Watchman Nee
 

What is your opinion of Watchman Nee's teaching in Spiritual Man concerning the dividing of soul and spirit? I believe he teaches if we deny our soul desires we can live in the spirit. Anyone have any insight. His writings can be read for free at http://www.lsm.org.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

While a fan overall of Watchman Nee, his charismatic ideas, like above, are worthy of discussion, but I think definitely stretched from the reading of the Text to make his case. I find this common in Charismatic circles (dogmatic, radical teaching taken from ambiguous parts of scripture).

Maybe you can be more specific with the forum by offering an excerpt?

Re: Watchman Nee
 

I don't have a specific quote in mind. I believe he teaches from hebrews 4:12 where it says the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword dividing asunder the soul and spirit. He uses that verse to say we need to divide our soul and spirit, where the soul is the fleshly desires and the spirit our Godly desires. We need to break the soul and release the spirit. I was hoping someone had some more insight into this teaching.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

I have long agreed with Nee on spirit, soul and body. I think he had incredible insight and revelation on the subject. I taught THE SPIRITUAL MAN in some churches over a period of weeks.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Nee said that the human spirit and human soul do need to be divided, and that Heb 4:12 says it is the goal of the sword of the Spirit, the Word. Many think they are one and the same faculty within us, but they are not.

But it's not just soulish desires that are the reason for this need of division, but the overall natural inclinations that stem from the soul. For example, the soul is affected by the outward world around us, and can hinder our spirits if they are not divided from our spirits. It made me think of how some people are roller coaster sorts of people, where the outward influences from the world affect their spirituality when they should not. Nee once said that a rainy and miserable day outside can actually cause people to not worship the Lord together as much as the would should the day be sunny and nice. This of course is due to carnality.

He even taught how the early church did not have all the fancy musical instruments we have today. Imagine church services without good music and good singers, with a cloudy and rainy day outside. Then imagine church with beautiful professional music and awesome singers in a bright sunny day. Carnality would cause many believers to hardly worship the Lord in the rainy, lack of music setting, whereas they would likely praise more intensely in the nice setting. If the soul was separated from the spirit, this would not be the case. The spirit would be uninhibited from worshiping regardless of the influences from the surroundings.

The soul drags the spirit down if they are not separated. I think Nee was spot-on on this issue.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

That's some radical deduction, Blume.

Most of us believe in a tri-partite man (Psyche, Soma, Pneuma). But they are inseparable. Sure, we can refer to them separately, but they aren't really separable. This issue of the soul harming the spirit is tricky. I have no problem if you choose to see it that way, but I certainly think it's a stretched deduction.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Do we have a spirit outside of God ? If the soul is the carnal essence of man then what is our spirit ? When we recieve the Holy Ghost, Gods spirit within us, does it take the place of our spirit ? Co-exist with it ?

I guess I have always thought that it was just the soul in man until filled with "a" spirit as we do not have an actual spirit ourselves. If it is the soul that needs saving then what of the spirit ?

But I'm not very learned in this area, just rambling.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

It seems also that carnal-mindedness vs. spiritual-mindedness could be discussed in the exact same scenario...without creating a new need to imagine some unimaginable scene where soul is seperated from spirit.

Those of us who have been delivered from the former captivity of the body of sin, still must reconcile ourselves dead to the influences of being raised under this former taskmaster. The word of God is able to accomplish this miraculous transformation, including the efficacious work of death concerning any unbelief that still impacts our journey from captivity to eternal life.

IMO, the need to seperate soul and spirit is based on discerning that our life choices are result from acting out (by the governance of) our own will after consideration of the witness of life and death that surrounds us.

Seperating for seperating's sake would not be inherently edifying or serving of any particular understanding. But when seperation is provided as a means to establish distinction of source and respondent, an opportunity to see the stimulus and the response is made clear.

I do not see the soul as a drag on the spirit, but rather the need is to understand how our will (motive) is "acting out" in the midst of life and death being set before us.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

I read a book he wrote about spiritual authority so long ago I've forgotten the name of it. Nee described the Father/Son relationship in terms well understood by trinitarians from Phil 2 (the son emptied himself to come to earth, etc) but overall, I thought it dealt with the issue very well.

