How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Not all decision makers have a name tag.

Rationing Meds Of course, this course of action was started long before Obamacare. However, unless this trend is stopped, it will continue. For most folks, this is still a 'non-issue'. That is, until they are the ones directly affected.

See? Here is the meds that might save your life - or at least prolong it for a while. But, since you are no longer viewed as a productive economic unit, you don''t qualify. May your final days not be burdensome on society.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

We are just cattle to the elite.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

My MIL and the family experienced, what I believe, to be just the case. At the very least she experienced the mentality that is taking us there.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

I suppose putting the uninsured into a taxi and dumping them around the corner is not the equivalent of a death panel? If so, then you already have death panels.

I suppose lists of "preferred" medications and "non-preferred" medications and "non-covered" medications is not the equivalent of a death panel? If so, then you already have them.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Arizona's republican governor has already formed a death panel for a poor man with liver problems. This man had a liver from a donner but because of the governors policy she stopped the transplant. The liver went to someone else. He will die within a year unless he can raise half a million dollars.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

He can get a transplant. It just won't be free.

By Phil Galewitz

KHN Staff Writer

Sep 30, 2010


In Arizona, about 640,000 adult Medicaid recipients will lose coverage tomorrow for podiatry care, insulin pumps and most dental services. In Washington, D.C., in November, doctors who treat 250,000 Medicaid patients are scheduled to see their fees cut 20 percent.

These are some of the newest cutbacks in Medicaid as states grapple with surging enrollment -- and spending -- in the government health insurance program for the poor that covers nearly 49 million Americans

Light, the state doesn't collect for medicare. The feds did. The state pays it and much more.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Apples and Bombardier Beetles.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Wii - I do not believe you are speaking from experience about medications.
I deal with this every day and there is no "regular" medicine that would be denied someone, if it was needed.
The pharmaceutical companies themselves have programs that individuals who cannot afford the drugs can apply to and purchase the medications at a reduced rate.
Now it is not "given" to them, but they have to be willing to help with the process.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

If he already had a donor, how did the Governor's policies affect him so that now he does not have a donor?

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer (R) commented recently on the cuts to her state's Health Care Cost Containment System, which have imperiled the lives of some patients in need of an organ transplant. Brewer said that people branding the cuts as a real-life incarnation of "death panels" should be asking the federal government to send more money -- a perhaps surprising position from someone who continues to oppose the federal health care reform legislation passed earlier this year.

Brewer has declined to hold a special session to reinstate the funds, a refusal that leaves some patients' lives hanging in the balance.

Britain's Channel 4 reports on a recent encounter with Gov. Brewer regarding the matter:

"How many people have to die before you are prepared to reverse your decision on the transplant operations?" seemed like the obvious question.
She said she thought that was unfair and started to explain how dire the state's financial situation is. If people are so worried about the transplant patients then they should ask the federal government in Washington to send us more money, she said. But she would not explain to me, or to any Democrats in the state capitol, what she has done with the nearly $200 million she was already given in 'stimulus funds' to spend on anything she liked.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

PHOENIX -- A Valley man was in the surgery room, prepped and ready for his life-saving liver transplant when doctors told him the state's Medicaid plan wouldn't cover the procedure.
Francisco Felix, who has Hepatitis C, has been on the waiting list for a new liver since April, his wife said. A liver became available and Felix was ready for surgery at Banner Good Samaritan Hospital.
Arizona's medicaid agency, AHCCCS, which has recently cut funding for some services, refused to pay for Felix's surgery.
AHCCCS no longer cover liver transplants but not for patients with Hepatitis C, according to Jennifer Carusett, a spokeswoman for AHCCCS.

The cuts were part of the Republican-lead legislature's plan to balance the budget, which Gov. Jan Brewer signed. The policy change took effect Oct. 1.

