who want to help people with other people's money?

I have no problem helping my fellow man. I do it often. I have a problem with some idiot with utopian stars in his/her eyes using a gun to steal my money and give it to someone else... after taking an 80% cut, of course.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

For the record, that also includes stealing my money to help others obtain democracy, or obtain foreign oil, or any other form of government intervention.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

I agree that we need social justice. It's just that it probably should not be government sponsored except for police and judges and the like. I think social programs are mostly a waste.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Exactly... except that I don't think there should be any government sponsored anything... if we as normal people did what the government does -- we'd be considered criminal.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Unions are not what they were when my father was in one. Now they are corrupt arms of the democrat party and are helping to destroy the economy.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Well, yes. Take Bernie Madoff, for example. He is sitting in prison for his Ponzi scheme, but the government has bigger ponzi scheme's than Bernie had.

However, the government has to do some things. I don't think we can be government-less. How much government we should have....I am not sure. But way less than we do now.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

That is a gross misapplication of scripture. Nowhere in those verses do I find Jesus saying that we should steal from those who have worked hard to support the lazy and irresponsible.

Of course we are to show charity to the elderly, the weak, the handicapped, and even those are are simply going through hard times. But know where in scripture will you find that we should support those who are lazy and those who have been irresponsible.

In Matthew 25 Jesus gave talents to three different men, and by liberal standards he was not fair about it. He gave some more then the others. He ended up taking the one from the irresponsible man and gave it to the responsible man. Mean old Jesus left that man with nothing.

And you will never find in scripture Jesus supporting anyone being forced to be charitable. That would be stealing.

The term "social justice" has taken on a new meaning than what it once had. The liberal democrats have stolen the term and now it simply means stealing from those who have worked hard and give it to the lazy and irresponsible so they will show up on election day and vote for them.

This is destroying America and creating a country of lazy idiots who thinks the party will last forever. However, we are now getting to a point to where the lazy and unproductive are becoming more in number then the hard working. 45% of Americans now depend on some kind of support from the government. This country is on a quick path to destruction and it seems as though people are to stupid to recognize what the problem is.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

You are correct. The scriptures don't show the social justice agenda. That is why I posted what Jesus told us to do and be.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

I'm not sure how you equate all those who promote social justice as socialists. Seems to be a great leap of logic, coadie.

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Correct, they served a purpose and now are just as much part of the problem today. But they were deliverance for the industrial workers.

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This isn't about Al Sharpton, nor is he the sum total of all who believe in Social Justice. Many would argue that though some of Sharpton's efforts have been noble, they are muddled together with multiple attention-seeking agendas.

I also think it's hypocritical to get filthy rich off being a charity coordinator.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Politically, I agree. So maybe we need to clarify if this is about politics or social justice? They sometimes meet in the street, but they are polar opposites.

The way a collective nation takes care of its disenfranchised, poor and minorities is important. If there's a voice for the Amos' of our day, it's to support policies that both make good sense, and are the best for making sure the powerful don't trample over the powerless.

Again, the judgement of God against Israel was constantly over this issue. Even the "sins of Sodom!"

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

It's not stealing if it's a Democracy. An unpopular policy can be appealed. An unpopular idea can be vetoed by those representatives you and I voted for. Is it truly "stealing?"

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

I mostly agree.

However, we are no longer a communal society where we take care of our own. We are a world of cities, a world of corporations and profits. If completely unchecked, the powerful can dominate and oppress the powerless. Speaking for justice on a governmental level doesn't mean once must support policies that don't make sense or that turn charity into an obligatory matter (though the Bible certainly had obligatory governmental measures to care for the poor). It does mean to be a voice of justice on each issue, no matter the political grandstanding behind the issues.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

I don't care what the "popular" vote is, if I don't want to pay for an idea and the money is taken from me using force (through threat of assault or kidnapping) then it is theft. So, since I don't agree with the popular social justice.. then the stripping of my money from my possession without my consent is stealing.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

It always amazes me that this is how some, who are apparently far-removed from the situation, view those who are recipients of charity. You've bought the lie and drank the kool-aid that poverty is only a surface-level epidemuc, that all homeless people are drunks (because those are the obvious ones you see in public), that all families needing assistance are lazy bums, etc.... Please, study poverty. I urge. I plead with you. Take a social science class on it. I really think you'll at least reconsider your perspectives.

Matthew 25:31-46
It's certainly not a proof-text for how a government should work, but most definitely an implied command that we can harmonize with many of his other teachings, as well as the attitude of GOD in the OT stories.

Roll up your sleeves and get involved in the slums of your neighborhoods. Your perspective of lazy, unproductive bums will probably change and your heart will break for the things that break God's heart.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

It's not stealing. You must define stealing.

If you don't like the Democracy you live in, maybe you should consider living on a remote island with a better system of government.

In the meantime, if you don't like the policy of taxation for social programs, then vote for you guy. There's an endless supply of candidates.

As far as "assault" and "kidnapping" what are you referring to?

Using your logic, I shouldn't have to pay any taxes, despite living in a representative government. I can find countless issues I don't agree with to justify such action. Let's see that meet the Romans 13 criteria though.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

It really isn't When we read the books from the socialists over time. It is very obvious.
There are long lists of authors on these topics. Take some classes in sociology and watch how the people are set up and shaped in their thing over time.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

How do you define stealing?

I take it you are not an accountant.


Unjust enrichment.
one party is unjustly enriched at the expense of another

west law
we are not in a true democracy.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Socialists have a different starting point. They think the authority of use and application of assets and money is vested in the society. The decisions on the use iof money and assets is not under the authority of the "owner".
Social justice means catching up for previous shortcomings in equal distribution of money.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Well, yes, I suppose that could happen and probably needs to in the environment we are in today (meaning big government). But, I think we are no longer a communal society because of this. Which came first the chicken or the egg and would people be more communal with less government?

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Very good point.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

Uh... I've taken classes in sociology :)

Everything you said here reinforces the "leap in logic" factor

Socialism is an extreme. It also is an idea of how government should work. It's amoral in theory. It's amazing to me how we view it as evil. Communism, the logical governing-next step carries with it more reason to be skeptical of its moral value as a system of government. While I think Socialism is a faulty method of governing and can even prove disasterous, neither do I believe it's evil as an idea. Would you befriend a brother who believed in the Socialistic model of government, Coadie?

Back to the point, connecting social justice to communism is indeed a drastic leap in logic, and very much unfounded.

Re: Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movem
 

It's a REPRESENTATIVE government, Coadie.
You have to work with what you have, work to create new Constitution or decide if you still want to live here. I'd hate to see you suffer the agony of living in a system that causes you such pain.