Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

A Christian man, taking medications and very highly intoxicated, attempted to kill his wife and one of his sons.

He initially pulled the trigger on his wife and the gun didn't fire.

His son tried to wrestle the gun out of his hands and failed. The father pointed the gun and shot his son, grazing the side of his son's head.

Now this guy who did all of these terrible things, did them in front of his 7 year old daughter.



You have been a friend of this family for awhile. You're familiar with the struggles that lead up to these sad events.



Now that your friend is in jail, do you go and visit him?


If yes, what do you say? What do you talk about?

If no, well, is that the way to treat a friend?


I'm troubled by the whole situation-- especially since I warned them both on separate occasions, more than once, that they should divorce for their own safety. I really don't know how I am supposed to relate to them any more, or if I even should.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

Don't think about whether you should visit him. Think about whether you want to visit him.

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Wow, what a horrible situation. If it was a long time friend, I might visit. I would think you could listen and try to be understanding. If he was high/drunk, he might not remember certain things. I would really pray about it first. And try to find out if the jail has a chaplain.

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We have a similar situation going on right now at our church. Not exactly the same, but you will get the connection:

A 40 year old man who grew up in our church and comes from a family who is very active and very upstanding was just put in jail 3 weeks ago. He is charged with child molestation and rape, among other things. He has admitted to everything. He has been molesting his daughter and her friend for the past 4 years. The girls are in the 5th grade right now. The abuse actually started when they were between 3-4 years old and lasted a couple years, then stopped for a time before he started up again.

This has been a very hard thing for all of us. Mostly because we have all been friends with this man all these years and considered him a brother in the Lord. It's hard to turn off that love. In fact, I have been surprised at my own reaction. I seriously would have thought before this happened that I would immediately hate this man because of what he did. Instead, I find that I do not hate him. I HATE WHAT HE HAS DONE. I hate his SIN. But I am terrified for his soul and very, very concerned for him. His father has come to us and asked if we would consider writing to this man in the jail. NOT to say that we agree. Or that we support him in any way. Only to let him know that, while we are thoroughly disgusted by what he has done, we still pray for him and for his soul. We are going to do this. We are NOT going to go to the prison to visit. Mostly because visitors are so very limited in prisons and we want to leave those spots free for his parents. But, whether we approve or not (again I say - we DO NOT), this man still is a living soul who will spend eternity somewhere. That soul is important to God. And that makes his soul important to us.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

I warned him. I told him that he should just leave. I can't think of any situation where I have advised or suggested divorce as a valid option.

Yet for this family, I knew things would get violent again. I just never thought it would go like this.

He could have killed his son!


I know that he would have NEVER wanted to do this if he was in his right mind.

He worked so, so hard to provide for his family.

His house is absolutely stunning! The work, the detail he put into it-- simply unbelievable!


Some of the folks on his side of the family actually tried to blame the wife for allowing things to get so bad in the first place-- they think she should have left him a long time ago.


However, neither one of them believed in divorce.

One of the last times I spoke with him over the phone, they were watching Joyce Meyer together.

At that moment, they were determined to ensure that "satan would not have the victory in their marriage."

I didn't know what to say to that either. In fact, he frustrated me when he said that I lost my cool with him.

I told him he wasn't making any sense, but then I felt bad for encouraging their divorce-- but I promise it would have been the best thing for the both of them.

There is just so much to this situation-- and I saw it all unfolding in front of me.

I tried, I really tried to warn them. I prayed for them. I invited them to my church, but they weren't interested in being "Pentecostal." They attended the church about a mile down the street from mine.


I don't blame me in whole, but in part.

I keep thinking that I could have done or said something to stop things from going the way they did.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

I don't want to just let him rot there.

We haven't talked since it happened and I am thinking that I maybe should go visit him.

I'm just at a loss for words as to what we could possibly talk about.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

Jermyn, the counselors have told us that when something like this happens, those of us on the outside (those not directly involved) will also go thru all the stages of grief just like the people directly involved will. We are grieving the loss of a friendship, the loss of trust, and all kinds of other things.

I don't know if you know what the stages of grief are, but if you don't, it might be worth your while to google search it. YOU are not the guilty party here. You did everything you could have done. Please don't beat yourself up thinking that you could have or should have done more. He was an adult and made adult decisions. But the point is that HE made the decisions. You did all you could.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

Talk about yourself.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

Jermyn, why don't you go and let him talk. See what he has to say. You may find that what he needs more than anything else is just someone to simply listen to him. Don't feel like you've got to do all the talking. And, if he will talk, you will know what to talk about! Just my thoughts....

Been Thinkin

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

I know that in both VA and TN an inmate must put together a list of a set amount of potential visitors (about 10). They only let the people on that list visit the inmate.

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I do that too much already.

:blah

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

It sounds like you consider him a friend so it's not like you would be making a "cold call" to some stranger who is incarcerated. I'd suggest you go visit him. Talk to him very frankly. Tell him that God can and will forgive him if he asks. Recommend Alcoholics Anonymous. AA "works if you work it." Lives have been changed by God working through AA even though some times He remains anonymous. As far as divorce, most of us don't really believe in divorce but some times it's the best solution. His wife has to decide on that.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

He's a soul. I'd visit him and see if he's repentant. Stress how he needs God and how this was just the first in a series of life destroying events if he doesn't surrender his heart to the Gospel. I'd also point out how many times GOD interviened to prevent the situation from being worse. And I'd admonish them both to separate and consider divorce. (I'd allow them to remarry each other if they desired and had taken time to become healthy.)

