Cults
 

What is a cult
Please share some examples.

In the last 2 days, I have seen some churches associated with the cult label.

Re: Cults
 

Warning signs of a cult:
Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
The group/leader is always right.
The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

This is just one of several lists. For the last point, I would mention that there are churches (and I don't just mean OP) that believe their local church is the best or only way to heaven, not just that their belief system is correct. A church that doesn't point the way to Jesus but to themselves, could be considered as having this warning sign. It would be like having two churches in town that believed the same doctrine, but having one stand up and say that everyone in the other church was going to Hell for not going to their church, or calling themselves the only real church in town.

Not every warning sign on a list needs to be present for a church to be considered a cult, and not every church that meets all the criteria is probably actually a cult. However, churches that exhibit these symptoms often can become unhealthy, abusive or cult-like.

Re: Cults
 

There has been a lot of difficulty on this forum on this topic (in the past) because of the difficulty in nailing down a conclusive definition for the word. It seems the word has picked up unique meaning by certain groups or people.

So I would add some symptoms of what some may loosely define as cult-like or cultic:

1) Uniform adherence to strict and rigid rules
2) Religious in nature
3) Extremely charismatic leader, praised w/out balance, given special authority to be a final voice of authority on spiritual matters. Criticism against this person is frowned on. He is addressed with accolades are special titles. Authoritarian and w/out any accountability in his/her life.
4) Separation from family and other individuals who aren't part of this religious group.
5) Difficulty to leave. Pressure, manipulation, loss of friendships/relationships. Threats of divorce in marital situations, job pressures if applicable, etc. - There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6) Members kept together by guilt. It keeps them from wandering too far.
7) No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
8) Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
9) The group/leader is always right.
10) The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

And sometimes, there is no meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, few to no diversity among decision-makers regarding church budget. Sometimes family-operated instead of overseen by a church-board -- and when there is a church board, it's usually only for looks - a weak board, not really functioning in that role.

Then there are symptoms of people:

1) Extreme obsessiveness regarding the leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2) Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group continues and deepens.
3) Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
4) Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
5) Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

(like above, with some help by Rick Ross -- and as I typed this I thought about situations I was aware of as well)

Re: Cults
 

Some instances I've seen personally:
A pastor tells people they should date or cannot.
Pastoral permission required for marriage. Those who marry without permission are considered backslid.
People who leave are shunned completely-members are told not to talk to them, not even to say hi in the store.
Leadership spies (or has others spy) on members.
Leadership discusses individuals and their shortcomings-by name-from the pulpit
Leadership insinuates things that aren't true or labels members and former members in intentionally detrimental ways (backslider, homosexual, Jezebel, adulterer) without any solid evidence of these things.
Members are commanded to give much more than 10% and are told they are greedy, carnal, and evil, and that they don't really love God, if they don't or can't.
The response to questions is "don't you believe me? I'm your pastor! If you don't believe me, get out and go find someone you can believe!"

Again these things don't mean a church is a cult. But a church that allows these things is often unhealthy and does exhibit cult like tendencies.

Re: Cults
 

R Ross is somewhat of a self declared expert. I see the use of the word cult when people don't like a group. I also suspect many UPC members if asked can't name the General secretary of the UPC.

Re: Cults
 

Here is another list that you could use that was founded by ICSA in 1979:

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
The group is preoccupied with making money.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

Re: Cults
 

And the New England Institute of Religious Study's definition of aberrant or unhealthy groups:
I. Scripture Twisting.
This is the most important distinctive from which all other distinctives flow. Usually there is a deficient concept of Church history or theological categories. Consequently Scripture is taken out of context, carelessly applied, and used to justify wrong conclusions (prooftexting).
Doctrine developed from historical books of the Bible. Here, the historical books of the Old and New Testaments (Exodus, Kings, Samuel, parts of Gospels, Acts, etc.) are used to derive authoritative doctrine for the Church today.
Contextual chaos. Verses are pasted together to prove a doctrine.
Mystical mush. Taking verses intended to be literal or are idiomatic and giving them a "spiritual" interpretation.

II. Controlling Leader/Leadership.
Frequently, near to total submission is implicitly or explicitly demanded by the leader/leadership. This is because they have "the mind of Christ," special revelation, are "God's anointed," etc.
The leader/leadership has a special pipeline to God with no actual accountability. This gives to them a special authority and weightiness in their pronouncements, even in non-essentials.
Scriptures like Hebrews 13:17; Psalm 105:15, etc. are used to manipulate the member and justify the leader's position. These verses are taken out of context and were never intended for leaders who are not accountable.
The leader/leadership often determines the areas of your life that are important for you to submit in. Refusing their counsel is to be rebellious.
The problem is that members of these aberrational groups tend to abdicate their decision making power to the group or leader.

