DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

From DKB's latest Bulletin 12/01 (http://upci.org/news/Default.asp?NID=805) :

The Pastor in Question:

More on the Branhamite connection and Pastor Youcef:
http://presenttruthmn.com/biblical-d...e-of-the-hour/
http://presenttruthmn.com/biblical-d...e-of-the-hour/

Updates about Pastor Youcef posted on Bramham.org

http://branham.org/20101109_UpdateFromIran
http://branham.org/20101202_UpdateOnBrotherYoucef
http://branham.org/20100816_UpdateOnIran

I am hoping and praying that this pastor is released ... however ... the org's Apostolic contact in Iran is through a Branhamite ministry?


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TP...4g/bernard.png

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

There is no doubt ... Youcef is closely linked with the Brahnamites. He is said to have the largest church among those arrested.

http://messagedoctrine.com/Briankoco...%20Spirits.pdf

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

He said they didn't have an Apostolic contact.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

But that God has open a door ... and rejoiced that this has led to more "Jesus name baptisms". Revival has swept the nation ... according to Bernard ... hundreds baptized in Jesus name .... and *cough, cough* listening to recordings and posting the Picture with The Sign in their meetings?


Don't Branhamites reject glossalia as necessary initial evidence?

Thanks Reckart for the answer: "I disagree with you that they must speak in tongues. ...I would be judge if I said they did not have the Holy Ghost, if they did not speak with tongues." (William Branham, Questions and Answers, 1969, Aug 30th, Jeffersonville, Ind).

Surely ... Bernard is not recognizing this movement as remotely "Apostolic" ....?????

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Various Apostolics on Facebook have stated Youcef is just that ... and that he will be executed on Friday ... tomorrow ... The WNOP has stated this as well ...

this is unfounded:

http://presenttruthmn.com/blog/iran/...eath-sentence/

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

My understanding is that this pastor is connected with a UPC church in Montreal, Canada.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Looks like Pastor Reza, of their Iranian ministry knows these men:

http://upcsaintlaurent.org/en/iranian-ministry

However there are consistent ... strong ties to the Branhamites throughout their websites and sister sites.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

One Branhamite preacher is claiming that they sought legal representation for this group ..... with a Canadian organization that deals with such cases:

http://messagedoctrine.com/Briankoco...%20Spirits.pdf

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

There are ties to Branhamites on AFF, aren't there?

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

More Branham literature claiming close ties to Youcef:

http://www.messagechurch.com/pdf/Bel...ber%202010.pdf

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

I'm curious; are we supposed to not care about this situation because Youcef has Branhamite connections?????? :blink

What exactly is significant about DKB's bulletin, other than being concerned about a pastor who is about to be hanged for being something other than Muslim? Do you disagree that this pastor should be called an "Apostolic contact?" I disagree with many tenants of Branhamism [?], but they are still a facet of the Apostolic movement, albeit an extreme one.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Again I hope this pastor is freed ... and the verdict is still out on whether his fellowship is closely aligned with Branham .... but to jump the gun and somehow proclaim that this group is "Apostolic" simply because it appears to baptize in "Jesus name" ... or that it makes it an automatic entry into the AOP ranks is interesting, at least to me ...

So if I baptize babies in Jesus name by sprinkling, believe the Holy Ghost is received by the laying of hands and animal sacrifice ... I'm Apostolic?

This type of latitude is not even given by the org's general board when it goes after emergents who have left the Apostolic message because they wear untucked shirts with jeans and believe we are saved at repentance.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

DA:

I consider Branhamites to be a fringe element of Apostolica; do you?

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

I would encourage all of us to pray for a man that is about to lose his life right in front of his family, and friends by these wicked men!

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

:thumbsup

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

As it stands I view them as a cult in every sense of the word.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Muslims believe in the teachings of Christ ... are they Christians, Abigail?

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

:thumbsup

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

That doesn't answer the question and you know it. :)

I view Branhamism as a cult, too, but they are still a fringe element of Apostolics, IMO. Therefore if a pastor has *connections* with them, he could also LIKELY be Apostolic, whether he himself is a Branhamite or not.

