Does your church do this?
 

For years I have attended Christmas programs at various churches where the event was done as an outreach type service to get the parents of the bus kids to attend and to attract visitors.

This year, it has been announced that our Christmas program will be a dinner theater fundraiser. The cost of admission is $15.

I don't mind giving money to my church, but I feel this is the wrong way to go about raising funds. I may be alone in my opinion on this, but I was just appalled that they would make the decision to do this. It's not like this church would not be able to pay the bills if they didn't do this fundraiser.

Anyone else's church using the Christmas program to solicit more money from it's members?

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Rather than creating a firestorm here on the Forum and gathering up ammunition for your distaste about what is going on at your church, why don't you do the Matthew 18 thing and go talk to either your pastor directly or those responsible for this? It'll save your heart a whole lot of trouble.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

There's always a need to raise more funds. How effective have the previous "outreach" productions been?

What's this fundraiser focused on? To provide funds for a different type of outreach or to bolster one that has a proven track record?

What's on the menu? ... Maybe that's just "nice to know information."

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Not a bad idea. These dining and theatrical events can cost a lot of money. They can also stir up discord.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

ur funny when you put on those thick glasses and act all serious.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Really. Our church did a production of "Showboat" once to raise money for flannelgraph and other Sunday School supplies.

Between the issues of miscegenation, lusty dames and the fact that our stevedores were all "Irish" instead of Blacks, we lost half the congregation to one thing or the other.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

I suppose our church is probably the exception to the rule, but we rarely ever charge for anything we invite the public to. I can't even remember the last time we charged for something, now that I think about it. In fact, we do 2 FREE clothing give-aways every year. Our mother-daughter tea is free, our Christmas banquet is free, we do a Christmas "play" with the Sunday School kids every december, which is, you guessed it, free.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

I've seen it done. Is it your choice whether or not to go, or is it a required event? Is the food and entertainment worth the price? Is not going worth any upset it might cause? I always went. The food was worth $5-7, and the rest of the $8-10 was worth it's value for keeping the peace.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

The truth is, I don't like the idea. But I just get an icky feeling when someone has some angst with the church they're attending and attempts to solve it by going on an internet discussion board looking for opinions. I don't see much of a way that's going to result in anything good. We're all here just blabbing. But MusicMaster has to sit there next week and potentially listen to a pastor she's ticked off at, loaded with negative opinions he/she gathered on AFF.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

We have a church in our area that does a yearly Christmas program that has grown so big that they had to move to I-Wireless Center. They sell out the theatre 4 nights.
They do charge, many tickets are given away by their congregation to people they invite.
The "Littledrummer boy" in the video I am posting is different every year, but always a crowd favorite.
It starts with one drummer and builds and builds to a great crescendo.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdikl88ntBE

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Here's Little Drummer Boy from another years program. I love the "garbage can band" at he the end.

Oh BTW..they are Weslayn Methodists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhyakqpLvhw

Re: Does your church do this?
 

What happened to the old notofworks?

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Good grief, I would think AFF posters would be all for a church promoting "theater."

Some of you would find a reason to complain if your church handed you a $500 dollar bill and told you they didn't need any more of your money.

The dinner theater is an exchange of goods and services for money. It's no different than if you went to a Branson show. The best part it goes to support ministry, and they are probably doing it because they didn't feel right asking for an offering.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

This complaint wasn't primarily about the money... It was about changing what was previously an outreach activitiy into a fundraiser.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

You didn't make it clear if YOUR church has done Christmas programs for outreach.

Is the Christmas program they are planning in lui of a Christmas banquet?

After they pay for the food, they won't be "raising" much money anyway.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

It's impossible to "do" church without money. It takes a lot of it.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Good point rgcraig. I assumed musicm was trying to say their church changed their christmas play from outreach to fundraising.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Nothing new here. I think, and I've always thought, it's dangerous to bring a grievance with one's local church here to this forum and get opinions. In any area of life, if one has a contention with another, the best solution is always to go directly to the source. To do otherwise is to potentially corrupt one's heart beyond repair.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

I'm pretty sure I've seen you give out opinions in all those areas? Maybe I'm mistaken though...?

Re: Does your church do this?
 

I suppose if it's a general discussion, sure. But any time someone has come on here and said, "My church is doing such-and-such, what do you think?" I've said the same thing. The last time I saw it was Cindy or Margie....can't remember which one. And I said the same thing then.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

That’s not always true.

I know a man named Scott who was a pastor in Tennessee. He resigned his pastorate because he felt the politics and money machine was unbiblical. He then moved to Ohio and got a job. Scott and his wife opened their home for “house church”. It began as simple Bible studies. Today the group gathers and sings a few songs. Then Scott leads prayer and shares a passage from the Scripture and what the Lord has put on his heart about the passage. The meetings are interactive, which means those attending can share insights, additional passages, or experiences relating to the topic. Often a wide range of thoughts, insight, and experiences are shared. Members in attendance are also free to share passages laid on their hearts and what the Lord has been laying upon their hearts. Interaction is encouraged throughout. Those in attendance may share passages, insights, prophecies, visions, dreams, poems, articles; artwork, songs, or whatever they feel led to lead. Scott often corrects and clarifies with love when needed. Every Sunday they have a pot-luck style dinner that is rather large. In these meetings people often share how they’ve been blessed… they also share their defeats and their struggles with sin. Often confession flows as tears roll down the cheeks of a dear saint of God and you’re left thinking, “I never knew he struggled with something like this.” People are loved, sin is rebuked, and prayers are offered. It’s actually quite beautiful.

