Levels of sin
 

Just for the sake of discussion. Is there not different levels of sin? a simple example.. A man steals and feeds his family or the same man hits abuses and hurts his family. I think if we finite humans can understand the difference in sins.. Surely the allknowing God of heaven understands the difference. The blanket statement that sin is sin and it'll all take you to hell anyways so it's all the same has always been an ignorant thing for someone to say. God understands the intent and sees the ending when all we see through is a dark glass.

Re: Levels of sin
 

Uh, no. Do you not understand God's commandment's? Thou shalt not is very plain.

Re: Levels of sin
 

Really? You don't think God takes into account the intent of a transgression?

Re: Levels of sin
 

We have classified sins as mortal and venial, and, of course some holiness folks have long lists of things that are "sins" that don't seem to bother the consciences of other Christians.

Re: Levels of sin
 

I don't think we can "accidentally" sin. Sin is willful disobedience to God's laws. You brought up stealing to feed a family as well as abusing your family. Which intent was okay? I love you so I will steal for you, I love you but I will abuse you? Because most people that abuse their souses claim to love them. Most pedophiles claim they are showing love to their victims. You don't think God knows the difference?

Re: Levels of sin
 

Or maybe steal to feed your family, or steal to feed your addiction? Something like that? Stealing for any reason is sin.

Re: Levels of sin
 

I agree.. All stealing is sin. But.. Molesting your child versus stealing to feed your child is a huge difference in the sight of the God I understand.

Re: Levels of sin
 

Both can be forgiven, still doesn't mean that it isn't a sin.

Re: Levels of sin
 

The punishment is the same under the law of sin ... death ... from the self-righteous pew sitter to the serial killer.

A lying tongue and breaking a vow is as much an abomination as are your pet abominations, Tim.

The differences, perceptions and nuances lie in how the consequences play out among us mortals based on values we attach.

Re: Levels of sin
 

The Apostle Paul spoke of differences in sin in
1 Corinthians 5:1 where there was fornication in the church that would not even be named among the Goyim.

And in 1 Corinthians 6:15-20 where he spoke of Christians who were joining their bodies, which are the temple of God, to the bodies of harlots.

Re: Levels of sin
 

I don't know if I'd call it "accidental" but ...

I think our carnal nature is so wrought with sin we can sin even subconsciously ... how to explain lustful dreams?

That came from somewhere within us ... or the toddler who lies even before they really understand they are lying.

Re: Levels of sin
 

You have lustful dreams DA?

Re: Levels of sin
 

What this thread is about is different levels of sin.. It seems most Christians cannot wrap their brain around that. Sometimes I percieve were too black and white. Heroin addiction is much more damaging then caffeine addiction.. Yet addiction is sin. Bigger "spirits" control different sins and or temptations to the human mind, that are potentially much more harmful to our long term spiritual psyche.

Re: Levels of sin
 

I've had dreams that I wake up saying ... where did that come from ... my wife has shared such dreams.

You Steve????

Re: Levels of sin
 

We can have sinful thoughts, if we don't act upon them are we sinning?

Re: Levels of sin
 

Levels of sin demand levels of punishment too!!

The Great Dante to the rescue!

1 Overview and vestibule of Hell
2 The nine circles of Hell
2.1 First circle (Limbo)
2.2 Second circle (lust)
2.3 Third circle (gluttony)
2.4 Fourth circle (greed)
2.5 Fifth circle (anger)
2.6 Sixth circle (heresy)
2.7 Seventh circle (violence)
2.8 Eighth circle (fraud)
2.9 Ninth circle (treachery)

Re: Levels of sin
 

I may have but none specifically come to mind... i don't recall. :)

Re: Levels of sin
 

I've had dreams that I'm sure didn't come from God.
I assume they came from one of satan's angels or from my old (human) nature.

Re: Levels of sin
 

But what is their fount ??? .... we'd like to blame the devil ... but they are sinful as you have described them ... full of sin.

It's our sin nature .... our carnality ... that produced them.

It is this very thing ... that requires us to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ ... our justification runs deep.

Re: Levels of sin
 

So you believe God categorizes sin? He would prefer we steal than kill?

Re: Levels of sin
 

Temptation is not sin, it is whether we give in to temptation that is a sin.

