The Role of a Pastor
 

After reading bits and pieces of a number of different threads, plus hearing different pastors making this statement "they must give an account for your soul".

What do you see the role of a pastor is?

How much are they accountable for as to what YOU do?

If they teach you scripture and you don't obey I would think YOU are responsible and have to answer for your own doings.

Am I missing something here?

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Pastors are going to be held accountable for their teaching and preaching, their example, and their leadership.

Those who live a life of sin are going to answer for themselves, as all of us are.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

That is a very good summation.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I think so too.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

There appear to be several threads on AFF addressing the topic of Pastoral Authority.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

That is probably the single all time hottest and most disagreed upon topic on AFF.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

100% agree! :thumbsup

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

A pastors role is to equip the people of God to be the people of God.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I wholeheartedly agree.

The leadership part is something that I think not enough people realize.

Some people would rather do away with that pesky quote from St. Paul, "... follow me as I follow Christ."

Followership is a very important trait found in leaders, but I think too many people (Pastors and church goers alike) just don't like the idea of being lead and having to follow.


This is why it is so important to be a member of the right fellowship of believers-- so that the Christian can practice the art of followership, thus perfecting the art of personal leadership.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Don't remember the source:

"People are only lead in the direction they want to go."

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You've heard the saying, "Do as I say, not as I do." Well that certainly should not apply to a pastor. Paul said to follow me as I follow Christ. In other words do as I do. I believe a pastors primary way to lead is by example.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

That's the way I see it. Pastors will give account.... for their teaching, their leadership, etc.

The idea that your pastor will be standing beside you on Judgment Day so that he can tell God how you did..... I can't see that supported anywhere in scripture.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Well I am glad this came from someone I respect, but that is exactly the way I see it. :thumbsup

Thanks for responding.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

You nailed it, Coonskinner. Good answer.

On the other hand, I've heard many a pastor say (some in "not so many words") that they really believe that on judgement day, they will have to stand before God and give account for every soul of every person who ever sat under their ministry. As if God would punish them if Joe Schmoe didn't make it into the Kingdom.

Even those who didn't actually come right out and say that often made you feel like that was what they were inferring. Did any of the rest of you ever get that impression? Or was that just me?

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I have actually not heard that so much as growing up being serenaded with stories of those who didn't obey the man of god and met some sort of untimely demise as a result. They sounded more like the Grand Moff Tarkin, "Fear will keep the local congregation in line. Fear of this anointed position."

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I didn't get the impression the pastor wouldn't make it in, I got the impression that I wouldn't if they told God I shouldn't.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Well, obviously God has the final say on who enters into that foursquare city.

However, the Scripture indicates a connection between the accounting given by those who "have the rule over you" (Paul's words, not mine), and our own judgment.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

I am not exactly sure how this is going to play out, and I don't figure anybody else does either.

But it is very apparent from the Scripture that God does care about how we relate and respond to those set in spiritual authority in our lives, and that our eternal fate is impacted by that.

How exactly this all applies and what the parameters are, we can debate till the cows come home, but there is something there. That is unmistakable.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Tough job.

;)

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I think Elder Coonskinner did a great job explaining this.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

That was what I thought for a long time too. I had the impression, though I'm not sure it was blatantly taught, that Mt 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell," was referring to pastors, and if my pastor thought badly of me, Jesus automatically would, too.

My personal thought is that it's not beneficial to us right now if those who "watch for our souls" are doing so with grief. Deliberately making my leaders miserable has no benefit for me, whereas cooperation and respect often bring great benefit.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Wow.

Never heard of that one.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

The reasoning was that if we needed to be in a good church to go to heaven, to forsake not the assembling of ourselves, and if we needed to be in submission to a good pastor, and the pastor threw us out, then he was essentially condemning us to hell. Especially if other churches followed the manual and wouldn't accept those who tried to transfer without a letter of recommendation. Therefore, if the pastor wasn't happy with us, he could condemn us.

I now love Rom 8:31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Abusive carnal witchcraft pastors sure make it hard for the true blue pastors.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

The Scripture never contradicts itself.

Line upon line, precept upon precept.

We have to take it all. The Bible isn't a buffet where we select what we like and pass on the rest.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I've known both as well as some who were between the two (which are almost worse than the 'abusive carnal witchcraft' types).

You just need to remember to question and not assume ever utterance out of their mouths is God Himself talking to you. And.... any pastoral authority, assumed or not, stops at the home. Meaning, he does not have any say in what goes on behind the closed doors of your house -or where you choose to have said house. (I'm not saying you have the right to beat your wife and kids and he can't do anything about it. If I knew someone was doing that I would call the cops and would hope he would too.... I'm referring to a normal family living a life they believe is best for them.)

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Oh I love how you worded this! Could not have been said any better.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I think because there have been pastors that have abused their authority, when does God speak through a man it is almost disregarded because of past experiences.

In our 10yrs of pastoring it seems it takes a long time for people to trust you. They no longer see a pastor as a gift to body, but more or less an entity that needs to be challenged. Well when you know what you are teaching is in the word of God you have nothing to fear.