The soul is separate from the spirit as the body is. (The only thing keeping it all together is the spirit of man, the candle of the LORD)
The soul contains the intellect and emotions that are the primary opponents of the things of the Spirit. We don't have born again emotions or thinking, but we are born again of the spirit. We all know people "born again" of the Spirit that still battle in "soulish" areas like negative emotions, unclean thoughts, etc. This is why it is imperative that pentecostals learn the Word, drink its milk and eat its meat and let it begin to form an intellectual platform our spirits can thrive in, imo.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Imagine? What does Heb 4:12 mean when it speaks of dividing the soul and spirit, then? It is scripture.

Hebrews 4:12 KJV For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I see no problem with what Nee noted. We are spirit, soul and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV (23) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And is it not true that we can battle within ourselves in regards to whether or not we will go after the flesh or the things of the Spirit?

Galatians 5:16-17 KJV This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

A person has to find out biblically what the soul and spirit are. Everywhere we read mention of spirit, it is the contact faculty in our lives for the things of the spiritual. No brainer -- spirit - spirit-UAL. And SOUL is synonymous with LIFE, and is what Christ said we must LOSE in order to gain it again.

Before one dismisses this concept, check throughout the word the useage of soul versus spirit, and see if one can find a difference. I have a list of verses that show their uses and there is a marked difference. And the sou is what needs saving or deliverance.

The soul is the emotions intellect and will, whereas the spirit is our conscience, communion with God and our intuition with which we "hear" from God. All other creatures are called souls -- as only humans have a human spirit.

John 3:6 KJV That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice that the human spirit is born of God's Spirit.

When one studies all the references where soul and spirit are used in scripture, it is not a stretch at all. Simply because this has not been widely heard does not mean it is error.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Some his teachings on head coverings are freaky to me ... he is into the "because of the angels" thing.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Blume, you are conveniently interchanging spirit and Spirit.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Notice who these terms are used and what they are associated with.

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Phil 3:3

It is with our spirits that we communicate with God. We worship in the human spirit. Paul's statement was unique and quite novel, since Israel after the flesh were only involved in carnal ordinances of the law, and physical rituals. Their covenant, in dealing with unregenerated people, could only work in physical rituals due to the inactivity of their human spirits. So, to read of a Jew worshiping God in the spirit, was quite a thing to speak about! Of course, Paul was of the remnant of Israel who were born again, though.

The Catholic Church proposed the error that the spirit is the place of intellect and thought. But everytime you read about the spirit of a man, it is always something SPIRITUAL that is indicated., as we shall see.

Jesus perceived spiritual things in his spirit.

Mar 2:8 KJV And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

Act 6:10 KJV And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

The spirit exudes that special something. When people could not resist Christ's spirit by which he spake, we see indication of anointing and authority -- very spiritual things.

Act 17:16 KJV Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

Again we read where Paul was stirred spiritually. In fact, the plainest manner of discerning what the spirit of a man is is by considering what the term "spiritual" means. Its root word is "spirit". And when we think of spiritual things, we do not think of intellectual things, but of things apart from the reason and intellect of people.

Ministers who are sensitive to the Lord's moving are spiritual people. Paul was described as being pressed in his spirit to speak of the Lord. This is, again, beyond intellect. The intellects oif this world have all but a non-existent spirit, since they are so inactive spiritually.

Act 18:5 KJV And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

Act 18:25 KJV This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

Act 19:21 KJV After these things were ended, Paul purposed in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome.

Paul discerned something in God's will with his spirit. Its as though his spirit agreed with what he felt God's desire to be. This is how the human spirit functions as opposed to the bare intellect and reason.

SOUL

To sum it up, we are made of three elements referred in the Bible as spirit, soul and body. The soul is where our thought processes occur. It is Grand Central Station, so to speak. It is in the soul, where a manner of thinking towards carnal, fleshly pleasures takes place, or another manner of thinking occurs which reaches out for God. The soul will go the route of one of these two avenues of BODY or SPIRIT in order to reach out and communicate, or to learn.


The soul is the seat of human emotion, will and intellect. The following scriptures reveal this to be true.

EMOTION:

...the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him
1 Samuel 18:1

...for whatsoever thy soul desireth:...thou shalt rejoice,
Deut. 14:26

...the soul of all the people was grieved,
1 Samuel 30:6

WILL:

The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
Job 6:7

...set your heart and your soul to seek the LORD your God;
1 Chronicles 22:19

INTELLECT:

...that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good;
Proverbs 19:2

...My soul hath them still in remembrance,
Lamentations 3:20

...When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;
Proverbs 2:10

All three of these faculties are affected by that to which the soul relates. We can be emotionally excited about something physical, or about something spiritual, depending on what "realm" (spiritual or physical) the direction of the soul is pointing.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

No I am not. Look at the posts I just made.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Blume, you're a quick typer! Sheesh!