"I don't understand how she (Brewer) has the heart ... how this one person can make such a difference to all of us," said Sandra Felix, Francisco Felix's neice.
Democratic lawmakers are demanding a special session to discuss reinstating the transplant funds.
Leah Landrum Taylor, a Democrat who represents District 16 in Phoenix said she was horrified by what happened Tuesday.
"When this vote came before the floor, on the senate, we all spoke about what type of ramification this was going to have. When you slice things like this out of the budget, what we said is you're going to be taking away lives. So you're putting lives in your hands and you're going to decide to take it away. I call it a vote of no mercy," said Landrum Taylor.
Republican Rep. John Kavanaugh, from Fountain Hills, said he believed that lawmakers were going to take up the issue of reinstating transplant cuts first thing when they return to work in January. But he also added that he was not opposed to a special session.
The liver Felix hoped to receive Tuesday was directly donated to him by a family friend who suddenly died Monday. But because Felix could not come up with $200,000 by 10a.m. Tuesday, the liver was given to someone else. Felix went to the hospital hoping AHCCCS would fund the operation on an emergency ruling.
"The liver is gone because we don't have the money. That's why we lost this opportunity. But we have hope that something good is going to come," said his wife, Flor Felix.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

In our church we pray for healing.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

I was diagnosed with ILD (Interstitial Lung Disease) several months ago. I was told that there is no cure except for a lung transplant. I am 73 years old and live on a pension and Social Security. In my opinion it would be morally wrong for me to get new lungs if someone younger (especially a parent or wage earner) could use them.

In the case we are discussing here, does the patient have an incurable condition and is he on public assistance/welfare/medicaid/medicare?

Remember the case a few years ago when a prominent baseball "hero" who destroyed his liver by drinking got moved to the top of the list and got a new liver? He didn't live long after that. Should that liver have gone to someone younger?

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

News flash bud light.

I know this young daddy is facing a fatal disease. His main illness is HCV or Hepatitis C. If ruined his current liver. The number one reason of transplant failure in patients with hcv is recurrence of HCV. Within 24 hours his new liver may be infected.

The best way for a young male to get hepatitis is by getting tattoos. I realize transplants are expensive and they are high risk for healthy recipients.

I know you want to attack and blame the cut throat Republican Governor. She played no part in his illness.

Hundreds wait for livers. I vote that the next liver donation goes to a person that doesn't have HIV or HCV.

Just for your medical info. He lost his liver because of HCV. A new liver will not cure his HCV.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

You still did not address that OBVIOUS travesty here....


I can clearly see the comparison of this Governor's decision to the insane, "death panel" scare tactic that her party touted as part of their oppositon to healthcare reform.


Then the nerve she has for telling folks to petition Washington for more funds....

What happened to her mis-spent stimulus funds from Washington?


Surely I am not the only Republican on this forum to see the irony in this tragic situation!


Bottom line: the liver was donated specifically to that guy-- it should have gone to him!


I guess some people would simply let him die because he's going to die anyway.... "Why waste money on his life? It's not our fault he has HCV! Should have been more careful. Oh well...."

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

You seem to be clueless regarding medicine.
Free blood doesn't create free transfusions
Free organs do NOT mean transplants are free.

If water and salt are free, why does a bottle of lactated Ringers IV cost 110 dollars?

The presenting problem is the man is infected with HCV and it stands a strong chance of killing the next liver.

Obama wants our medicine to be like socialized medicine in the UK. They wouldn't cover this either.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Neither does Cigna so I guess we are already down there with the UK aren't we. (BUT they live longer <grin>)

Claim that the choice of living or dying is not already being made in boardrooms and legislative offices all you want. There is NO difference between a Cigna claims processor and an appointed official when the decision is made on the basis of $. Nor is there a difference when the emergency room staff arranges for a taxi to dump uninsured patients on the street around the corner. In all cases the decision to provide treatment is made on the basis of economics. (about that taxi - decision made on the spot by the provider). Do NOT claim "oh its always available blah blah" it is not.

Defending the current system on one hand and bashing a public system for the same reasons and on the same basis that the current system is being overhauled does give the impression of cluelessness......