DKB did NOT claim that this pastor was UPCI. That doesn't mean he's not telling the truth by saying it's someone they've been in contact with.

I just don't understand the point of the thread, DA. This man could lose his life for sharing the Gospel (as best he knows it - if he's part of a cult and is sharing false doctrine, I'm not aware of it, and it doesn't make me any less concerned for him). When I first read the article, it said something about him being part of a "'Full Gospel" group, so I assumed he was trinitarian. The best thing we can do is pray for him and his family, and maybe we can solve the mystery of what he believes and teaches at a later date, hopefully after his sentence is NOT carried out.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

The term Apostolic covers a pretty broad spectrum of believers, doesn't it?

If you and I can be considered Apostolic, and we are diverse from one another in some ways, we need to cut some slack for others who are not exactly like us.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

No, their teaching is not apostolic in any sense of the word ... and you can keep that hooey on your side of the Apostolica fence if you're comfortable smelling it .... the apostles wouldn't believe nor teach many of William Branham's teachings or claims ... A FALSE PROPHET IS A FALSE PROPHET IS A FALSE PROPHET.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

And you think I feel any differently about their beliefs?

Are you upset because DKB referenced the pastor as an Apostolic contact, and you think he's trying to garner a connection that doesn't really exist? Maybe to get some press?

Or are you irritated that we might waste time praying for a possible cult member/leader?

Both? Neither?

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Humble question: then what is the common tie that qualifies one as apostolic?

I know some branhamites, and I have a hard time not considering it crazy stuff.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

I think it's more of the political rhetoric we've come to get used too ... if we read the bulletin's language with a cursory glance it would seem the UPCI is staying low but is somehow wheeling and dealing and maneuvering to help manufacture unprecedented REVIVAL ... in IRAN.

After you peel the layers ... you're left with just what?

And yes ... I think Youcef is a Christian ... but what's this incessant need to own him ?

Press for Jesus name baptism? But Jeff Garner and Rex Jones and TD Jakes baptize in Jesus name too ... and so do some AOG churches and so did the Celtic Catholic church.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Crazy stuff ... ain't apostolic ...

That's a start. :bliss

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Got it. I don't know, but I understand the annoyance if that's really happening. Following that implication...well, I'm not superstitious, but it just seems like bad karma to state the obvious.

I posted a thread earlier with an article, and it didn't even occur to me that he might be Apostolic. For one thing, it seems that trinitarians have laid a better foundation in missions and have way more inroads than we do, so I usually think missionaries in the news are trinitarian unless it's specified otherwise.

Time will tell if this is true or not, I guess. (That he's an "Apostolic contact.")

Btw, I did read in one article that he would be the first Christian executed in Iran in more than 20 years. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, it's a nice statistic to lean on. Let's hope they don't make an example out of this young pastor.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

I must confess I am not familiar with this story. My history studies leave me little time for current events, and I'm not really interested anyway, in reading the plethora of websites and poring over the many news channels.

I do see some parallels, assuming Daniel has the story straight.

"The Siberian Seven?" "The Russian Seven?" --or whatever they were called, supposedly being "persecuted" in the old Soviet Union? And hey, they probably were.

Bottom line: Nathaniel Urshan talked a blue streak about them for over a year in every district conference, general conference etc. The Herald and the Forward were saturated with "progress reports."

They were "ours!" They were "our people!"

You'd think it would have been the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and Campmeeting Jubilee when the Soviet government finally let those people emigrate.

Now this is just my opinion here. Any heat should be directed toward me; that's okay, I can take it.

But those Herald pictures at the airport of Urshan with his arms around the patriarch of the seven? Daniel's imagery brought that to mind--"incessant ownership." It was like Urshan didn't want anyone else--as far as religious leaders from other movements--in publicity photos.

But I noticed as a younger minister how quickly it all became hushed once they finally got those people to the US. All we heard at the next General Conference--very soon after they arrived--was "they're attending one of our churches and doing fine."