Scott has never taken up offerings accept when directly addressing a direct need among the members or a direct need of the ministry. For example, a woman named Janet shared that her car had broken down and she didn’t have money to fix it. Being a single mother she was worried as to how she was going to get to work. A member volunteered to take her to work until she had her car repaired. Scott called for an offering to help her pay for all the necessary repairs. It was beautiful. They have also volunteered to help an older woman down the street by maintaining her yard and the outside of her house.

Scott doesn’t receive a “salary” or take tithes. He has only asked for offerings to fund trips to conferences, charitable activities, outreach, or when he travels in relation to ministry.

Many house church elders don’t ask for tithes or financial support. They live off of their regular incomes from their jobs. Some ask that members “tithe” or give a set amount to a secondary checking account for “evangelism and mercy ministries”. Members are admonished that this is the “Lord’s money” and they are instructed to only draw from it to help individuals, friends, and family who find themselves in need as an outreach of compassion. This is called “giver to getter” benevolence.

Scott’s group has gotten too large for his home twice. Each time he trained and ordained a family to open their own homes for meetings. Each of these two groups has already appointed families to open their own homes. There are between 7 or 8 groups meeting now, each having between 12 and 18 adults attending.

Children are encouraged to participate in the adult meetings; which often brings a little laughter and sometimes sweet inspiration. They are also allowed to play upstairs or outside together periodically. Sometimes the children are asked to leave the room if a more mature subject is being discussed.

Scott’s group doesn’t always meet at their home. Sometimes they meet at a park, a coffee house, a restaurant, the Courthouse Square, and other public venues. When meeting publically they have a very simple Bible study for all to see and hear. Often those patrons who are listening will get drawn into the discussion. They often offer prayer to those willing to receive it. Often members take up an offering and pool their money together to go to festivals, carnivals, amusement parks, etc. as a group. While there, they are challenged to “witness” to the lost and help them discover that “hanging out” with Christians can be both fun and spiritually rewarding.

Scott is also a big advocate of street preaching and street evangelism. Watching him preach and personally evangelize downtown is very moving. When asked, he’ll tell you that his pulpit is found in his shoe leather, his steeples are the trees, and his “church” is a place he calls…“home”.

Scott hasn’t set foot in a traditional church in over 6 years (maybe 7 by now).

All of this is low cost. In fact, the entire movement is absolutely “free”. Members put the money forward for efforts they wish to participate in personally or to address immediate needs among themselves.

We’ve become accustomed to the “Sunday Production” of church. With the concert worship styles and professional orators that offer “Sermonized” messages. We’re used to sitting in pews, being spectators of the show. We’re used to the cost of the building, pastor’s salary, maintenance, additional building programs, utilities, supplies, equipment, and all that goes with these things ON TOP of benevolence. Often less than 20% is left for actual evangelism and mercy ministries. We have bought into the notion that “church” takes massive amounts of education, talent, and resources. Frankly, it’s much like opening a business. Church has become a business, and “ministry” a profession. Immense pressure is put on ministers to “deliver the goods” in their sermons. They have to be entertaining, attention keeping, relevant, humorous, and somehow get the Word of God into the congregation through these means. Also pressure is put on ministry to be “perfect”. They must always smile…even if they just had a very heated argument with their wives in the car where they threatened divorce. The way we traditionally do church is sometimes very harmful to ministers and their families. So in some ways… the traditional form hurts both the congregation who is lulled into being “spectator Christians” watching the “Sunday Show” and the ministry that is forced to continue the “performance”. Sometimes, it’s a very sad state of affairs.

The point is that “church” doesn’t have to take a lot of money. It can be simplified and restored to its Apostolic pattern. If one studies the first century church…they will discover that believers primarily gathered in smaller gatherings in homes. They functioned more like a “family” than a corporation. Elders were simply spiritual fathers who were mature in the Lord, not CEO’s. A study of I Corinthians 14 will reveal that Paul actually put form and structure on these smaller meetings wherein all could prophesy. This pattern was seen emerging throughout church history with every great revival movement. Even the Methodists began meeting in smaller home based meetings and outdoors to find more freedom in Christ. On the American frontier families often gathered around the table on Sunday as “Paw” opened the Bible and taught them, allowing everyone to participate. The “preacher” was a circuit riding preacher who often didn’t make it to the frontier chapel but once every couple weeks or more.

What we believe to be “church” is a very expensive, pressure filled, complex innovation of a modernized culture that sees even spiritual life as being “incorporated”. The truth is, we can shed many of the unnecessary trappings of what we call “church” and be left with a spiritual “kingdom” that flows with the Spirit… not the cash flow.

May God richly bless you and yours,

Aquila

Re: Does your church do this?
 

This was AWESOME!! I loved it!

Re: Does your church do this?
 

I am NOT going to a house "church"!

Re: Does your church do this?
 

We don't "do church" that way here in the U.S.A.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

LOL With that kind of attitude, you'd probably not last long anyway. lol :toofunny

You'd not like Paul much....

Acts 28:30-31 (New King James Version)
30 Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house, and received all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.

Method of gathering (Paul's instructions for the Corinthians)....

I Corinthians 14:26-38 (New King James Version)
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

When we say that we have church just like the Bible says... are we telling the truth??? Those who house church are. ;)

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Why? :razz

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Are you sure it's a fundraiser? Our church has had Christmas dinners in hotel conference rooms in the past, and the price is usually around $10/person. That amount just covers the food and space rental. There aren't any funds being raised.

Re: Does your church do this?
 

I tell you the truth. People get stranger by the day! LOL

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"People are strange when you're a stranger." I believe a 60's prophet wrote that. :D

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Adam, You are a HOOT! LOL

Re: Does your church do this?
 

Who is becoming strange? If you're talking about house churchers, all that makes them different is a hunger for Christian simplicity.