The death of 17-year-old Nataline Sarkisyan (pictured) has been placed front and center. Sarkisyan died on Dec. 20 after Cigna initially denied her coverage for a liver transplant, citing insufficient evidence that the procedure would be safe or effective. Cigna defended its handling of the case.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

The final one does have a name tag. At the end God decides if you live or die, how long you live, and how you die.

Try not to lose sight of that - He runs the death panel. The best we can do is go at His will with dignity.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

"There is NO difference between a Cigna claims processor and an appointed official when the decision is made on the basis of $."

Wii - this is not true. Cigna as a private company is more willing to work with a patient, than any government agency will ever be. Cigna is also legally liable and the government is not. I have employees that have to work with Cigna/Blue Cross and the government. Guess who actually works with the employees and spends hours in resolving issues? It sure is not the government.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Socialized medicine, medicare runs about twice as many claims rejected as does Cigna. Cigna also runs fraud detection software which the medicare restricts.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Somehow I doubt Ms. Nataline's family takes comfort in Cigna's fraud detection software and the hours and hours that they spend "resolving issues with claims". Just a guess.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Wii - if Ms. Nataline's family feels this decision was in error, they have legal recourse.
If this decision had been made by a government official/panel, there would be no legal recourse.
That is the point.
You are making an assumption that Cigna's decision was in error. What if it was not?
I am dealing right now with a similar issue with an employee of mine.
It is a tough issue, but the private insurance is doing a great job of handling it.
I have no confidence that the government would.

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

from The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us...pagewanted=all



December 25, 2010
Obama Returns to End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir
By ROBERT PEAR

WASHINGTON — When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,” Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the health care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.

Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care, which may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment.

Congressional supporters of the new policy, though pleased, have kept quiet. They fear provoking another furor like the one in 2009 when Republicans seized on the idea of end-of-life counseling to argue that the Democrats’ bill would allow the government to cut off care for the critically ill.

The final version of the health care legislation, signed into law by President Obama in March, authorized Medicare coverage of yearly physical examinations, or wellness visits. The new rule says Medicare will cover “voluntary advance care planning,” to discuss end-of-life treatment, as part of the annual visit.

Under the rule, doctors can provide information to patients on how to prepare an “advance directive,” stating how aggressively they wish to be treated if they are so sick that they cannot make health care decisions for themselves.

While the new law does not mention advance care planning, the Obama administration has been able to achieve its policy goal through the regulation-writing process, a strategy that could become more prevalent in the next two years as the president deals with a strengthened Republican opposition in Congress.

In this case, the administration said research had shown the value of end-of-life planning.

“Advance care planning improves end-of-life care and patient and family satisfaction and reduces stress, anxiety and depression in surviving relatives,” the administration said in the preamble to the Medicare regulation, quoting research published this year in the British Medical Journal.

The administration also cited research by Dr. Stacy M. Fischer, an assistant professor at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, who found that “end-of-life discussions between doctor and patient help ensure that one gets the care one wants.” In this sense, Dr. Fischer said, such consultations “protect patient autonomy.”

Opponents said the Obama administration was bringing back a procedure that could be used to justify the premature withdrawal of life-sustaining treatment from people with severe illnesses and disabilities.

Section 1233 of the bill passed by the House in November 2009 — but not included in the final legislation — allowed Medicare to pay for consultations about advance care planning every five years. In contrast, the new rule allows annual discussions as part of the wellness visit.

Elizabeth D. Wickham, executive director of LifeTree, which describes itself as “a pro-life Christian educational ministry,” said she was concerned that end-of-life counseling would encourage patients to forgo or curtail care, thus hastening death.

“The infamous Section 1233 is still alive and kicking,” Ms. Wickham said. “Patients will lose the ability to control treatments at the end of life.”

Several Democratic members of Congress, led by Representative Earl Blumenauer of Oregon and Senator John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia, had urged the administration to cover end-of-life planning as a service offered under the Medicare wellness benefit. A national organization of hospice care providers made the same recommendation.