But it never seems to fare very well for those that constantly have to challenge every little thing. Just from what I have seen.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

A pastor is your Moses! Your intermediary between you and God. He answers for your soul. He is to create rules, dictate how you should live your life, even drawing minute rules inside of the broad scriptural principles we have inherited. The Pastor will get a Word for you if you need one. The Pastor will be obedient for you -- you only need to be obedient to him. You should never question your pastor. Never hold him accountable. You should do what you are told. No questions asked (unless, of course, he's telling you to hurt someone, or to do something extremely unethical). The Pastor has the mantle, the authority and power of God, you should respect that, be fearful of that, to the point that any criticism of something your pastor says you should know you could be judged on the spot. The pastor is the head honcho of the priesthood, the business officers (CEO) and the only one who comes up with ideas.

That's the role of the pastor! :)





TIC

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

:smack

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I have been singularly blessed in that the precious saints I have served as pastor have treated me with kindness and respect.

I have very, very few horror stories to tell.

It may not be politically correct to say this, but I have been treated better by saints than I have other ministers, for the most part.

Well, actually I have been treated well by the ministry also, with a few very notable exceptions.

My experiences with saints has been overwhelmingly positive.

Even those who chose not to live what I preached and walked away for the most part have remained friendly with me and seem to appreciate me and my wife.

God has been good to me and so have His people.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Whoops! If we believe he's telling us to hurt someone or do something unethical, we're holding him accountable and questioning him. Be careful--it's a slippery slope!! :winkgrin

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

You are a blessed man indeed!:thumbsup

I rejoice with you, I love to hear that a man of God is appreciated.

I hope I dont sound like I am complaining. It has not been horrible.

But we have had those who really do not understand the role of a pastor.

It's getting better, it has just taken some time.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

And Coonskinner, on the flip side of this, I would also say that I must have been very blessed because I never had a pastor - ok, I take that back, I did have one - but other than him, every pastor I ever sat under was kind, caring and filled with the love of God. I may not have agreed with every detail. But I would never in my wildest dreams have considered them to be abusive. In fact, even tho I no longer attend an Apostolic church, I am still in contact with almost all of my former pastors. One has passed on to to Glory. But the others are still good friends.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

What a great post Margie! :thumbsup

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Sometimes, the Laity criticizing or critiquing the Pastorate is like the fans laying down the law from the bleachers. People have opinions, but no experience.

Unless you've been a Pastor, you will never understand the toil, pain, and sacrifice involved in this ministry.

I've been a Pastor for 15 years, and the stress from all levels of this experience is hard to describe. My wife and I built our Church from nothing, starting the work in our home. Today, we have a building that is completely paid for with 3 acres of land and a nice congregation; but the price of all this is a bottle of tears, sleepless nights, financial emptiness, and has even put me in the hospital.

From emotional to physical, we have been drained to sheer exhaustion, and this experience has changed my life. So, if you haven't walked a mile in a man's shoes, be careful what you say.

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

NFS, in fairness, I think most people LOVE and appreciate their pastor. This post is titled "Role of a Pastor," which usually connects to the idea of the biblical role of a pastor.

I really feel the call to eldership is a sobering one with practical realities. It is not a call to be a celebrity, but a servant. I also personally believe much of the burden a pastoring elder shoulders is because of the emphasis on the "one man show" -- that is, one pastor vs. many... plural leadership. In fact the Laity comparison to fans is a worthy analogy, because that's just about what it is in many places. The Church is not functioning the way God intended for it too. And suffering the consequences are good men and women like yourself. That does not mean there will never be suffering, or that serving others will be a walk in the park. Far from it. The reality is that it's a very high calling, not for the parade of ambition or popularity, but because of the intensity of that call. It's reckless abandon that somehow we must gain the perspective of "counting it all joy."

I take my hat off to you, even without knowing you, because you represent the names and faces of many precious people that have been part of my own life. Now as I serve in the same capacity, I think often of them. That we would all make it a joy for those who serve! May you be encouraged today, NFS! And yes, criticism is far easier than action!

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Please take care of yourself pastor! I understand what you are saying and it is a whole different ball game pastoring. It's been a real education. God bless you for all that you are doing in the Kingdom!

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

I am responding to the bolded only. Is the pastor really your Moses!
or Aaron! Moses was as God's Voice. Aaron was Moses' mouthpiece.

Jesus was God's Mouthpiece in the NT. He chose the disciples. They
did not chose themselves. They followed Jesus willingly. The apostles
doctrine/teaching should be the same as Jesus teaching. Pastors should
be teaching the apostles doctrine/teaching which agrees with Jesus'
teaching as given Him by His Father (The Holy Ghost). The Apostle Paul
said to follow him as he followed Christ. With the Holy Ghost resident in
each pastor that is following the Apostles Doctrine/Teaching, that should
bring about the desired results. Should it not!

Someone has to hear the Word to have faith. Gotta start somewhere.

The Word is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword,
even to the dividing of soul and spirit.
Paul said, "Preach the Word"!

Falla39

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

CS,
I'm not sure I'm following you, but are you implying that this verse is offering a foreshadowing of Judgment Day?

Re: The Role of a Pastor
 

Thanks, Elizabeth. I humbly admit, I sat on the pew for almost 20 years and became critical at times towards my pastor. Little did I know I would walk in his shoes one day, realizing what a fool I was for saying the things that I did.

People forget, the Pastor is human, and there is a great deal of pressure from the Church to falsely canonize the Ministry. This deeply hinders men and women from being “Real”, leading to depression, guilt, and shame. This can lead to bitter failure and even suicide.

After the doctor basically told me, change or die, I realized I needed to adjust my drive in trying to be "Perfect". I tell the Church on a regular basis, “Stop putting me on a Pedestal! I’m no different than you are! I live, breath, and suffer in my flesh like all human beings.”