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Not at all. I studied his thoughts quite intensely. He believes the head covering is a veiling, not hair. And he says the power on the woman's head is her husband, not mystical magic. I have his book on the issue.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

he is a gifted copy and paster from previous writings as well!

Re: Watchman Nee
 

To really get a grasp on the issue of spirit versus soul, we need to break the terms down in the Greek, and notice what Greek words stem from them.

SOUL is PSUCHE, and we get the term PSYCHE (NATURAL) from it.

SPIRIT is PNEUMA, and we get PNEUMATIC (SPIRITUAL) from it.

SPIRITUAL is PNEUMATIKOS while NATURAL is PSUCHIKOS.

See how the Greek term SOUL is involved in the Greek term for NATURAL? And we all know the NATURAL is distinguished from the SPIRITUAL. Since NATURAL and SPIRITUAL are rooted in SOUL and SPIRIT respectively, we should get the idea Nee is proposing quite easily. It might have been easier for us had the English term not been "natural" but rather "soulical", because that is how it reads in the literal Greek. SPIRITUAL is easy since the term SPIRIT is readily seen in SPIRITUAL.

One other word involves the BODY -- CARNAL. CARNAL is a transliteration from the Greek SARX. SARX refers to the fleshly part of the body. So while we have PSUCHIKOS (natural) and PNEUMATIKOS (spiritual), there is also SARKIKOS (carnal.) This takes in the the three parts of man's being. Spirit, soul and body.

So, if NATURAL is analagous to what is OF THE SOUL, and SPIRITUAL is of the SPIRIT, and we read there is a marked contrast from the NATURAL MIND and the SPIRITUAL MIND, cannot we see how the SPIRIT must be divided from the SOUL?

All agree too many believers are NATURALLY minded.

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 KJV (14) But the natural (psuchikos) man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (15) But he that is spiritual (pneumatikso) judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 3:1 KJV And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal (SARKIKOS), even as unto babes in Christ.

Above we have the three kinds of people. Spiritual, Natural and Carnal. Spirit-oriented, soul-oriented and flesh-oriented. Can we not see that the natural mindedness must be divided from the spiritual mindedness?

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:6-7

The last verse says that we cannot understand the things of God with the "carnal" or natural mind. This is saying that one manner of thinking cannot be subject to God's Law and cannot follow His ways.

The manner of thinking which can be subject to God's Law, though, is called spiritual thinking. Paul said that minding the things of the Spirit causes one to be spiritual. However, when we only think of things which our FLESH can relate to, that is, that which only our five senses are aware of (taste, touch, smell, sound and sight), then we will never be able to perceive the things of God. God is not physical, therefore, the physical senses will never discern anything about Him nor be able to interact with Him. We cannot understand God's ways, or laws, through fleshly thinking.

It is spiritual mindedness, says Paul, which leads to life and can be subject to God's laws. Our thinking can be directed through the "flesh" and "body" to perceive physical things. Such fleshly thinking alone will leave us without hope. And Paul said that something called "spiritual" thinking (minding the spirit) is subject to God's laws and is good. So, within us there must be another part that can relate to the spiritual besides the body. The soul can direct its attention to physical things, or natural things, by the body. There must be a part of us through which the soul can direct its attention and be made aware of the unseen, spiritual realities which the flesh cannot relate to whatsoever, if Paul said we can be spiritually minded. Another avenue besides the Body must exist. The Body cannot sense anything that is of the Spirit.

This other avenue indeed does exist, and Paul calls this part of us which can sense the spiritual realm the human spirit.

"To mind the things of the flesh", then, is the type of thinking wherein the soul dwells only upon that which the avenue of the body supplies. And the spiritual mind is experienced as the soul directs its attention towards the avenue of the spirit in order to perceive spiritual things.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

You did multiple times in all the verses you cited.

These categories are nice, and something to consider. But many separate these "faculties" too much. I don't view them as separable. One without the other is not a whole person. We are a whole person (many would use this as a parallel to the Trinity), and not body and soul and spirit. We are person which can theoretically be examined as body, soul, spirit. So in theory, we can discuss these three faculties of personhood, but in reality, there is no separateness.

