Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cancer
 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/20...est=latestnews

He says no deathbed conversion for him.

He will convert soon afterward however. He may cling to his unbelief now, but he will soon be in the presence of God who says He is a refining fire.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

He has an argument with his brother Peter

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Hitchens.html

Christopher is an atheist. I am a believer. He once said in public: "The real difference between Peter and myself is the belief in the supernatural.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

God is a refining fire. God is also the Judge. Face the Refining fire now or face Eternal fire then. It's your choice

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Jude 1:7, says that Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them are "suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Yet, this entire region has been underwater for at least thousands of years. There's no "fire" in sight anywhere - "eternal" or otherwise. What does this "example" do for the concept of an "Eternal Lake of Fire" in which the damned are burned and tormented forever?

Just wondering myself, I have no hard and fast position on the idea of "Eternal Torment" for the damned.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

It's spelled Hitchens. Christopher Hitchens.

He's not one of my favorite people but he does have the courage of his convictions. He underwent waterboarding a couple of years ago and came out of the experience with the opinion that it was "unquestionably torture." On the other hand, he was very much a supporter of the war in Iraq. Plus he made the choice to become a US citizen a few years ago!

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

I checked a book out by him once, but I couldn't get into it. But, I do agree, he does have the courage of his convictions it would seem.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

I like Hutch... I mean Hitch. He's one of those Liberals who got "mugged" on 9/11. He has come across as a rascal at times, but then again, he's sort of an entertainer playing a role. Only in his case, the "role" is being the rascal that he is.

Today is "Pray For Christopher Hitchins Day." As an atheist he has probably gotten more people into a moment a prayer today than all of Sunday's preachers have done. There's lots of irony around this man. I wish him well and pray for his health.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Could it have more to do with the permanent destruction instead of a fiery play called hell?

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

There are some times in life when having the courage of your convictions is NOT a good thing. This is definitely one of them.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

I stand corrected, spell check messed my title up, IT IS Hitchens!! He is very interesting to listen to about the political sense. His view of religion is probably pretty accurate in many quarters!!

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

I consider Hitchins a top evangelist for atheism and evolutionism.

God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything


The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Oh, I don't know...If I were in Hitchens' position and I heard all the hellfire and damnation coming my way, I'd be saying, "What, are you threatening me?"

If God is so impotent that he has to rely on threats to get people to believe...oh, wait, that's for the hellfire thread, I'll take it over there.

But I am thankful I'm not Chris Hitchens, I don't know that I'd be so charitable to people who are basically telling me that after I draw my last breath I'm headed off to a fiery place of torment.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Perhaps to you it isn't. To him it is everything.

Really, there is no reason for him to become a Christian before he dies. He doesn't believe in God, so the motivational fear of hell is not there for him. He can pass away in peace.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Hitchens is definitely, one of the top, but Dawkins is the top dog, in the show.
Hitchens is dying of cancer as the result of his medicating himself with alcohol and nicotine. It is sad, he is a man that has been inbittered by the Roman Catholic Church, and religion in general.

We must all decide if we will live focused on the evil in the world or if we will focus on the good, the righteous, and the beautiful!! Hitchens, I am afraid refuses to look beyond the former.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

I don't think Christopher has peace, he seems to just be resigned to hopelessness.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Like I said, for most of religion Hitchens had it about right.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

The Creator is not an eternal torturer of that creation! He is better at creation than that, creation has required some corrections and "refining" along the way, but He will get it completely right before He finishes!!

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Of course he has peace in dying. If you don't believe in a hell, dying isn't that big a deal.

I am sure he wishes he had more time, like all do, but as for dying, there is no punishment that he can see. Can't get more peace than that.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

What you call refining, some would call torturing in the flames of hell.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

LOL! I like your spunk, Geekette. :thumbsup

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

The book I read part of seemed very cynical. If I am going to like what someone writes, I want them to be coming from a place of peace. Come to think of it, that's why I don't like a lot of ultra-con stuff. :)

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

I disagree with this characterization!!:grampa
Though refining can be painful, I don't believe torture would be correct.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

The thought of dying without any hereafter would seem to be hopelessness to me, if he has such peace, why has he medicated himself with alcohol, to the point of causing an early death. The man has not been at peace, he is a man full of turmoil and fear. JMHO

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Of course you disagree with that characterization. You don't want to think of God as someone who tortures people. However, the verses say different.

The rich man lifted up his eyes in torment, he said that he was "in anguish in this flame".

Mark says that the lawbreakers will be thrown "into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." He also says it is better to cut off an offending body part than to go to the place where the fire shall never be quenched, "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched".

If one wanted to torture someone for their misdeeds, that sounds a lot like how they would do it.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

It might seem hopeless to you, apparently it does not to him.

As for the peace, I am sure he has not had peace in his life, which is why he drinks a lot. The peace I was referring to is towards his death. To him, he does not have anything to worry about, thus he has peaces towards that.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Agreed!:thumbsup

Yet, I doubt that he is that assured, he has focused and fought the teaching of his childhood in the RCC, so he must have some uncertainty. But that of course is conjecture on my part.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

You do great violence to the scriptures, my friend.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

I don't think I do. Was anything I posted incorrect? Was anything I posted not in the Bible?

Regardless of what you or I may want to think, those scriptures clearly state that God will severely punish those who do not believe in Him. If you want to believe in the Bible's God, you also have to believe that God will put the majority of His creation in a place where they will burn and be tormented for all of eternity.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

I don't have to believe any such thing, and I do believe in the Bible. I also, believe we must rightly divide the word of the scriptures. When the interpretation defiles the character and nature of the loving Heavenly Father, we must dig deeper. And no, they do not CLEARLY teach that God is a torturer of the very Creation He brought into existence.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

What else can you call Hell then? I know you like to think of it as refining, but it is clearly a place to punish those who don't believe in Him.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Is it forever? If it's forever, there's no redemptive value in it and, in point of fact, it smacks of vengeance.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

According to the Bible, the fires are never quenched, the fires are eternal, and "the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever."

If you are going to believe in the Bible as infallible, then you must believe in those words also.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Well, there are much more Godlike things that we could call it. If you can remove the traditional (dark ages view) lens, you will then have opportunity to see more clearly it's purpose.

Hyperbolic language is the norm in the original languages, study its use in the OT, and the fact that the language does not actually mean endless. Nor does it mean literal fire. The use of actual fire in the OT was in temporal judgment that was the result of folks cup getting full of wickedness and the harvest of that evil returning to them according to their sowing.

Such as Hitler, and Saddam & Sons, and those aroung them. Their cups got full and the return on their sowing took them out. Yet this is all temporal judgment, not their final end.

Study God's response to Israel when they begin to offer their children in burnt offering to Molech. He rebukes them, and says He NEVER commanded, nor even considered such a thing. Yet, we are to believe He will do that to folks endlessly, in a custom made torture chamber???? The truth is in the scriptures, we are called to dig it out.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

If Hell is not a final punishment, then there is no reason to live for God. If you will not be punished infinitely for not believing in God, then as long as you can withstand the finite punishment, you are good to go.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

If Godly living is not a better way to live, why would God desire it for us? You have to change your view of punishment, God's "punishment" is for your good, and for eternal effect.

WHY MUST ONE BE PUNISHED INFINITELY???? That is incoherent. Do you have children?

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

Because that is what the Bible clearly alludes to. If you are going to follow and believe in God, then His Bible clearly infers that hell is an eternal punishment.

Re: Atheists Christopher Hutchins Dying with Cance
 

There are many of us that disagree with that understanding, and we are growing.