Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

I've expressed some dismay at the heavy criticism here when all I've done is promote the basic Acts2:38 New Birth message. It's basics of belief in repentance, baptism in water in Jesus' name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking with other tongues.

So could I get an idea of what's here at AFF and just see what people believe by asking these questions?

1: Do you believe that water baptism must be done in the name of Jesus and that any other baptism is not a valid baptism?

2: Do you believe that the infilling of the Holy Ghost is evidenced only by speaking with other tongues?

3: Do you believe these things are absolutely necessary in order to be saved and ready for heaven?

4: Do you hold as a core value the basics of traditional pentecostal holiness which is: Men: full length pants, shirts with sleeves, short hair, Women: uncut hair, no makeup, no pants, shirts with sleeves?

5: Do you believe a trinitarian will go to heaven?

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

Dude at least one of AFFs heros doesnt even believe repentance is necessary. why would they believe you need to be baptized?

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

Who?

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

No. And while I could ask you to specify what you mean, I already know. So my answer is that baptism is not an act, where the correct words are spoken over us for salvation. The baptizee should have either before the baptism or during, called upon the name of the LORD.

No.

No.

No
:blink Well... duh!

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

OPII, I think you're still sucking on a bottle. :bigbaby

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

yes

yes

yes

mostly--- depends on whether or not the sleeves have to be long :D

depends on what they have done with items 1 and 2


there ya go...don't talk much about it here. what would be the point?

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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

Glad to see your answers. I didn't say "Long sleeves" because I understand that many don't embrace that standard. I do and it's important to me, but I thought I would just keep it at the basics here.

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Thank you for not taking me seriously and using the occasion to throw yet another childish insult my way. If you don't like this or have a negative opinion about it, why not just skip it rather than feeling the need to belittle me?

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Seriously? What AFF Hero doesn't believe in repentance?

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I guess... if you're starving! :heeheehee

jk

Glad that works out for you.

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Huh, curious here, but why do you have short hair for men and not long hair for women (you have it as uncut hair)?

I'm guessing you know that long hair does not equal uncut hair.

Oh and what's with all the basics of traditional pentecostal holiness? Do you even have scripture for what you teach?

Are you sure you are apostolic? How can an apostolic be making up stuff like sleeve length, changing long hair to uncut hair, full length pants, to preach to people. Do you have scripture for your sleeve length gospel?

Real apostolics do not change scripture from "long hair" to "uncut hair"
Real apostolics do not teach sleeve length 'cause there ain't no scripture for that.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

Eh.
I deleted the post because I didn't want to try and explain it. I know where the majority on this forum stand, and it isn't anywhere near what would be considered traditional apostolic pentcostal doctrines and beliefs.

And which is why I tend not to discuss them here.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

Why would you delete it? Dude... put it out there. Be proud. Represent. There are others wanting you to... hoping you will.

As far as being "traditional," I think the group you refer to don't get a pass in that department -- but I know what you mean. I think there are more Traditionalists than you think. They are rooting you on right now.

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I believe in the infilling of the HG with the evidence of speaking in other tongues and baptism in Jesus' name.As far as traditional "pentecostal standards" no...not heaven or hell issue.If ankles and elbows turn someone on they need professional help.As far as baptism and speaking in tongues being needed for salvation..I'm not God I can certainly give scripture and verse for baptism being done in the name of Jesus and speaking in tongues accompanying being filled with the HG but I refuse to be judge jury and executioner for that issue.We need to stop acting like "not going to hell" is the only reason we do or dont do things...there are far more benefits to having the HG and being baptised besides not going to hell.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

I believe that all baptisms that are not performed in the authority of Jesus Christ are invalid.
No. A dead tree can have roots in the ground. A life that does not bear the fruit of the Spirit condemns himself when he speaks in tongues.


I do not understand the question.
No, I do not believe in fairy tales.
If said trinitarian is living a life in pursuit of truth, yes. If living a life of complacency and carnality like so many apostolics, not likely. Hypothetics...

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Come on, OPII, lighten up. You're trying to cram everybody into "Your Box", and the Christian Faith doesn't work like that. It never has, and never will. None of us have IT. We try, we debate, we fall, we fail, and the cycle continues, and you just have to laugh at what we're all doing down here.

I used to think like you do, but life has unveiled a host of experiences that reveal; Apostolics who think like you (and me in the past), you are not the "ONLY ONES!" Even thinking this is truly crazy. We are just humans, pathetic little humans who have a Book that no one can really agree on. But that’s OK. The Bible is an amazing Book, and what amazes me, even amidst all of the confusion and minimal understanding, lives are still transformed by loving Jesus Christ!!

