Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Make it
 

I was just wondering how complicated and convoluted can we make things, especially the only plan of salvation.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost:

There you have it. The kingdom of God.

Without the Holy Ghost. There is no:

1. Righteousness
2. Peace
3. Joy

Finally, without the Holy Ghost, there is no Kingdom of God.

Seems simple enough to me. How complicated is THAT?

Just in case I might have missed something as to whether the Holy Ghost has an eternal importance in regards to salvation:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Some folks sure can get squirrelly when you present the truth. I can hear it now in a whiny voice, "That don't apply to me, it says, 'if any man,' and everyone can see I'm just a poor helpless woman."

Someone else might say, "It don't apply to me, I'm a trans-gender." Someone else might say, "I'm not sure if that applies to me or not since I'm not sure what I am."

Another might say, "UN-HUH Charlie Brown!!!!" It does not say "Holy Ghost," it says "Spirit of Christ."

Then, all of a sudden darkness seems to break out everywhere as the last flicker of flame from the candle of understanding dies from the lack of oxygen.

Some whisper softly and so soothingly in the cold, dark night air, "Just go to sssss leeeeeeep. Clooooooose your pretty little eyes, lean back and take a deep breath of this good sleeping gas. Everything is oooooooo kay. You are a goooood church member. Everything is already all taken care of. Have no fear. Don't fret your pretty little self. Just sssssss leeeeep. Aaaah, now! Don't that feel better? There is no alarm in sleep. Neither is there cause for concern and certainly no fear.

Soon the infused eternal sleep of death, like the sting of the scorpion, has taken hold. Finally, the last disturbing memory before eternal separation from this life and from this sunny side of eternity resounds in their memory but too late to do anything about it:

IPe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

But if this slumbering soul can awaken himself in time to go buy oil for himself, from the merchants of oil (that's me, an Acts 2:38 preacher) before the midnight cry is made, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh, go yet out to meet him," he has yet a little time to buy the oil and trim his lamp to be ready.

But, the thief, the murderer also, would steal away this message and leave the dying man alone with continued assurances that there is nothing to worry about or to fear. Just ssssss leeeeep. You don't have to receive the promise of the Father and get that there Holy Ghost...after all, neither John Wesley, D.L. Moody or Elvis Presly had it either...so why should you worry your little sweet heart?

Yes. Jesus paid it all. Yes, Stalin, Hitler, and the Boston Strangler too, all were free from the Sin of Adam since Jesus paid it all. The whole world is free by the work of Grace paid for on the cross. The counsels of heaven have declared all men free of Adam's sin by the price that Jesus paid. All of creation is free. That's why little children's conscience is free of guilt until they grow up and become aware of their OWN sin. Until, then, there is no repentance required of them since there is no sin laid to their charge. Those little children will go to heaven regardless where their sorry, ungodly parents end up.

When they become old enough to sin and have their conscience contaminated by the stain of sin, Jesus paid it all for them too by the same gracious act of the cross. Nevertheless, REPENTANCE is absolutely imperative, as is the Baptism that saves us. Grace has provided all things for the sinner who commits sin as well as the sin of Adam that was passed down upon every generation until the cross.

The love of God is greater far than tongue or pen could ever tell.... That love included you and I too, but it is given to us with a promise by which we can appropriate for ourselves the innocence of Adam before he transgressed, or the innocence of a new born baby before he is hold enough to become aware of the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH...i.e. "The soul that sinneth, it shall surely die."

Meanwhile, pay no attention to this stark raving mad, condescending, pompous preacher standing at the head of the way, sounding so loudly.

Just sssssss leeeeep.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

No mincing of words, nor guessing here! :)

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

I hear the Savior say,
“Thy strength indeed is small;
Child of weakness, watch and pray,
Find in Me thine all in all.”

Refrain:
Jesus paid it all,
All to Him I owe;
Sin had left a crimson stain,
He washed it white as snow.

For nothing good have I
Whereby Thy grace to claim;
I’ll wash my garments white
In the blood of Calv’ry’s Lamb.

And now complete in Him,
My robe, His righteousness,
Close sheltered ’neath His side,
I am divinely blest.

Lord, now indeed I find
Thy pow’r, and Thine alone,
Can change the leper’s spots
And melt the heart of stone.

When from my dying bed
My ransomed soul shall rise,
“Jesus died my soul to save,”
Shall rend the vaulted skies.

And when before the throne
I stand in Him complete,
I’ll lay my trophies down,
All down at Jesus’ feet.

I can still hear Bro. Don Johnson of the ALJC singing this. And thank you, Bro App for the good Word.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Yes, how correct you are! The "Plan of Salvation" has been complicated by some to the point it's butchered beyond all recognition!

I'm amazed that some would take the simplicity of the cross, simple faith in what Christ has done for us, and attempt to complicate the issue with codes, requirements, formulas, and creeds. Salvation, the incredible covering that was provided on the cross, has been turned, by many, into a complicated mix of actions and formulas on our part...for example, particular phrases and words said at baptism, requiring someone to same something no one understands, followed by an adherence to rules, regulations, and dress codes invented by man and not supported by scriptural directives or principles.

1) Romans 10:4......"All who believe in him are made right with God."

2) Romans 10:8..."Salvation that comes from trusting Christ–which is the message we preach–is already within easy reach."

3) Romans 10:10..."For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved."

4) Acts 13:39..."Everyone who believes in him is freed from all guilt and declared right with God"

5) Acts 16:31... "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved."

6) Romans 5:1..."Therefore, since we have been made right in God's sight by faith, we have peace with God because of that Christ our Lord has done for us."

7) John 11:25..."Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die like everyone else, will live again."

8)...Galatians..."...that the Cross of Christ alone can save."