III. Separation/Isolation Of The Membership.
Members are separated from the "world" in a variety of ways in order to protect them from "harmful" influences.
This is couched in spiritual language and is usually sincerely believed by the leader/leadership as an appropriate and necessary step for them to take. "We want to help you to become the best in Christ that you can possibly be. It has been our experience that you can be harmed by living with..., getting involved in..., reading..., associating with..., etc. This certainly wouldn't please Jesus, and you might even fall away from the truth. It has happened in the past."
This separation is often from family, friends, and even other Christian groups.

IV. The Chosen Few.
Spiritual elitism is often rampant in these aberrational groups. All other Christians outside your group are either lukewarm or not true believers at all.
Consequently, salvation is not found outside the walls of the group and other Christians are "fair game" for proselytizing (ie. conversion to a group, tradition or belief system).
Aberrational Christian groups rarely, if ever, cooperate with other Christian groups not associated with them.

V. Uniformity Of Lifestyle.
This uniformity of lifestyle may be manifested in beliefs, dress, language and living conditions.
The desire is to create a true disciple of Jesus Christ. However, the issue is what makes a disciple and how is one identified.
This uniformity can intrude in all the private areas of an individuals life where the Scriptures are silent.

VI. No Dissent.
Because the leadership is authoritarian it follows that there can be no questioning of God's anointed or prophet.
In non-coercive groups and churches differences on lesser points of doctrine and practice are tolerated. It is the unity of the Spirit that is essential. The individuality of the member is always affirmed. However, minor differences of doctrine and practice are not tolerated in aberrational groups.
To speak out or to question is to have a rebellious spirit and to possibly fall under God's wrath.

VII. Traumatic Departure.
Leaving an aberrational Christian Group is always extremely traumatic.
If a member plans on leaving and the leadership finds out there may be a painful confrontation with the leadership who seek to talk the "rebellious" member out of leaving.
Frequently, the person may be told, "If you leave bad things will happen to you. Maybe you will get cancer..., get hit by a car..., lose everything..., go insane..., and even die."
Leaving is also very traumatic because even though the member no longer believes in the group, they have been indoctrinated to believe that salvation does not exist outside their walls. Thus, where can the departing member go?

VIII. In Transition
Doctrines and practices tend to mutate further and further from healthy belief and expressions.
Aberrational groups are never static but tend to devolve theologically. Many begin fairly orthodox, but over time become heretical in major doctrines.
The practices and rituals of aberrational groups also tend to take on divine authority. Practices that were optional or conditional in the beginning become absolute standards whereby commitment and spirituality are measured.

http://www.neirr.org/s7-aber2.html

Re: Cults
 

Rick Ross is among many like us helping articulate these definitions. My list would have been similar.

BTW, the UPCI is an organization. The local church is where we are talking. The pastor of that local church is the "leader" we talk about, not some General Superintendent.

Re: Cults
 

The movie, The Village. Good example of cult. Tell me there are no eery similarities between that and... well... just watch it.

Re: Cults
 

I would not say that the UPC as an organization is a cult although it does display some cultish characteristics. Some believe that the UPC as an organization is a cult.

Some local UPC churches are, in my opinion, cults, but there are other local churches (UPC or other OP types and many non OP) that are cults. This is my opinion.

Re: Cults
 

Many NFL teams operate under irrational and controlling methods. many do not.

Re: Cults
 

Yes, but I understand the Pentagon suspects there may be life on Mars and is withholding the information from us.

Re: Cults
 

Many posters operate under irrational and illogical ideas which they post on a regular basis.

Re: Cults
 

This may be true, but when the economy has taken the hit it has, it eventually impacts all of us.

Re: Cults
 

The thread is about cults and If you want to confess, that is fine.

Re: Cults
 

The organization is just not involved enough in the day-to-day functioning and operations of the local church to be called a "cult" itself.

Re: Cults
 

Really? That's odd because John Sailhamer believes the universe is billions of years old and that a day in Genesis 1 is a 24 hour period.

Re: Cults
 

:toofunny

Re: Cults
 

Do you take confessions? I didn't know you were a UPC Father?

Re: Cults
 

While I would acknowledge the thread is about cults, you must understand that Wal-mart has used their power of dominant market-share to influence prices which have put several good companies out of business. It's not as simple as getting great deals at the store.