I know this: we are dead, the Spirit has made us alive. We wrestle against our dead nature that is not fully done away with, and are told to "walk in the Spirit" (in that place of believing God for every area of our life).

When scriptures use language like "dividing even the soul and spirit" we need not believe this is literal speak, and that the Word actually splits apart our soul and spirit, just as much as it doesn't pull our bone from its marrow.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

I had grapples with others about this before this thread! :lol

This is from my website.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Is this a fun topic that you feel you have insight on or a non-negotiable for you? :)

BTW, this topic has been argued since before Nee was ever born. There are really four views and positions (and probably dozens more) on the topic of "What is man."

Re: Watchman Nee
 

They are as separable as NATURAL and SPIRITUAL are separable. In one sense there is no separation, but in another there is. It's as simple as saying we need to stop being naturally minded and become spiritually minded. That is all the separating the soul from spirit is about. Guys, Heb 4:12 flatly says it! If that is not what Heb 4:12 is saying, then what is it saying? You sound like you are refuting the terms used in Heb 4:12.

And we do that by not allowing the natural mind to rule our lives, which it has the tendency to do, which is what Heb 4:12 calls separating them. The natural mind tends to overwhelm the spiritual aspect of us, and it is simply a case of changing what rules what in our lives. For that reason, SPIRIT is listed first in 1 Thess 5:23, and not soul. It is a list of descending elements in the sense of what is most important is listed from top to bottom.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Blume, becoming spiritually-minded is not connecting with one part of who we are while abandoning the other. This is that word inter-change that I'm referring to. Spirit-minded is relational to God. Walking after the Spirit (big "S") is a way of saying "after God's ways, in His reality, etc"

The opposite of the natural mind is "God's mind."

I'm not refuting terms in Heb 4:12, I'm offering an interpretation, just as you have done.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

This is really great stuff Bro. Blume. I still ask the question, do we have a spirit prior to being filled ?


Again, you have given reference to the soul prior to Acts but nothing of man working in the spirit. As per my last post, do we actually have a spirit outside of Gods infilling ?

Re: Watchman Nee
 

I studied this issue out in the 80's quite intensely and really got to appreciate Watchman Nee's thoughts on it in THE SPIRITUAL MAN - a great book he wrote on the issue. I am just explaining what I see in this. You folks can believe what you want. :thumbsup. But someone asked.

It is not a salvational issue for sure, but I do believe it is a key to growing spiritually. It basically is saying we need to feed our spiritual aspect more than our natural aspect, and prioritize that spiritual aspect. That is really all that dividing the soul from the spirit really means. I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill, and you essentially agree with what I am saying, but just never thought to use Heb 4:12 to term it that way.

Picture the soul as Ishmael, and the spirit as Isaac. Jesus said the SPIRIT, not soul, is born again of God's Spirit. The SPIRIT was dead in trespasses and sins. Not the soul. The soul was alive and well since natural birth. But something came alive in us that was formerly dead when we were born again. The human spirit. I think it is the spirit that died the day Adam ate the forbidden fruit.

Andrew Murray was heavily into this, as well as FB Meyer, Gene Edwards, and many others. It seems apostolics have not been exposed to this aspect of the scriptures very much since they got overly enamoured over talking in tongues! lol

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Yes we do, but it is dead and empty. Inactive and dormant. Infilling of God's Spirit makes it alive! And God and our spirits become ONE. The human spirit is like the MOST HOLY PLACE where the Holy Ghost indwells us. The SOUL is the holy place where most activity goes on -- the thoughts and emotions, etc. The Body is the OUTER COURT. Altogether they make us the temple of the Holy Ghost.

Yes, and the reason it is little referred to, although it is, is because without God's Spirit it is dormant and inactive.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

It is my understanding that we humans are a three-fold being:
spirit
soul
body

The spirit relates to God and is dead (spiritually) until regeneration at which time the human spirit and God's Spirit become joined (ref 1 Cor 6:17)
The soul is the will, emotions, memory, mind, etc and relates to other humans.
The body is our physical part.

