Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

GARDEN GROVE, Calif. -- Crystal Cathedral, the megachurch birthplace of the televangelist show "Hour of Power," filed for bankruptcy Monday in Southern California after struggling to emerge from debt that exceeds $43 million.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/18...cy-california/

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Well, so much for "the power of positive thinking" and "the prosperity gospel."

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

I don't think they were into the prosperity gospel stuff

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

no, not like some in the "name it and claim it" camp.
I guess it was more of the power of positive thinking thing.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Nope, certainly no prosperity gospel. And...no "Power of positive thinking", either. It's "Possibility Thinking."

Things have been rough since two things....since Schluer's son was ousted and since the economy went in the tank. Schuler's daughter is now the senior pastor and honestly, the program is tough to watch now. It's obvious she has some charismatic leanings and it just doesn't jive with the culture of the glass cathedral.

I've long admired the senior Schuler. Take a look at the "Possibility Thinker's Creed":

When faced with a mountain,
I WILL NOT QUIT!

I will keep on striving
until
I climb over,
find a pass through,
tunnel underneath,

or

simply stay
and
turn the mountain
into a gold mine
with
God's help!!

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

I've never liked Schuller. Here's why...

http://www.nndb.com/people/603/00002...schuller_2.jpg http://cdn.rabbitfunds.com/wp-conten...lson-joker.jpg

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

43 million debt

I see they have not been sending out missionaries. No cash flow.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Creation: Once Upon All Time
Yep they did a non biblical Creation narrative.

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=...ion=view&ID=26

Fairy tale for adults.

It appears their Easter and christmas productions were extravagant.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

LOL!!:ursofunny

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

BK's can happen to anyone, and this should serve as an example of reflecting on how much our churches are serving as examples of open-handed giving (not hoarding), while also not borrowing beyond our means, placing incredible stress on congregations.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Uhhhhh, no, they didn't. They did chapter 11 which is a reorganization, not a surrender.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Sounds like a french surrender to me.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

The Crystal Cathedral has been a great business enterprise for many years. But it seems the one thing they didn't plan for very well (and they're not alone in this) is the aging of their founder. And unlike Lakewood, there has not been someone to jump in and make it even better.

Schuller, the son, seemed well-received but he went against his father's core principals and the senior Schuller wouldn't stand for it. Now, Sheila Schuller-Coleman is in charge and while I hope the best for them, I struggle watching them under her direction. Maybe it works for some, but for me, it's corny, not very well done, they're trying to do guitar-driven, Hillsong-type music with an orchestra and a traditional, opera-type choir. And Schuler-Coleman is trying to get these old Dutch-reformed, pipe-organ types to raise their hands and do charismatic stuff.

And from my living room, it seems the cringe-factor is huge. Occasionally, the camera pans the audience and where once there was never an empty seat, there are now hundreds of empty seats. It's scary. I don't think their downfall has much to do with the economy. It seems to have more to do with the transfer of power from the elder, to the follow-ups.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Ok, whatever you wanna think. But they're far from quitting.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

quitters.

what really distrubs me (or is it desturbs?) is that someone actually watches that mess.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

I watch it, although I don't enjoy it much anymore, and you are definitely disturbed.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

LOL! nice.

pst, i dont even know why people would watch TV church even if the church were exactly like mine.... its just weird to me.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

:ursofunny

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

I've made it pretty clear here on the forum, I can't stand Christian TV and I flat-out despise TBN and anything like it.

But Schuller was different for me. I loved his approach, loved the pipe organ, traditional stoic music, and guest interviews. And one day Dr. Schuller did something that changed me forever and it was at a crucial time in my life.

I was raised in the "Us-four-no-more" "It's SOOO hard to live for Jesus" mentality and one day, following the grand, thunderous opening to the broadcast, Schuller stood up with his flowing robe, stretched out his arms and bellowed, "Todaaaay.........is a Wooooonnnderful day........to be........a Chrrrrristian". And the pipe organ blew the walls down with the intro to the next song.

Something happened in me that day that has never left me. I took up the "Easy yoke" and "Light burden" of Christ and I've never set it down again.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

So....
that's the day you became a reprobate, compromising apostate?

Just kidding, NOW.
You know I don't think that of you.
I admire you.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Dogs belong to the biological family Canidae, but what that has to do with clowns and monkeys I don't know

http://www.coco-clown.com/

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

I think it's "False Teacher"! :lol

Really, you do? Thanks, Jim. I admire you, as well, for your appreciation and retention of history, attention to detail, and for teaching in shorts!:)

I'm thinking about starting a Nancy Pelosi thread. I haven't been around in a while and I feel like stirring up trouble!:D

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Yes, I really do admire you. I wouldn't have said that if I didn't mean it. I admire you for taking a stand for Truth as you see it even if it means the disfavor of friends, family, and "church family." I admire you for what I have perceived here in some of your posts which has shown your attitude toward people and your desire to help them and lift them up. To me that is the heart of the Great Shepherd in you.

Probably not a good idea to start another Nancy Pelosi joke. Well, actually, in my opinion, she is a joke. I hope two weeks from now the votes will be enough to cause her to lose her position of Speaker of the House and her special "transportation." We might even get an Ohio guy for that position. then we can all criticize him starting in January.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

false teacher?

did you ever answer my Facebook friend's question about how a person is saved or born again or whatever he asked?