Well, bottom line, those people were trinitarians and NEVER attended a UPC church. They immediately went to the Assemblies of God or whomever. If they had REALLY been attending a UPC church, they and their pastor would have been paraded like circus elephants on every conference and campmeeting platform in the country.

A lot of high-pressure offerings were taken to FREE THE SIBERIAN SEVEN!

It all ended up being a big publicity stunt.

I wonder ... would Urshan have pushed that like he had, if he had realized there was NOT any UPC street cred to be earned from the "Russian Apostolics" who were not REALLY apostolic--at least not in Urshan's sense?

Of course, looking back at the REAL historical writings, I think Andrew Urshan was not "apostolic" in the sense Urshan, Hall and others tried to portray him.

But I digress. I see parallels with the "Russian Pentecostals" from the 80s and this situation.

Funny how Bernard--and to be fair, not just Bernard--draws these doctrinal and fellowship lines in the sand domestically, but is so quick to claim someone on the foreign field obviously not Grade-A UPC--because he thinks there might be some good pub coming from it.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Great post ... you've nailed it ... I thought of the Siberian Seven as I went to be last night and their parallel.

I have contacted various Branhamite people in the sites provided and await their take on the matter.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Why don't we pray for this pastor and Bro. Bernard.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Thanks ... we are.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

:thumbsup

And I understand your concerns, Daniel. But just let it be for now.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

I agree with most of what you write - except.....

I think Bro. Bernard is depending on info coming out of Montreal without verifying it independently.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Branham would be considered apostolic by many since he was strong and staunch ONENESS, believed in Baptism in Jesus' name, believed in Acts 2:38 salvation despite not demanding tongues as initial evidence of the Spirit baptism, and even kept a strong "holiness" standard that many apostolics keep. His serpent seed issue was wrong, but so is futurism! ;) I would not say he was a false prophet, either. Serpent seed is false doctrine, but Reckart is an extremist, too. Forget what Reckart says about anyone, though he does quote facts about people that are correct, and others that aren't. But his spirit cannot be trusted.

Several elder UPC ministers personally knew Branham, and I for one believed God genuinely used him in the gifts of the Spirit, though gift use does not mean one is right. Those who knew him believed he was mistaken with some things, likely due to his lack of education, and TW Barnes claims Branham personally told him before his death that he recanted on serpent seed doctrine.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

TL - the walking Apostolic history book. ;)

I don't know if this guy is really an "Apostolic contact" or not; does anyone? Regardless, it does seem like an unfortunate trend to claim any Christian who appears in the news as one of our own. It's kind of disgusting, actually, and I really hope that isn't the case here.

Every worthy cause needs a martyr, and it's pretty despicable to see groups clamoring over who gets to claim the latest and greatest. Hopefully Youcef won't be a martyr at all and can stick with his status of "persecuted." Frankly, I'm surprised the mainstream media hasn't picked this up as a human rights violation, since he's actually being persecuted for rejecting Islam...oh, wait....:D

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

The contact, Miss B, is not Youcef but rather most likely a Pastor Reza from an Iranian multi-cultural ministry at a Montreal UPCI church ... who "knows" the people on the ground over there... including Youcef.

http://upcsaintlaurent.org/en/iranian-ministry

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

I wonder if that certain Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37 asked that certain man (that fell among thieves, who stripped him of his raiment and wounded him and departed, leaving him half dead), if he was Baptist, A of G, UPC, etc

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

I most definitely agree with this sentiment and believe we should even do the same if the wounded is a non-believer or an avowed atheist.

Yet of the thousands of Christians being persecuted worldwide ... this particular pastor drew the attention of the General Supt. ... so much so it is posted on his bulletin to the fellowship ... asking for prayer.

Why, Falla ... did you get the WNOP urgent request?

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Youcef and Behrouz are not Branhamites.

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Yes we would go to the ends of the earth to save, pray, and rescue anyone, however the question is; why claim someone you would not normally claim.

Save them? yes but what could be the gain in "claiming them"? :shifty

Re: DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?
 

Your source, Elder?