Salvation includes body, soul, and spirit.
Our spirit was saved when Jesus came in.
Our soul is being saved as we grow and develop in God and our mind is renewed (Ref Romans 12:2
Our body will be saved at the first resurrection when the mortal becomes immortal and the corrupt becomes incorrupt

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Feeding the natural man more than the spirit man (and however you compartmentalize and figure all that out), couldn't it be said another way: The answer is in Jesus! Believe! Walk with Him! Become! Abandon and deny yourself and yield to my way of living life... isn't this where we are getting at?

Actually, Watchman Nee and the Psyche, Soma, Pneuma teaching is quite popular in Apostolic circles (where I heard it first). It's very popular and is taught in most of the Apostolic Bible schools, where Nee is often a textbook.

I think you are right that we probably agree with more than you are saying. My heckling over semantics is how people come up with these tidy categories to figure this out instead of the simplicity of the Gospel. I think sometimes we geek out on things that the Gospel has said quite simply.

Like saying only one part of us was dead in sin. Mike, all of man, down to a molecular level was wrecked by sin. All of creation, all of mankind, every part of us (now we are flirting with Original Sin tangents). But it wasn't just one part of me that was dead in sin. And it's undeniable that soul and spirit in the Bible are used often interchangeably quite often.

This is a Theology II topic in most mainstream Protestant Bible Colleges as well...

Re: Watchman Nee
 

This is essentially what Blume and others believe.

I sort of believe that.

But I recognize our curse was on all levels, not one tidy box that we compartmentalize. All of us was saved when Jesus came in, not just our Spirit. This is the already/not yet continuum of Paul's. We are already saved, but not yet fully. This multiple personality explanation gives off some great anxiety about man as a whole person. My spirit is saved but my soul isn't yet? All of us is saved, but not yet fully redeemed.

My spiritual growth is not a compartment.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Of course if a person is strong into the three-step message, Watchman Nee is just another sinner who was lost while alive, teaching, and preaching and is now in the fires of Hades awaiting future transfer to the Lake of Fire.

To us one-steppers he was justified/saved/born again and a brother in the Lord.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

You are not getting the concept. It is not abandoning the other. It is cutting off the other's unhealthy influence over the other. The soulish (natural) person is TOO enamoured over the things it relates to -- the SELF concept and the world.

I once made a diagram to explain what this is saying, that I think helps the picture. The SOUL is our major faculty as far as activity goes. THE MIND. That is why the bible calls us LIVING SOULS. And it is accustomed to looking through the window of the BODY too much. It dwells upon what the body can relate to -- the five senses and what those senses are aware of. But there is a spiritual universe, as we all know, that the CARNAL mind does not even consider. That is why we have a spirit. Our spirits are the windows for our souls to the SPIRITUAL realm. I mean, consider the use of the terms SPIRITUAL, NATURAL and CARNAL to see this.

And it is not abandoning our SOULS by saying we divide them from our SPIRITS, but rather not allowing the natural mind to negatively influence our souls. Too many believers allow what they perceive naturally (literally "soulishly") to dictate their SPIRITUAL states. When things are bad NATURALLY, their spirits are overwhelmed and they cannot pray not worship, etc.

Psalms 77:1-6 KJV To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of Asaph. I cried unto God with my voice, even unto God with my voice; and he gave ear unto me. (2) In the day of my trouble I sought the Lord: my sore ran in the night, and ceased not: my soul refused to be comforted. (3) I remembered God, and was troubled: I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah. (4) Thou holdest mine eyes waking: I am so troubled that I cannot speak. (5) I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient times. (6) I call to remembrance my song in the night: I commune with mine own heart: and my spirit made diligent search.

Notice the Psalmist focuses on the things of the spirit when his spirit is overwhelmed. What overwhelms the spirit is the surroundings that affect the soul to the point that the soul is so stricken with emotion etc., that the spirit is affected and cannot remain at peace. So the spirit is focused on the things of God.

WE NEED THE SOUL'S functions. We do not abandon it. We just divide its influence from our spirits, so that no matter what happens in life that the soul relates to, the spirit is unaffected in our relationship with God.

I disagree. But that is one interpretation. I believe the KJV people put a capitol S for God's SPIRIT and lower case s for man's spirit.

You mean the spiritual mind of a person. That is God's mind, for sure. We are supposwed to be spiritual and think the way God does.