I suggest you do a little "Stand Back". Stop looking at life through your little lens of Religion. What I mean is, climb a mountain and look at the city. The sight, sounds, and feelings are all different when we get that bird’s eye view. Look down upon Mankind’s effort to figure God out, and if you are honest, you will SEE that this has NEVER been easy, and it's really quite comical.

One thing that opened my eyes a few years ago was this; Jesus called those who thought they had God figured out, BLIND! Think about it!!

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

I said "uncut" to make it as clear as I could without going into a long theological explanation. Seemed clear to me and the core value among oneness apostolics has long been uncut.

Yes, I'm sure I'm an apostolic. A real one. I said that long sleeves are important to me. We are using the scriptural principles of modesty and principles may be applied many ways.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

Let OP define it how he wants. We all know what he means. He wants to see who on AFF believe it like him. I think there are many. Let them post so he can know who they are.

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I agree, Bro. Atkinson. It does seem a bit futile but I'm new and ambitious enough that I'll try! But if you're one that holds the traditional apostolic pentecostal doctrines and beliefs, I'd love to see you posting!

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

Thank you, Socialite. While you and I have had our disagreements, I appreciate you supporting my right to voice my heart. So far, only one has posted that said, "Yes" to the questions. And while you voted mostly "No", you didn't become disrepsectful by calling it fairy tales or saying I'm not a real apostolic or calling me a baby. I wish people could just express their thoughts without being so mean.

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I for one love reading posts from traditional OR non traditional believers....I'm not threatened by anyone that has views different from mine.

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1. When baptism is done, it may be with the name spoken or in the authority thereof. Formula is not an issue, the issue is whether you are born again by the graceful mercy of God.

2. In Acts, when a soul was born again, they heard both tongues and prophecy. I believe fruit is evident of what kind of tree you are, not gifts.

3. Jesus told us to repent of our sins and believe on Him. To repent is not just to repent one time, but to walk in repentance. Yes, without this, Heaven is judgment, not eternal hope.

4. Holiness is modesty. I hold to the Bible, not values which are used in the stead of the true grace of God.

5. I believe all who repent of their sins, believe on Christ alone for salvation, in other words, all the elect will enter the Kingdom, yes.

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I agree with the initial post's statements, except the one about women with uncut hair and no pants, and I cannot say who is not going to heaven since I fear God too much to be that sort of judge. My conviction for that is based upon the Book of Acts accounts of people ministering to others where no one was told they would go to hell if they disagreed. Of course people are going to hell, but I do not believe we can say who except for out and out sinners. Priscilla and Aquila did not tell Apollos he was going to hell, and neither did Paul tell the Ephesians they were going to hell. But I preach oneness and Acts 2:38 salvation and leave the hell part to God.

I also agree we should disagree without being mean. :thumbsup

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"Whines" But But being mean is so fun!"pouts" hehe jk

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The old farmer had a nice garden. His neighbor across the fence, not so much. The old farmer looked across the fence and shook his head. "He needs to do something about those weeds," he though to himself. Everyday he criticized his neighbors weed patch. He became obsessed, telling himself his neighbor was lazy and didn't know how to grow a garden. In fact, he looked over the fence so much that he forgot about his own garden. It wasn't long til he had his own weedpatch.

Another neighbor watched all of this with amusement. He said, "Nope, not me. I'm not gonna spend all my time criticizing my neighbors garden and let mine grow into a weedpatch. No, sir, I'm gonna keep mine clean. So, he hoed, tilled and pulled every sign of weed. But in so doing, he'd dig up a bean plant here and cut down a tomato vine there. His tiller dug up his potatoes. He had a super clean garden, but, come harvest time, he didn't have much fruit.

The "heavy criticism" spoken of goes both ways. I think we'd all do well to tend to our own little gardens.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

I believe the same thing I believe when I first joined....long before it was AFF...

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I've seen a lot post here on AFF and ask why all the "Ultra-cons" have left. Is it any wonder? I simply come on here and ask, "Who believes these traditional basics?" and I get made fun of, called a baby, my beliefs called fairy tales, and lectured as if I have no idea what the bible says.

Do some of you really wonder why they left? Recently, I posted on a thread about American Idol that it was worldly entertainment and was hammered!!! I really can't say that a production that celebrates homosexuality, the songs of Michael Jackson and the Beatles, and godlessness of all kinds, is worldly entertainment?

The "Ultra-cons", which isn't a fair label, didn't just decide to leave, they've been run off.

