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-   -   Juan Williams (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=31979)

notofworks 10-21-2010 10:40 AM
Juan Williams
 
Ok, I'm "Mr. Sensitive, PC" here on good ole AFF, but I cannot believe Juan Williams was fired for saying this. For sure, he's skirting the edge, but I don't think he went over the edge with this at all. WalksinIslam, are you around? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Here's what Williams said on the O'Reilly show:

"I'm not a bigot, but when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

coadie 10-21-2010 10:42 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=31978

Juan was fired for being politically incorrect as mentiond on the other thread

Mr. Smith 10-21-2010 10:44 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975825)
Ok, I'm "Mr. Sensitive, PC" here on good ole AFF, but I cannot believe Juan Williams was fired for saying this. For sure, he's skirting the edge, but I don't think he went over the edge with this at all. WalksinIslam, are you around? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Here's what Williams said on the O'Reilly show:

"I'm not a bigot, but when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

I think you're being two-faced, NOW. From what I've seen you say in the past, if Williams or anyone else, would have said, "When I see a black person walking toward me at an ATM, I get nervous", you'd be screaming your lungs out."

You're sounding like a hypocrite and I think you're defending Williams just because he's African-American."

notofworks 10-21-2010 10:45 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 975827)
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=31978

Juan was fired for being politically incorrect as mentiond on the other thread

Sorry, I didn't see your thread. I just looked and you showed the video and your only thoughts were, "These are the end times."

Good heavens, how do you make THAT connection????

notofworks 10-21-2010 10:47 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smith (Post 975831)
I think you're being two-faced, NOW. From what I've seen you say in the past, if Williams or anyone else, would have said, "When I see a black person walking toward me at an ATM, I get nervous", you'd be screaming your lungs out."

You're sounding like a hypocrite and I think you're defending Williams just because he's African-American."

Good point, and maybe I would. But you're implying that there has been a history of problems with African-Americans doing bad things at ATM's, so maybe YOU need to look in the mirror. Let's face it, there is a very recent history and several thousands grave sites that show a connection between commercial airliners and radical muslims.

notofworks 10-21-2010 10:50 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
ADMIN: I inadvertently started a thread on the same topic as Coadie. Feel free to delete this one or combine the two, although this thread actually makes sense.

Twisp 10-21-2010 10:53 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975846)
ADMIN: I inadvertently started a thread on the same topic as Coadie. Feel free to delete this one or combine the two, although this thread actually makes sense.
There's less coadie in this thread, so this one should stay. lol

Mr. Smith 10-21-2010 10:53 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975838)
Good point, and maybe I would. But you're implying that there has been a history of problems with African-Americans doing bad things at ATM's, so maybe YOU need to look in the mirror. Let's face it, there is a very recent history and several thousands grave sites that show a connection between commercial airliners and radical muslims.
Well, rather than you and me getting into a fight, we can both agree that Juan Williams getting fired is a sure sign of the rapture coming quickly, that we are in the middle of the tribulation, that the Wheel in the middle of the Wheel is actually Bill O'Reilly, and the four-headed horsemen represented, Williams, O'Reilly, Bin Laden, and AFF.

notofworks 10-21-2010 10:55 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975852)
There's less coadie in this thread, so this one should stay. lol


:ursofunny
You make a great point! Hey Twisp, did you know that CNN and Fox News are the Gog & Magog of Revelation?:heeheehee

coadie 10-21-2010 10:56 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
1. The laws of moral and ethical relativism; all systems of cultures and thought are equal in value, steming from a perceived guilt from white liberals who believe that the Western Civilization is the root of all evil to the exclusion of all else.

2. A powerful form of censorship.

abbr: PC
Urban dictionary.

Do you know how politically incorrect it is to say another person is politically incorrect?
It brings new meaning to judgementalism and intolerance.

Twisp 10-21-2010 10:57 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975855)
:ursofunny
You make a great point! Hey Twisp, did you know that CNN and Fox News are the Gog & Magog of Revelation?:heeheehee
lol, IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

Mr. Smith 10-21-2010 11:04 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 975857)
Urban dictionary.

Do you know how politically incorrect it is to say another person is politically incorrect?
It brings new meaning to judgementalism and intolerance.


Coadie, you need great intolerance and powerful censorship!

Mr. Smith 10-21-2010 11:08 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975838)
Good point, and maybe I would. But you're implying that there has been a history of problems with African-Americans doing bad things at ATM's, so maybe YOU need to look in the mirror. Let's face it, there is a very recent history and several thousands grave sites that show a connection between commercial airliners and radical muslims.

Ok, enough touchy-feely, let's revive the fight....It's easy for us all to get sidetracked in our Coadie frustration.