It's appalling how people can take the simplicity of the gospel, the simplicity of salvation accomplished through the sacrifice of Calvary, and complicate it!

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Gpod ol' Larry Flynt the publisher of the Hustler Magazine is going to right there with the President Carter's sister who led him to the cross alone and made confession, just like the scriptures state.

Good ol' Larry never had to repent. He just kept on destroying the young minds of millions and made millions doing it.

Never had to turn away in repentance calling on the name of the Lord in baptism. Never had to come out of the world. All he had to do was just give mental ascent that Carter's sister was right in what she told him.

Just ssssssss leeeeeep. Nothing like that crazy repentance stuff, coming out of the world, picking up the cross and keeping God's commandments is required. All of that is crazy talk. Never mind "SAVE YOURSELVES FROM THIS UNTOWARD GENERATION."

All of the scriptures you quoted above is TRUTH. But, according to your interpretation, we just need to tear out about half of the bible. Among the many portions that we need to take Baaruk" pin knife to is:

Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Some interesting words contained in this scripture if the words are not taken away either by falsifying them or just omitting them entirely:

1. Blessed... as opposed to miserable or tortured.

2. DO, his COMMANDMENTS....as opposed to doing nothing.

3. Have a RIGHT. Greek: exousia. That is, legal authority. Privledge, Power, Liberty, able, free.

4. TREE OF LIFE. Without which fruit there is no salvation and without which leaves there is no healing. Only death, destruction and loss forever will result.

5. ENTER. That is to have access to. Entrance to which there are eternal blessedness and felicities.

6. INTO THE CITY. That's the New Jerusalem that John saw coming down from God out of heaven.

Not complicated at all, unless one is stung by the sting of the scorpion in which death is induced. Foolish is the man who believes he an give a mental acknowledgment and verbal consent that a thing is so, go on without repentance and doing God's commandments, and then believe he will spend eternity in heaven with his corrupt image then revealed in the heavenly light. No words can express how foolish is that man.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Do you honestly believe that John Wesley, D.L. Moody, and Elvis Presley did not have Jesus Christ dwelling in them as the Holy Spirit?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

WOW, NOW!!!!
:thumbsup

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

No sir.

Neither one of them had the Holy Ghost.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Sam,

Do you actually believe someone can go to heaven without turning away from their debauchery by simply imagining something to be truth told to them as truth?

Do you believe that the bright radiance and pure holiness of heaven will comport with the marred form of hellish appearance simply because they said that they believe what they were told about the cross alone?

Surely, you cannot believe that. No reasonable person can believe that can possibly be the case.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

I think I'm gonna opt out of your Theory of Relativity look-alike plan of salvation and just go with "The Cross Alone Can Save"!

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Did he say that????? Did he say that John Wesley and D.L. Moody did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit????

Surely not.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

He DID!!!!!!

:ursofunny

How in the heck can you say such a completely pious, theologically-arrogant thing??? How dare you condemn the Christ-relationships of these great pioneers of the faith???

ZERO credibility!!!! Zilch!

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Yup!

Sure did.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Bible says he give etenal salvation to them that OBEY him.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Hahaha!

Oh how poor I must be having lost credibility with you.

btw, I don't have to condemn them, they are condemned already.

They never ONCE saw the SON OF GOD.

I am now beginning to believe that you have never seen the SON of God...or His Father.

Mull over that for a few minutes...or for the rest of eternity.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

If salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, then how could we in good conscience add anything to thus? I mean, if Christ saves, and we are indeed so sinful, then how dare we think we could anything of our sinful selves to the equation to make us holy along with the Cross?

I believe baptism should be in Jesus name, but I believe this is a command subsequent to salvation. If baptism saves, then salvation is man's work helping Christ, and not a work of Christ alone.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Who commanded baptism? God or man? Did man invent baptism?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Even accepting Christ is a work, isn't moving your lips to pray a work? :)

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

You claim baptism saves. So then must we add our work with God's, or is Christ sufficient?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Condemned and restored through faith in Christ.

Something very important has come up so I'll have to mull over your brilliant statement later. My son asked me to play Madden Football with him. Later.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Who commanded baptism? God or man? Did man invent baptism?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

How do you know this?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

I'm gone ah go into hiding. I know when a prophet shows up... BYE!

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

I know it because their own testimony bears it out.

They never saw the Son of God, much less believe on His Name.

Incidentally, neither did Pilate, Caiaphas, rulers of the Pharisees who lived at time.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Wait... you are losing me...seeing the Son of God is proof of receiving the Holy Spirit?

How did they not believe on his name?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Wesley, Moody and Elvis didn't live "at [this] time. "

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Forgive me, but the us-4-and-no-more mentality is not right. There are millions os Spirit filled men of God who do not adhere to Jesus name baptism, whose walk is of continual repentance and faith in Christ alone, from numerous denominations around the world.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Apprehended,

You have been away to long. This is what has happened here in the last few years. Its refreshing to see someone take a stand for the gospel.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Does take a stand = everyone goes to hell that doesn't see things my way?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

So they themselves claimed they did NOT have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

That is stretching the truth a bit don't you think, NOW?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

It's the typical, "My group is the only one that's right." The bible actually addresses that in Galatians 5 and identifies that mentality as one of the works of the flesh:

When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 NLT)

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Bump for Apprehended. Interested in answering?

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...1&postcount=10

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

NOW, I didn't know that you wrote Scripture.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

That I wrote scripture?

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

"the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group,"

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Hey, it's in there. I just copied and pasted.


http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...&v=1&t=NLT#top



Verse 20

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

You are right, I read it and missed it completely.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

Of course I'm right!!! You doubted it??? :lol Actually, that line doesn't appear in the NLT Second Edition. All my NLT's are the original....my personal preference.

Re: Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Mak
 

How do you know that????

Bt