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

Oh and one other thing. If they give you an hour visitation (some places only give you 15 mins) then make sure you have an excuse to leave early incase you need to.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

Please go visit him and encourage him. He is a child of God and you are his brother and you should encourage him. Do not deal with in anyway the situation. Just love him. Read or quote encouraging scriptures for him and then put your hand up on the glass when it is time to go and pray for him that God will help him and give him wisdom in what to do in this situation. Just go and bless him. Tell him that you love him and are there for him. Ask him if there is anything you can do for him. In most jails they do not get enough food so you could spend $20 - $30 for a care package it would be a blessing and a tangible way to show the Love of God to him. Also, make sure he has clean/new t-shirts, underclothes, a sweat shirt, thick white socks and shower shoes.
I am a chaplain at several jails and the inmates always need things. You might make sure he has a good Study Bible and send him some lessons to do.
If you need to you can email me with any questions at Life770@aol.com.
Bless you!
OH, And put $20 or more $$ on his books so he can make phone calls - If you can.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

What would Jesus do? Serious question, actually. You are his friend. Go visit him.

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AB, that is GREAT advice. Thank you.

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Is anyone visiting and taking care packages to his family? My concern would be for them first, personally. I don't know if I'd visit the man or not, I can't stand violence against children, whatever the reason. I'm glad to see there are people here who are more compassionate than me though.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

I have been in touch with the wife and children. However, the wife is keeping a little distance from me because in part, I told her this would happen and the fact that I was more the husband's friend than her friend.

She didn't really want to even take my new cell #-- I had to insist.

It's just so sad and awkward.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

My friend called me at work-- TODAY, about 15 minutes ago!

I haven't seen or heard from him in almost 2 years!

He is STILL in jail-- no bond hearing, no trial date!!!

I don't understand how this can happen.


That guarantee of a speedy trial? Fuggetaboutit!



He called me today to bluntly ask me for help. His blood relatives are in NY, he doesn't know where his wife, 2nd son, and youngest daughter are. His oldest son visited him once about 4 months ago.

He asked if I would help him and I told him I would. I am going to try to visit him this weekend-- definitely within the next 7 days.

Please pray for my friend and pray for me so that I can be a real friend to him.

His name is Rafael.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

I will pray.

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Thanks Randy.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

Maybe that's the Lord telling you that you should go visit. Maybe you can be a friend and just listen or encourage some form of counseling. Maybe... you will learn even more from the experience to aid you in future situations.

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Will be praying for you both.

Explains some things. Wow.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

wow. praying for you in this situation.

I would however do some checking on the case. it doesnt sound right that there was no bond hearing and he has been in jail for two years without a trial.

there has to be more to the story.
But, Like you I would help him.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

Am I also his pastor? If he has a pastor, and since I am in the ministry, I would first talk to his pastor and let his pastor know that I want to visit him, but am not trying to overstep my bounds and am not doing so in a pastoral sense, but just as a friend.

Secondly, absolutely you minister, which means visit. Before I am his friend, I am an ambassador of the kingdom of God believing that short of his outright refusal of Jesus, there's always hope for repentance, and restoration. But I would also be a friend and a minister to the whole family... and bathe the entire situation and my small part in it with prayer and fasting, so that in the end, I'm hidden behind the cross and the help of the Lord is all they see.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

German,

I am glad I skimmed through the whole thread before posting! I didn't realize at first that this was a two year old thread.

It is a very difficult situation. I can only tell you my philosophy in these matters. I think a friend is always a friend within certain limitations.

In this case I would visit or at least communicate with the man letting him know that you are praying for him and if you can help make his life more comfortable by mailing him magazines,etc if he can receive them.

I would not let this man in my home or around my family as a safety precaution and would have no problem letting him know that.

Every person deserves a fair t rial and I have to believe that there is more to the story than he is telling you. I can't imagine why he would be in jail for two years before this went to trial UNLESS he has been undergoing treatment during this time to bring him to a condition where he will be fit for trial or some other reason. I was the jury foreman on a murde trial where the defendant was not brought to trial for two or more years after the crime because they were trying different medications to get her sane enough to be in court. I doubt he has just been forgotten.

Only you can decide if you want to champion this man's cause. Personally I have told my children since they were young that if they do a crime I am not going to do anything to help them avoid doing the time. I told them I would still love them and visit them in jail or prison but there is a price to pay for doing wrong. I have never understood parents who try to get their kids out of just punishment. Same thing would apply to friends.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

CC1, if you skimmed thru this thread, you might have stumbled across the post about the man from our church who is now in prison for molesting two little girls. I wanted to share with you - I have been so impressed with his parents thru this whole thing. They have been there for him. They have visited, they've offered to put money in his account so he could get the things he needs, they encouraged others to write encouraging notes to him, etc. But they have made it absolutely clear that they are NOT there to get him out of prison or even to get his sentence reduced. They've told him and everyone else that he did the crime and he has to pay the price for it. He understands that. But they have prayed with him and for him (as have lots of us!) and Bob is now involved and leading Bible studies in his prison. He's gone thru as much counseling as the prisons offer (which unfortunately is nowhere near what it should be!).

I have to tell you tho - what you've told your kids is right on. But (God forbid) you should ever be in a position to have to follow thru, I can tell you from being involved with my friend's thru this, that that will be the HARDEST thing you will ever have to do.

Re: Would You Visit This Man Who...
 

:thumbsup