My point to you was, you're condemning stereotyping in one case and defending it in another. I'm still saying you're being hypocritical, regardless of your defense. There is often an element of truth in stereotypes....doesn't make stereotyping right.

notofworks 10-21-2010 11:10 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smith (Post 975867)
Ok, enough touchy-feely, let's revive the fight....It's easy for us all to get sidetracked in our Coadie frustration.

My point to you was, you're condemning stereotyping in one case and defending it in another. I'm still saying you're being hypocritical, regardless of your defense. There is often an element of truth in stereotypes....doesn't make stereotyping right.

When did I defend the statement he made or say it was ok? Can you read or do you just run around the forum accusing people? I merely said he shouldn't be fired!

Twisp 10-21-2010 11:23 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975869)
When did I defend the statement he made or say it was ok? Can you read or do you just run around the forum accusing people? I merely said he shouldn't be fired!
I think he should have been fired. He made a broad, stereotypical statement about a group of people. Whether he meant it or not, it came off as sounding bigoted.

A rule of thumb I go by: if you have to preface a statement by saying "I'm not a bigot", or, "I'm not a racist", then the ensuing statement probably does not need to be said.

coadie 10-21-2010 11:30 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975879)
I think he should have been fired. He made a broad, stereotypical statement about a group of people. Whether he meant it or not, it came off as sounding bigoted.

A rule of thumb I go by: if you have to preface a statement by saying "I'm not a bigot", or, "I'm not a racist", then the ensuing statement probably does not need to be said.
You must be correct. It would be horrific of you to tolerate his intolerance.
The PC police explode with intolerance towards people that are intollerant.

So you say the bigotry and intolerance sent Juan's way is justified.

Twisp 10-21-2010 11:37 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 975884)
You must be correct. It would be horrific of you to tolerate his intolerance.
The PC police explode with intolerance towards people that are intollerant.

So you say the bigotry and intolerance sent Juan's way is justified.
Of course bigotry should not be tolerated. The same way that racism and discrimination should not be tolerated. Has nothing to do with political correctness, has to do with simple decency.

As far as bigotry being sent his way, I know of none being sent his way.

notofworks 10-21-2010 11:47 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975879)
I think he should have been fired. He made a broad, stereotypical statement about a group of people. Whether he meant it or not, it came off as sounding bigoted.

A rule of thumb I go by: if you have to preface a statement by saying "I'm not a bigot", or, "I'm not a racist", then the ensuing statement probably does not need to be said.

And I'm usually at the front of the line yelling, "Fire him." But here in the context of the point he was making, I think Williams was demonstrating that there is still a palpable fear out there and when we see a muslim on a plane, thought cross our minds. I don't think he was saying, "Those muslims on planes are dangerous!"

Twisp 10-21-2010 11:57 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975902)
And I'm usually at the front of the line yelling, "Fire him." But here in the context of the point he was making, I think Williams was demonstrating that there is still a palpable fear out there and when we see a muslim on a plane, thought cross our minds. I don't think he was saying, "Those muslims on planes are dangerous!"
"But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

He is plainly saying that he gets worried and nervous when he sees Muslims on planes. He has no knowledge of if they are radical or moderate, whether they were born here or abroad, he just sees a Muslim and he gets worried and nervous.

He really couldn't have been much plainer. He is scared of Muslims when he sees them on planes.

coadie 10-21-2010 11:59 AM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975888)
Of course bigotry should not be tolerated. The same way that racism and discrimination should not be tolerated. Has nothing to do with political correctness, has to do with simple decency.

As far as bigotry being sent his way, I know of none being sent his way.
Then you don't know much.


Quote:

"NPR should address the fact that one of its news analysts seems to believe that all airline passengers who are perceived to be Muslim can legitimately be viewed as security threats," said CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad. "Such irresponsible and inflammatory comments would not be tolerated if they targeted any other racial, ethnic or religious minority, and they should not pass without action by NPR."

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/10/20/311...#ixzz1317NMhbe
The Muslims express their intolerance and NPR chose to buckle.

This is actually the central part of the story regarding termination. The left created a distraction. The Muslim bullies get their way by making arguments thst distort what Juan said.

Twisp 10-21-2010 12:00 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 975913)
Then you don't know much.




The Muslims express their intolerance and NPR chose to buckle.

This is actually the central part of the story regarding termination. The left created a distraction. The Muslim bullies get their way by making arguments thst distort what Juan said.
Do tell then, who was being bigoted towards him?

coadie 10-21-2010 12:05 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975911)
"But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

He is plainly saying that he gets worried and nervous when he sees Muslims on planes. He has no knowledge of if they are radical or moderate, whether they were born here or abroad, he just sees a Muslim and he gets worried and nervous.