Re: Levels of sin
 

I have not studied it out. But the Word says there is a sin unto death and there is a sin or sins that are not unto death. My point being if I as a pitiful mortal being can recognize the difference between giving someone a dirty look or lopping their head off.. Both sins. I know God judges and understands sins have different levels of evil.

Re: Levels of sin
 

Christian perfectionism?

It's our reliance on Christ that renders us perfect - not our actual ability to be perfect in deed.

Re: Levels of sin
 

You may be right. I would much prefer being cursed to my face, than gossiped about behind my back. Guess which one some Christians do the most? So which one is the greater sin?

Re: Levels of sin
 

All unrighteousness calls for the wrath of God ....

Romans 1

None righteous ... Tim ...

Romans 3
The wages of sin ... is death ...

God is no respector of persons ... is a phrase that deals with how he views SIN ...

Romans 1 tells us the penalty as well ...

While condemning those who think they are not "ungodly .... "

Re: Levels of sin
 

Yes, sir.

Guys like Michael the Disciple preach another gospel ... when it comes to perfectionism.

Re: Levels of sin
 

Jesus said if we look (think) upon a woman to lust we have committed adultery in our heart... That would be sin. But.. Committing the sin in the physical realm is a worse level of sin to man and to God.

Re: Levels of sin
 

I firmly believe that some in Apostolica ... have not read Romans.

It's the book after Acts.

Re: Levels of sin
 

It's exactly the opposite. Finite humans quantify sin, especially the West.

In the eyes of God, acting out in a way that displeases God, that disobeys him is all the same. Our unrighteousness is unrighteousness. Not good unrighteousness and worse unrighteousness. On a practical level, some sins have greater impact on others, and by their very nature have practical consequences that are greater. But in a spiritual sense, the load of guilt is all the same to God.

Re: Levels of sin
 

:santathumb

Re: Levels of sin
 

That's why we can't judge, only God sees the heart. If you cheat on your wife are you worse than a thief?

Re: Levels of sin
 

You just said that thinking it is the same as adultery to God ... the only one that would know you (generically speaking) are a secret adulterer is God ... who knows our thoughts ...

The committing in the physical realm would have grave consequences among us ... your wife, kids, family .. friends ... church members ...

The hurt, betrayal ... grief ... etc ... is felt among us.

Both the inward and outward act deserve death before a holy God...

That is why our justification by faith through Christ is paramount ... as well as walking in the Spirit.

Re: Levels of sin
 

Thank you. :thumbsup

Re: Levels of sin
 

Amen

Re: Levels of sin
 

There are more adulterers walking around in the eyes of God than we'd care to know ...

But committing it will add a social stigma that may never be forgiven by those we hurt ...

Re: Levels of sin
 

What's your opinion on 1st John 5:16&17?

Re: Levels of sin
 

It is hard to forgive, and to forget.

Re: Levels of sin
 

There are anemic Apostolics in the word because all they can quote is Acts 2:38 and "Greater is he that is in me, than he that is the world"

Read ... study ... analyze ... digest Romans .... it will change your life ...

It did for Martin Luther ... it changed history as we know it ...

This also applies to the whole counsel of the Word.

Re: Levels of sin
 

I'd recommend you read various commentaries on this Tim ....

There are a multitude of opinions on this ... but a rule to bible interpretation is that one scripture does not make a doctrine ... we must allow other scripture to interpret scripture and they must harmonize ... find a witness for it throughout the Word ... and use the entire context of the chapter and thought.

Context is important in any discussion. A theological one as well ... even looking at the historical context and authorial purpose for why a book was written.

Find the lists of of the works of the flesh and unrighteousness in the Word ... and how God's responds to them ... like in Romans and in Galatians and Revelation ...

I see lying lumped with murdering in the same fiery pit.

Compare them ....

In my study ...

I do know of one sin that is unto death in Scripture: unbelief ...

John himself says so ... in the previous verses.

1 John 5:10-13 (King James Version)

10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Ultimately ...

Jesus said it clearly: .... He that believeth not shall perish ...

Re: Levels of sin
 

Of course there are degrees of sin. There are sins like homosexuality, murder, rape, incest.

Then there are serious sins like trimming hair, watching TV, and the granddaddy of them all, not paying tithes.