When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m8Egtgui9I

A friend of mine compiled this video "documenting the strong pacifist roots of the Holiness-Pentecostal faith-- roots largely forgotten in the 21st century."

The truth is this was the message of most of the evangelical world for a long time. War hawks usurped position and now the religious right preaches the sanctity of life for the unborn while seeking to nuke, inject and hang those who they demonize.

Very strange.

There is a testament to this pacifism in the conscientious scruples article of the UPCI, adapted from the PCI manual. Today ministers send their little boy warriors to killing fields as a badge of honor while vilifying a woman for wearing as much as a dab of makeup or britches.

Twisted and warped.

Dr. King, whose legacy we honor this Monday,once was the moral evangelical compass of a movement, a generation ago, that abhorred war. Now it seems leaders of the religious right call for arms if it means refusing Islamic houses of worship being built or if a democrat proposes a tax hike.

Heck yeah, we have lost our compass.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

To DKB's credit he has written in one of his holiness books to this effect ... I will quote it later.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

DKB is definitely a Pacifist.

Not a popular position in the Western world, or the US of A these days.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

I am familiar with the historical pacifist stance of the UPC. I was amazed once when seeing military lauded on the front cover of Reflections magazine. It's almost like a pants wearing career woman being lauded on a UPC mag in 15 years.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlZ8nUijmQg

MLK doing his best Jeremiah Wright impression.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

Idealistically speaking, I agree with pacifism. In reality, it's a hard pill to swallow for anyone who cares about their family, property, community and country. I agree that it's the Christian ideal.

Then again, I don't if I would have it in me to stand by and not recant while my children were ripped to shreds in front of me like the early martyrs. I would like to think I could, but I don't *know* that I could. I would like to think that if someone broke into my house, I could trust God to protect us and get the intruder to leave by dropping to my knees and praying for his soul; in reality, I would probably grab the baseball bat by the door and hit him with it, assuming he didn't get me first.

What is ideal and what I can really do are two different things. The protection of life, liberty and property are important to us; should they be?

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

At best, (or worst?) I am a recovering pacifist...

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

Pacifism does not advocate not defending yourself. It speaks against violence. Shame on the father who would stand by like a coward if his daughter was being molested. There's ways to defend the oppressed and weaker without becoming killing machines.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

He has expressed views regarding capital punishment as well that would not sit well with the freaky con theocrats.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

Thank you ... or continuing to massacre others in the name of collateral damage when there are no weapons of mass destruction, except ours ... just designs of nation building.

Life, liberty and right to property only when it's our backyard .... not just not in Baghdad, Tehran, Hiroshima and Nagasaki's.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

My grandfather and great uncles were conscientious objectors during WWII. That's what they were instructed to do by their church when they were drafted.

My grandfather never left the mainland and worked as a dental assistant in the army. My great uncle was a medic in Europe.

I have to agree with Miss Brattified on this issue. :thumbsup

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

I was in one of the last groups to register for the draft in Vietnam. Had I been drafted I would have gone in as a conscientious objector, but I would have served. Even if with the medical corp on the front line.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

A question for those of you who consider yourselves Pacifists - should a Christian never join the military? If drafted, become a conscientious objector?

I'm not real sure how I feel about it.

I do find that I am probably more isolationist than recent administrations. I believe the military should be used to protect sovereignty and defend borders. I become real uncomfortable when we get into nation building.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

It is one thing to stand on a corner in a free country protected by those who keep you safe from the likes of Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong-il and talk about the evils of war.

It is another thing to be in the position of a Dr. King and have neither the force nor the authority to oppose the oppressor. Just because King was not only effective and right in his opposition of the laws in this land does not make pacificism the answer. After WWI many thought pacificsm was the answer, the lack of response by pacifist country lead to the death of sim million Jews.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

Interestingly, I know of a man who was denied a UPC ministerial license because he was a police officer and told the board he would kill to defend himself. He was denied for that reason.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

DA - what do you believe regarding this subject?

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

MLK was a moral compass? DA, come on, he was a adulterous, scoundrel, not someone i celebrate !

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

I know this is an old thread but I think I have something to contribute.

I was in the National Guard before I received Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Afterwards I did not renew my contract. I felt very much like many do that America should take care of it's own problems. Then 9-11 happened. I did not join up right away, but as the War kept going on and on I decided that it was my duty to serve again.

I joined the National Guard again and had one tour in Afghanistan. This changed everything I thought I ever knew. War is evil. Even when we say we do it for the right reason we still only make the problem worse. I will not be renewing my contract. This is the biggest mistake that I have ever made. I will show the scars on my heart for the rest of my life.

P.S. Just so that you know, everything the media and our government tells us about the war is a lie. They will not tell the truth.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

I feel you Disciple. I feel ya.

Re: When Pacifism Was a Tenet of Holiness.
 

Thank you.