Mr. Blumenauer, the author of the original end-of-life proposal, praised the rule as “a step in the right direction.”

“It will give people more control over the care they receive,” Mr. Blumenauer said in an interview. “It means that doctors and patients can have these conversations in the normal course of business, as part of our health care routine, not as something put off until we are forced to do it.”

After learning of the administration’s decision, Mr. Blumenauer’s office celebrated “a quiet victory,” but urged supporters not to crow about it.

“While we are very happy with the result, we won’t be shouting it from the rooftops because we aren’t out of the woods yet,” Mr. Blumenauer’s office said in an e-mail in early November to people working with him on the issue. “This regulation could be modified or reversed, especially if Republican leaders try to use this small provision to perpetuate the ‘death panel’ myth.”

Moreover, the e-mail said: “We would ask that you not broadcast this accomplishment out to any of your lists, even if they are ‘supporters’ — e-mails can too easily be forwarded.”

The e-mail continued: “Thus far, it seems that no press or blogs have discovered it, but we will be keeping a close watch and may be calling on you if we need a rapid, targeted response. The longer this goes unnoticed, the better our chances of keeping it.”

In the interview, Mr. Blumenauer said, “Lies can go viral if people use them for political purposes.”

The proposal for Medicare coverage of advance care planning was omitted from the final health care bill because of the uproar over unsubstantiated claims that it would encourage euthanasia.

Sarah Palin, the 2008 Republican vice-presidential candidate, and Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the House Republican leader, led the criticism in the summer of 2009. Ms. Palin said “Obama’s death panel” would decide who was worthy of health care. Mr. Boehner, who is in line to become speaker, said, “This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia.” Forced onto the defensive, Mr. Obama said that nothing in the bill would “pull the plug on grandma.”

A recent poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation suggests that the idea of death panels persists. In the September poll, 30 percent of Americans 65 and older said the new health care law allowed a government panel to make decisions about end-of-life care for people on Medicare. The law has no such provision.

The new policy is included in a huge Medicare regulation setting payment rates for thousands of services including arthroscopy, mastectomy and X-rays.

The rule was issued by Dr. Donald M. Berwick, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and a longtime advocate for better end-of-life care.

“Using unwanted procedures in terminal illness is a form of assault,” Dr. Berwick has said. “In economic terms, it is waste. Several techniques, including advance directives and involvement of patients and families in decision-making, have been shown to reduce inappropriate care at the end of life, leading to both lower cost and more humane care.”

Ellen B. Griffith, a spokeswoman for the Medicare agency, said, “The final health care reform law has no provision for voluntary advance care planning.” But Ms. Griffith added, under the new rule, such planning “may be included as an element in both the first and subsequent annual wellness visits, providing an opportunity to periodically review and update the beneficiary’s wishes and preferences for his or her medical care.”

Mr. Blumenauer and Mr. Rockefeller said that advance directives would help doctors and nurses provide care in keeping with patients’ wishes.

“Early advance care planning is important because a person’s ability to make decisions may diminish over time, and he or she may suddenly lose the capability to participate in health care decisions,” the lawmakers said in a letter to Dr. Berwick in August.

In a recent study of 3,700 people near the end of life, Dr. Maria J. Silveira of the University of Michigan found that many had “treatable, life-threatening conditions” but lacked decision-making capacity in their final days. With the new Medicare coverage, doctors can learn a patient’s wishes before a crisis occurs.

For example, Dr. Silveira said, she might ask a person with heart disease, “If you have another heart attack and your heart stops beating, would you want us to try to restart it?” A patient dying of emphysema might be asked, “Do you want to go on a breathing machine for the rest of your life?” And, she said, a patient with incurable cancer might be asked, “When the time comes, do you want us to use technology to try and delay your death?”

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

I seem to recall a form at the hospital from some time back that addresses that issue? Is this a new thing then?

Re: How to Recognize Death Panels
 

Hopefully his worst fear has been realized.