My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Earlier today, I watched the videos of Lee Stoneking teaching Light Doctrine. I am very familiar with it because although my childhood pastor was a very strict water/Spirit preacher, he extended a measure of mercy and grace to Christian Apologists, pre-twentieth century, who were ignorant of Pentecostal theology.

He did so by teaching what he termed Progressive Light Doctrine. He believed that God restored the Apostolic Church bit by bit over the centuries culminating with the revelation of the New Issue in 1913. He taught that men like Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Edwards, Wycliffe and other Protestant reformers were saved because they "walked in the Light they had at the time."

Of course, he did not extend the same mercy and grace to his contemporaries in other Christian denominations, even though they believed exactly as did the Protestant reformers he so admired. Although his stance seemed inconsistent, he reasoned that the men of his day were without excuse because the fullness of truth had come, and all light had been revealed.

Of course, I am a product of my environment and had always believed as he taught until recently.

I changed my soteriology because of this passage.

Romans 3:19-28 NLT

[I]Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.


I now believe that there was no need for progressive revelation because faith in Christ has been present in every generation, without fail, since the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The believing church has, in fact, had elements of Apostolic practice restored. But penitent sinners have been restored to right relationship with God through faith in Jesus, for two millenniums, in an unbroken chain of succession.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Many modern water/Spirit proponents believe that Jesus words in Matthew 16:18 are proof that there was no need for Progressive Light. They say that the church never needed restoration because the doctrine the UPCI teaches has existed in an unbroken chain, throughout history, from Pentecost to present.

These men are working to separate themselves from the very pioneers responsible for the doctrine they now believe and teach. To do so, they must prove their doctrine of an unbroken chain is true, so they grasp at every historical straw they can find. It's standard operating procedure for them to find some obscure sect that practiced one of the two measurable steps in their soteriology - baptism and/or speaking in tongues.

Although they have been minutely successful in identifying sects who practice one of these steps, they have been completely unable to find anyone who believed and preached their exact doctrine, with identical emphasis, in any portion of history, pre-1913.

Additionally, many of the men who formed their current doctrine did not emphasize it with the present vigor. They preached all three steps, yet believed in justification by faith. Baptism and Spirit infilling were subsequent to salvation, and proceeded from salvation.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Wow. Perhaps your soteriology has changed beyond only the "light" doctrine? Or am I reading too much into your final statement?


Fwiw I believe my own pastors would agree with the way you were taught, and possibly extend it to today as well- though not from the pulpit.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

All of this leads me to believe that error begets error.

Instead of reading from the Word, these men read into the Word.

Over time, their doctrine becomes more strange, exclusive, and damning.

I recently read a blog in which a highly respected UPC minister placed Howard Goss in Hell. In various other blogs he has distanced himself from Topeka, Azusa and the early twentieth century Pentecostals.

It seems the "old paths" are being rejected for a new Apostolic Identity. One which disrespects our Wesleyan roots.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

:thumbsup

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
(Ephesians 2:8-9)

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Teary eyed.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Yes, it has.

I want to add one last thought I gleaned from Romans 3.

"This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

Faith in Jesus Christ pre-dates his birth.

Those who "sinned in times past" are those Old Testament saints who believed in Christ without a revelation of His name. They had faith in Him before He was born.

This extraordinary forward-looking faith justified them in the same way our backward-looking faith does.

Paul's words reveal what we've known, but rarely speak: Jesus is the fulcrum upon which all of history rests. He is truly the same, yesterday, today and forever.

Nothing has ever justified sinful man but faith in Jesus.

What can wash away my sins?

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

What can make me whole again?

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Oh precious is the flow, that makes me white as snow
no other fount I know

Nothing but the blood of Jesus

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Praise God!

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

:thumbsup

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

bump

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

This person sounds like a greasy grace, easy believism, weak on the message, one-stepper Bapticostal like me.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

This person sounds like a greasy grace, easy believism, weak on the message, one-stepper Bapticostal like me.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

I was always taught the light doctrine..........but it wasn't called that.

Modern day UPCers have tightened up the requirements quite a bit since the 50's of my childhood. By their rules no one is saved....not even "them"!

It borders on the scams prevelant in todays' get rich quick society.......salvation's a gift, BUT you have to pay for it.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Romans is an incredible and life-changing book.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

So living lukewarm according to what God had given the israelites was acceptable? As long as they believed a messiah would come? Who gave the law on Mt. Sinai?

Also do you even know the argument concerning the phrase.... Pistis Christou and it what it is saying? IN BOLD

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Yes, because it certainly trumps the Book of Acts. :rolleyes2

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

I love how people just take the text especially those like in Romans 3 and accept whatever translation like the NLT. Instead of knowing the issues in interpretation they just go say ok. All translations have some levels of theological bias. Not everything is debatable but some of it is and is very significant.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

I don't think any NT book trumps any other NT book.
Each was written for a specific purpose at that time and can have applications for us today.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

yeppers, that's why we don't want another translation/interpretation/version from an OP group which would display/promote their bias.

KJV was authorized by a pervert to promote the Anglican Church and combat previous translations like the Geneva Bible.
So if it was good enough for King James it should be good enough for us today.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

I agree, Sam. No NT book trumps another and were certainly not written to contradict each other either. :thumbsup

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

I am not KJV-ONLY Also anyone can give a translation but just like any it should be critically reviewed on a scholarly level Oneness or not. My point is the mindset of the individual when just accepting anything a translation says just because you had some scholars do it. Scholars argue against each other all the time.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

So are you still for or against the Light doctrine, I'm confused.

LS teaching on the light doctrine extends to all, not just pre-Pentecost in my opinion.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

I agree and this is true.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

.

I attended a class that LS was teaching on this subject just 2 years ago. He put every soul where it should be in the hands of God to Judge according to their personal life Journey..

I was amazed..

.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Thinking of this today and realizing how insidious false doctrine is. It poisons generations of believers and is like a tumor with many tentacles that wraps itself around our brains. It's so difficult to expunge.

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

"Like" :thumbsup

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

Care to expound upon the context of this thought?

Re: My Unrefined Treatment of Light Doctrine
 

:thumbsup