He really couldn't have been much plainer. He is scared of Muslims when he sees them on planes.
You haven't watched the 6 minute tape and are far to dishonest to mention what he said before the above line.

Juan said "politically correctness can lead to some kind of paralysis where you don't address reality"

notofworks 10-21-2010 12:18 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975911)
"But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

He is plainly saying that he gets worried and nervous when he sees Muslims on planes. He has no knowledge of if they are radical or moderate, whether they were born here or abroad, he just sees a Muslim and he gets worried and nervous.

He really couldn't have been much plainer. He is scared of Muslims when he sees them on planes.

...and like I said, he's skating on the edge. But fired??? I think NPR could issue a statement and say, "The views of Mr. Williams were outside our comfort zone" or whatever, but fired?

But again, in the context of the entire conversation, I think I see what he was saying. I'll admit, this is an unusual position for me because I'm on the frontlines of justice for the oppressed and I'm one of the few people who likes to hear Al Sharpton speak. But I don't see the real damage in Williams' statements.

Twisp 10-21-2010 12:18 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 975920)
You haven't watched the 6 minute tape and are far to dishonest to mention what he said before the above line.

Juan said "politically correctness can lead to some kind of paralysis where you don't address reality"
I have watched the entire clip. The preceding statement further emphasizes his statement about Muslims by saying that political correctness sometimes doesn't let us address reality. The reality, in his case, the reality is that he is worried about Muslims on airplanes.

Twisp 10-21-2010 12:24 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975935)
...and like I said, he's skating on the edge. But fired??? I think NPR could issue a statement and say, "The views of Mr. Williams were outside our comfort zone" or whatever, but fired?

But again, in the context of the entire conversation, I think I see what he was saying. I'll admit, this is an unusual position for me because I'm on the frontlines of justice for the oppressed and I'm one of the few people who likes to hear Al Sharpton speak. But I don't see the real damage in Williams' statements.
I really don't think that NPR, or most companies for that matter, would not fire someone for saying that they were worried when they saw Muslims on an airplane with them.

Mr. Williams could have easily made his point without bringing his personal beliefs or concerns into the conversation.

Jeffrey 10-21-2010 12:30 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975825)
Ok, I'm "Mr. Sensitive, PC" here on good ole AFF, but I cannot believe Juan Williams was fired for saying this. For sure, he's skirting the edge, but I don't think he went over the edge with this at all. WalksinIslam, are you around? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Here's what Williams said on the O'Reilly show:

"I'm not a bigot, but when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."
I can't believe he was either. In fact, he corrected O'Reilly's "all Muslims are terrorist" on a factual basis. He was being honest on an emotional level.

I'm a little shocked by his firing.

Jeffrey 10-21-2010 12:31 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975944)
I really don't think that NPR, or most companies for that matter, would not fire someone for saying that they were worried when they saw Muslims on an airplane with them.

Mr. Williams could have easily made his point without bringing his personal beliefs or concerns into the conversation.
He wasn't giving an interview or working for an NPR piece. He was sitting on a show as Mr. Williams. He agreed that our sensitivities are his sensitivities, even while qualifying he doesn't believe them to be true. It's ridiculous that he was fired. Hypocrisy.

BeenThinkin 10-21-2010 12:34 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
With all the bombings, planes being flown into our buildings, shoe bombers, soldier killings, ships being attacked, ("by Muslims") is there anyone on this forum that would place their hand on the Bible and the other hand on the AFF screen on your computer and say that when you get on a plane and there are Muslims, (known by the way that they dress) on board, that you don't have some element of unrest and concern come over you?

BT

Twisp 10-21-2010 12:36 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 975954)
He wasn't giving an interview or working for an NPR piece. He was sitting on a show as Mr. Williams. He agreed that our sensitivities are his sensitivities, even while qualifying he doesn't believe them to be true. It's ridiculous that he was fired. Hypocrisy.
I know he wasn't giving an interview for NPR. However, they are his employers and have the right to let him go if he does not represent their company the way they think he should.

Jeffrey 10-21-2010 12:41 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975961)
I know he wasn't giving an interview for NPR. However, they are his employers and have the right to let him go if he does not represent their company the way they think he should.
I think taking away the right for a man to have a non-journalistic opinion is a tragedy at its greatest.

They have the right to fire him, but I assure you majority of America will find it absurd, and that can adversely affect the integrity of NPR, which is a broadcasting company I've held in high esteem previously.

Slight overreaction?