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Bro. OldPaths... First I want you to know that, under no circumstances, would I criticize you for you convictions. I respect anyone who holds to their convictions, whether I agree with those convictions or not. I do respect our Pentecostal traditions, but, the key word here is "traditions". What some call "standards" are, in fact, traditions, handed down to us by our Pentecostal and Holiness forefathers. In fact, in studying Pentecostal history, I began to notice a trend. The 20th century Pentecostal movement was born primarily within the holiness movement of the late 19th century. The holiness preachers that came into Pentecost placed great emphasis on holiness teachings (ie, standards). The Pentecostal Holiness and Fire Baptized Churches are good examples. Those that came into Pentecost from more mainline churches (e.g. Baptist) placed less emphasis on standards, and more on the Gifts and Fruit of the Spirit. This isn't a criticism, just an observation.

And, while I'm at it, and with respect, you are mistaken about the UC's being run off. They chose to leave (I think it was a planned mass exodus). They were asked to stay, but they refused to stay and some of them predicted AFf woukld fold without their presence. Well, it hasn't folded. I don't like the label UC either. I detest the ungodly labels we feel we have to place on ourselves to differentiate ourselves from those with whom we disagree. We disagree, some of us can't fellowship with one another because of our conflicting views. But, as a wise man once said, "Let there be no strife...between me and thee... for we be brethren." I think some of the "Cons" go to far to the right... some Libs go to far the other way. Us mods, well, we just stand in the middle and, reaching out to both sides, we say, "Can't we all just get along?"

And, your opinion of American Idol is just that... an opinion that you have a right to hold and say. But, in so doing, you should expect others to voice an opposing veiw as that is the right as well.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

I appreciate your thoughts, OneAccord. I'm not trying here to have a bible-discussion, that's for another time, and I'm sure some will pounce on that statement. I'm just trying to see the lay of the land.

While no one went to the "Cons" and ran them off directly, such a hostile environment has been fostered that it became impossible for them to be here. In that sense, they were run off, I believe. They certainly feel that way, I've talked to them.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

Well, AFF is not an entity in and of itself. It is made up of people- people of different veiws. Its a melting pot of sorts. Those that left joined (or formed) groups of like minded people, and, I just wonder how content they are. I mean, from what I have read, those forums are open only to people that agree. How fun is that? A forum full of "Yes men" that have to carefully toe the doctrinal line? Post a belief or veiw that doen't measure up to the "standard" and out you go. I don't want to be a part of a forum or church for that matter that tells me what I must believe. I have the Bible to tell me that. That is my Standard. I appreciate a pastor or evnagelist who sheds more Gospel Light on my pathway, but that Light has to be Good's Word, not some "standard" that was carefully crafted in some board meeting somewhere. Or an ambigious interpretation of some Scripture taken out of context.

A variation of an old saying goes something like this: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

AFF is what we make it. If there is evil on AFF (and by "evil" I'm not referring veiws different from mine).... if theres evil here, its because good folks haven't spoken up enough. If theres division here, its because I haven't screamed UNITY! enough. And believe me, I've yelled it a lot. To no avail? Maybe... but that doesn't stop me from screaming even louder.

So, stand your ground. But be prepared to defend your veiws.

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Fairy tales was offensive? Should I have sub'd it with "untruths?"

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Sorry if I came across mean. I did not intend to. It's just that I shriek whenever I see "long hair" changed to "uncut hair." I definitely respect your convictions. Again, sorry...

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Still waiting for who that "hero" is that does not believe in repentance and for the proof

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( I believe a trinnitarian can go to heaven, can't say who will or won't)

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i believe just like you do but as far as number 5, only if they obey acts 2;38 there is no other way god bless

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Not in the way you mean, but yes. Even a baptism in the titles can be done in the authority and name of Jesus.

No.

The two above? No

No

Yes, and more than one.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

You have an opinion about the "Cons", however the truth is they were as difficult and "mean" as those you accuse. I have debated with them for years and tried to always be kind and respectful, and did make "friendly" with most of them. Because I was not offended by their strong opinions, even when they were mean. I have been where they are and therefore I understand the passion, but when I was honest with myself and studied the scriptures and history, I found that we had never been expose to the "whole" story.

So, if you want to ask questions, just accept folks answers as their opinion and don't get "sensitive", because that just doesn't fly here. We have been where you are, but you likely have not walked in our shoes, nor been were we are.

And BTW, my answers would all be "NO", except for the last one and it would be "YES". Read 1 Tim. 4:10, and you will find a very strong statement of why my answers are as stated.

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I hope every trinitarian I know will go to heaven.

Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
 

I pretty much agree with JA.