Re: Cults
 

You can send penance if you feel that badly.

Re: Cults
 

Good example. I am familiar with Walmart's business model. Tell me, can Walmart make some one sell to them below breakeven prices?

Re: Cults
 

I think the word is misused and abused for the intent of maligning groups that don't agree with the majority

The word originally meant the same thing as a religious sect, any belief or group that believed in the supernatural

Later it was used to designate mind control groups such as Jim Jones. That is how most Americans think of the word IMO,so when it get's attached to any group just because they don't believe in a certain doctrine I think it's being used with malice intentionally or ignorantly

On that issue of mind control, I do believe there are Oneness churches, individual ones, that are of that genre. I believe there is one in my neighboring city. He has them so jaded on other UPCs that if they ever leave that church over a disagreement with the pastor that person would rather just not go to any church at all.

We have this lady that left that church. The reason was she just got fed up with the pastor. The Pastors wife left to visit her daugher and son in law and granddaughter. The pastor refused her to go...having something to do with the fact that the daughter and son in law left that church for another very conservative church. When the wife returned she came to a house that had the locks changed and the pastor would not let her in. Not knowing where to go she went over to this ladies house for comfort.

She was so shocked and saddened she left that church and started attending our, however she didn't feel right about it having heard all the stuff about how bad our church is and to this day she isn't coming.

We have former members that went through that process but came out of it and recovered and now see how wrong that pastor was. He thinks the best way to keep them there and enduring his abuses is to convince them they can't go anywhere else and be saved

Re: Cults
 

The pastor's wife disobeyed her husband and went to visit her daughter who had left the church, and the pastor had the locks changed so that when she came home she couldn't get back into her own house? Did I understand that correctly? Are the pastor and his wife now separated or divorced or just living together and attending different churches?

Re: Cults
 

They are not separated. It was his way of punishing her for visiting her grandchild and she also has health issues

Re: Cults
 

Codie, why would you ask the above questions and then be rude and condescending to everyone that answers?

Re: Cults
 

This happens all too often

Re: Cults
 

There are few around here and they are all independent now, thankfully

BTW this church I am told rewrote it's by laws so now the board or the church can't appoint a new pastor in the case the old one is unable to pastor for whatever reason. Instead there are a group of independent churches they have joined with and have a group of elders who will appoint a pastor to that church.

For a long time it was the board that prevented them from leaving the UPC but I guess the pastor somehow replaced many of them with his yes men

Re: Cults
 

Well, it depends. I think we have to wait until we see how much BP will spend in the gulf oil spill cleanup. At that point, if the speed limit in Kansas is increased from 70 to 75, I think the mayor of Laramie, Wyoming may run for re-election.

Re: Cults
 

I've read his writings and honestly, I just don't buy it. When I was a kid, we used to build ramps and try to act like Evil Knievel. If we were successful with our jumps, we would go to the store an buy sweet tarts.

Re: Cults
 

I don't know why Obama wants to ramp up spending again anyway. It didn't work the first time.

Re: Cults
 

Obama is ramping up spending on cults? :pullhair

Re: Cults
 

Cults are donating like crazy into the Obama campaign they want him to build a ramp to launch them into heaven.

Re: Cults
 

Blue Oyster Cult ?

Re: Cults
 

Highway ramps are under construction all over America and could lead to thousands of jobs. Of course Obama will take credit. But many of those jobs go to undocumented workers here in Texas. I think Lou Dobbs is to blame.,,:thumbsup

Re: Cults
 

New Jersey officials ordered the removal of experimental oyster reefs from the Raritan Bay, but New York has given permission for similar reefs in New York Harbor.

The NY/NJ Baykeeper, partnering with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the federal Environmental Protection Agency, today will announce plans to develop small reefs of oysters near Governors Island to see whether they can survive in polluted harbor waters so the state can eventually restore oysters to the harbor in larger numbers.

This can be traced back to the Obama's administration's disastrous ecological agenda.

Re: Cults
 

Obama may take credit for it but Bush had started the ramp refurbishment projects before he left office, leaving Obama to receive all the credit for the ramp up in the economy, and for the cults to have easy access to our highways.

Re: Cults
 

What's next polygamous communes where rest stops used to be? First, it's gay marriage then it's Harry Krishna billboards. Obama started this with his social media style of campaigning/marketing.

Re: Cults
 

lol

Re: Cults
 

Social media is of the devil. Only someone as immoral as Obama would campaign on Facebook. Everyone knows that there are gay couples on Facebook.