Twisp 10-21-2010 12:49 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 975963)
I think taking away the right for a man to have a non-journalistic opinion is a tragedy at its greatest.

They have the right to fire him, but I assure you majority of America will find it absurd, and that can adversely affect the integrity of NPR, which is a broadcasting company I've held in high esteem previously.

Slight overreaction?
Of course the majority of Americans won't like it. Based on the response to the recent Cultural Center in NY, and to other Mosque renovations throughout the country, Americans are just as scared of Muslims as he apparently is.

Whether the majority of Americans agree with it or not, it doesn't change the fact that he defined a huge majority of Muslims with the terrible, extreme actions of a few. No matter what race or religion, that is simply not right.

It would be akin to someone saying that all Christians are the same as the Westboro Baptist Church, simply because they profess to be the same religion, or simply because they dress like Westboro does.

That would not be right either.

Jeffrey 10-21-2010 12:54 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 975970)
Of course the majority of Americans won't like it. Based on the response to the recent Cultural Center in NY, and to other Mosque renovations throughout the country, Americans are just as scared of Muslims as he apparently is.

Whether the majority of Americans agree with it or not, it doesn't change the fact that he defined a huge majority of Muslims with the terrible, extreme actions of a few. No matter what race or religion, that is simply not right.

It would be akin to someone saying that all Christians are the same as the Westboro Baptist Church, simply because they profess to be the same religion, or simply because they dress like Westboro does.

That would not be right either.
He didn't define them at all, Twisp. In fact, his statement qualified that his emotions were not factually based. But his emotions are his emotions.

And America is definitely a little afraid of Muslims right now. We are in the middle of a war right now, mostly fueled by radical Islamists. Does that not seem normal? Can we hold our uncertainty in one hand, and our practical thought life in another?

Cindy 10-21-2010 12:54 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Just goes to show you, sometimes we should just keep our comments to ourselves. Right or wrong.

coadie 10-21-2010 12:58 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeenThinkin (Post 975956)
With all the bombings, planes being flown into our buildings, shoe bombers, soldier killings, ships being attacked, ("by Muslims") is there anyone on this forum that would place their hand on the Bible and the other hand on the AFF screen on your computer and say that when you get on a plane and there are Muslims, (known by the way that they dress) on board, that you don't have some element of unrest and concern come over you?

BT
Like O'Reilly said. "Aw come on. We all know they weren't Norwegians"

Jeffrey 10-21-2010 12:59 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 975975)
Just goes to show you, sometimes we should just keep our comments to ourselves. Right or wrong.
And that's how we became a Free Society... NOT!

coadie 10-21-2010 01:04 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
In a blunt assessment of race relations in the United States, Attorney General Eric Holder Wednesday called the American people "essentially a nation of cowards" in failing to openly discuss the issue of race.In his first major speech since being confirmed, the nation's first black attorney general told an overflow crowd celebrating Black History Month at the Justice Department the nation remains "voluntarily socially segregated."

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder declared
What a spoook. Now Holder from The DOJ makes this claim, Juan has the guts to speak up and he is history.

Poor Juan was being "transparent" and "open" Sharing his "feelings"

This confused generation can't decide if it wants to stand for something or live the limp as a noodle lifestyle.

Cindy 10-21-2010 01:13 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 975980)
And that's how we became a Free Society... NOT!
Just because we have freedom of speech, doesn't mean we should always speak what's on our minds.

coadie 10-21-2010 01:17 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 975987)
Just because we have freedom of speech, doesn't mean we should always speak what's on our minds.
I am a living testament. My wife asked "does this dress make me look fat"

The truth was no where to be found.

Praxeas 10-21-2010 01:17 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 975825)
Ok, I'm "Mr. Sensitive, PC" here on good ole AFF, but I cannot believe Juan Williams was fired for saying this. For sure, he's skirting the edge, but I don't think he went over the edge with this at all. WalksinIslam, are you around? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Here's what Williams said on the O'Reilly show:

"I'm not a bigot, but when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."
Americans are not allowed to speak or think their own opinions anymore. They are expected to lie or keep it to themselves, no honest opinion. The thought police are upon us

Sam 10-21-2010 01:21 PM
Re: Juan Williams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeenThinkin (Post 975956)
With all the bombings, planes being flown into our buildings, shoe bombers, soldier killings, ships being attacked, ("by Muslims") is there anyone on this forum that would place their hand on the Bible and the other hand on the AFF screen on your computer and say that when you get on a plane and there are Muslims, (known by the way that they dress) on board, that you don't have some element of unrest and concern come over you?

BT
Well, if they were there to blow up or hijack the plane, wouldn't they try to dress more inconspicuously so they could get on more easily?


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