I've explained to him how I believe about that and he disagrees with me but keeps me as a Facebook friend.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

No, I didn't. As that great theologian, Kenny Rogers said, "You gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em." :lol He's just gonna scream at me no matter what I say, because none of my answers would be acceptable to him. Maybe I should go look it up and start up the fight again!

You know, he sent me a friends request and I had accepted it. After that last spell where he went off on me, I thought I might should delete him just in case he posted stuff on my wall and I didn't see it and people from our church did see it......you never know, you know.

After I deleted him, he sent me two more requests. Interesting guy.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

I once met a motivational speaker at a computer-related conference out in California back in the 90's named Danny Cox. He said in his keynote address that he was from Marion, IL and I was like "WHOA!" Went up to him afterwards and introduced myself, then called him when I got home, got his books and tapes, he is a great guy. Well, anyway, Danny is/was a member of that church. Just thought I'd share. It is a shame that that church has had to do this, but, hey, I think even Bank of America is getting ready to go under soon due to ForclosureGate, so nothing really surprises me anymore in the financial realm of things.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Wow. Not to make a big deal of your age, but coming from someone of your years and experience, that really means a lot. You made my day.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

I couldn't get past the $43 million debt...WOWZERS

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

It cracks me up how we throw others under the bus when they tank financially. It's so easy to judge the failures or struggles of other people, but when this same thing hits us, we sing a different tune.

Henry Ford of Ford Motor Company filed bankruptcy more than once. I also understand that Walt Disney filed for the ol BK.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

This is beautiful, man. I would sometimes watch his program when I was a young man, before knowing what Apostolic/Pentecostalism was all about. I've heard it said that Schuller would say "I....wear out my clothes.....from the INSIDE OUT!!" :ursofunny

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Here's an idea. Sell the building, stop paying out the kazoo for bells and whistles and salaries and fluff and do like Jesus did.....no buildings to serve.

Like so many 'churches', it was built to impress, not a container for God. Sell it. Tear it down. Let it go. It's nothing to God.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

When my father was dieing the only thing I could see out his hospital room window was the cross that sits atop the CC. It gave me great comfort then, I even contacted CC with my little story and they asked me to send a pic and the story to them so they could post it in one of their booklets.

I never did send the picture, but I've never forgot how God arranged for me to have just the Cross available in the view. God knew my heart was about to break in a million little pieces and the view of that Cross meant everything to me.

I'm sad to see them having such troubles, they're an institution in Orange County.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Ironically this church is a microcosm of the California economic and political excess. This is what California needs to do as well as lower taxes for businesses

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Such a man of wisdom! So glad you were sent to give us all the answers! Hey, here's a thought Seekerman, sell all you have, get you some good sandals and a robe and start walkin' and preach your Anti-Church rhetoric to more seekers like you. I am SURE you can get you a crowd! LOL

Its always the screamers and do nothings in the bleachers that are trying to tell the ones that have trained and prepared themselves and ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING IN THEIR LIVES what to do!
Give me a BREAK and tear down your own house!
At least HE BUILT SOMETHING instead of sitting around condemning everybody for having CHURCH on a building!
What have YOU done for the KINGDOM?
You take the cake dude!

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Well you take the CASSEROLE!!! :neener

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Building a building is impressive. Building a close knit and intimate group of saints is what we are called to do, building or not.

But you do make a point... house churchers would do well to take up street preaching against the abuses and excesses of mainstream Christianity, calling all to repentance and a personal relationship with God that goes beyond any building they meet in.

A movement of modern day "John the Baptists" so to speak.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Flattery will get you nowhere!!

'Bishop', you're still confused. I don't preach anti-church rhetoric, I preach anti-man's building and calling it a 'church' rhetoric.

Jesus and the disciples accomplished a lot without building buildings, you know. Hard to beat that pattern, IMO.

No, he did what man's kingdom builders do. He built a religious edifice, called it a church and then convinced folks that supporting that religious edifice was supporting the church.

Now he's begging for more millions to keep the 'church' alive placing even more burdens on the people.

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

And Seekerman, How much did you give and exactly how is it YOUR business? What investment did YOU make? Let me guess... the same as the rest of the stingy, tightwad, self centered, anti-tithe thieves that steal a dime out of every dollar that God has given you the ability to make. I have not an ounce of respect for a man that refuses to tithe. I wouldn't take my coat off in your house as if you would steal from God, you would do everything to steal from a minister of His Word. Guys like you are leaches and suck everything out and never give an ounce back and run the ministry down like dogs. Shame on you. If you don't put anything in - it is NONE of your business what a CHURCH does with what they are given. NONE of YOUR business!
Guys like you make me want to send an offering to the Crystal Cathedral. Dr. Schuler has been kind and hospitable to me and I have enjoyed his program for years. I encourage those who are reading this to make an investment to the Crystal Cathedral so that they can keep on keeping on! God bless Dr. Schuler and the Crystal Cathedral Ministries!

Re: Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy
 

Ya, me too. One would have assumed that it was paid off long ago.