Sure, it's a free world.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

It is a set of compartments, just as the temple had most holy place, holy place and outer court. But SPIRIT INFILLING is when spirit, soul and body are all submitted to and influenced by God's Spirit. It is not VOLLUME that is inferred in the Greek, but degree of YIELDING.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Have fun at the lab measuring your compartments. I'll just continue to strive to listen to the voice of God.... somehow it all works out :)


Whatever language you use to describe each of these components, and whatever passion it gives you. I enjoy other parts of theology just the same. Myself, the person, does not want to do what's right. The things I want, I don't... etc... That's not a description of one part of me, that's a description of me.

In the end, as long as a wacky doctrine doesn't spawn from Nee-like teachings, it's just a thing of semantics and something for discussion.

Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Him... in whom you already believed.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Yes. SOUL is SELF. It is the LIFE Jesus said to LOSE in order to find again. Denying yourself is not allowing self to become your major focus, and instead focusing on Him since He is King in His Kingdom. SOUL has the inbred craving to exalt itself.

The simplicity of the Gospel is not talking about simplicity in the sense of not hard to understand. SIMPLICITY is referring to the SINGLE FOCUS of our faith, which is towards one God. Paul urged us towards the deep things of God, remember.

Of course. But that does not mean our spirits were the detailed parts of us that were actually dead. Throw the spirit out of kilter and we are all messed up.

We as people were dead in sin, but there are too many detailed statements made in the bible concerning spirit, soul and body that are not synonymous, too.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

A person does not have to have the details down pat, nor the proper jargon, so long as one understands what you just stated here. But one will not understand certain verses, like Heb 4:12 without the proper and God-took-time-to-inspire-the-details jargon. Why look at these details as geeking it out, when God simply inspired the terms. Spirit and Soul are no more synonymous than spiritual and natural. I think you should consider those offshoot terms in order to determine what spirit and soul mean.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Not all three steppers are as judgmental as others. I think Nee had more on board than the vast majority of three steppers, and I am a three stepper.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Sorry, the Gospel (God's story) is understood simply, and many come to believe Jesus through that Story... by the Spirit. The fishermen that Jesus walked with weren't academics. The deeper things of God don't require volumes of literature, they require a greater abandonment of self, and living in prodigal Grace. The more we believe in Him, the greater the grace we live out. It's not measurable or comparable (thankfully, because the self-righteous would hijack a beautiful thing), but it's surely a "deeper thing."

Obviously, I'm a great advocate and supporter of study and learning. It's a personal passion of mine. But I don't confuse that with things like the "Simplicity of God's Story -- ie, The Gospel."

Regarding your view of our depravity, I guess I'd continue to disagree. ALL OF MAN (he can't be separated, he is one being) was wrecked by sin. We couldn't come to God on our own. We still can't -- we need to drawing and assistance of the Spirit, and even prevenient Grace to respond. We were dead. Body, soul, spirit... done. Dead.

You are right that there are places where it wasn't synonymous. And I'm also glad you acknowledge there are many places where soul and spirit are, indeed, synonymous.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Natural and spiritual have never been used as synonyms. Always antonyms. They compete. Body, soul and spirit is man.

Hebrews 4 doesn't require a sign-off of your ideas to "properly understand the Word." Heb 4 isn't even about body, soul and spirit. It's in the context of God's rest. These places we know little of, "soul and spirit," "joint and marrow" are ways of showing that God's promises (see the citations that are quoted in Isa), His Word exposes our innermost desires and thoughts. v13 "Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, and he is the one whom we are accountable."

Given that vulnerability, the chapter ends with "So then... we have Jesus who understands our weaknesses... let us come boldy before the throne of our gracious God, there we will receive mercy, and we will find the grace to help us when we need it most."

In conclusion, I don't have to take the Tangent roller coaster and sign-off on Nee's Body, Soul Spirit to understand what is being said here.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

But Natural is literally SOUL-ICAL AND SPIRITUAL is SPIRIT-UAL. So how can spirit and soul be synonyms?

You have a right to your interpretation. Again, spiritual is not natural. Spirit and soul are not synonymous.

Re: Watchman Nee
 

Bro. Blume,
I am not being argumentative but I wonder just how you look at people like Watchman Nee who obviously loved the Lord and had an experience with the Lord but did not agree with OP theology. Some of us accept them as full brothers and sisters; some of us accept them as being conceived but not born into the family of God; others think of them as lost and hell-bound sinners. I don't want to hijack this thread but wonder just what we OP's do with people like this. Bro. Norris and others accepted them as "righteous" and as going to heaven (not as part of the Church/Body of Christ/Bride) based on walking in all the light they had.