Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Many respond to the question of why God created us by saying something like it being for His pleasure, and for Him to love us, etc. And when asked about our utmost goal of all goals, it is to die and go to Heaven. I DISAGREE! lol

The very first chapter of the Bible (significant) says God made man to have dominion on the earth and to subdue it. THAT IS IT!

To restore us to where we fell from, God would not have us die and go to Heaven. We fell from having dominion over the earth.

Yes, if we die we will go to Heaven. However, NOT FOREVER, though. Shocked? Think about it. THERE IS A RESURRECTION COMING in which we will once again abide in our EARTH SUITS called BODIES which are not made for Heaven or the unseen realm. Only, we will never die physically again.

God made us to have dominion on earth. Satan fell from heaven, not man. So dying and going to heaven is not our utmost goal.

Thoughts?

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

:popcorn2

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Agreed.

I am shocked.

Could you share some of where you get this thought from. I am intrigued.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

You know, I have had this same thought as well before. I'm not sure why. The bible does say that God is creating new heavens and a new earth. Why would he create a new earth that was going to be uninhabited?

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Mike,
What body do I get if with time, my earthly body turns to dust?

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Where is one word about leaving earth forever one day? Not there. :)


Matthew 6:9-10 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.


While we are praying to get earth out of here into heaven, God is telling us to pray for Heaven to come to earth! How? His Kingdom is extended into the physical realm from the heavenly realm through mankind.

The principle all through the NT is that we must see that which is in heaven projected into the earth. We find this concept in our need to be led of the Spirit and not our flesh.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

His Spirit is meant to empower us.

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Why? To see the will of God DONE IN EARTH in the physical realm.

Stop and think about it. Where does the bible explicitly state we are meant to go to heaven and leave this earth forever? It talks about entering Life and it talks about inheriting the Kingdom. But where? In Heaven? No! It's a tradition that is not there.

Yes we die today and go to heaven, but only temporarily.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

An immortal body that will never turn to dust.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Well said, Mike, and I agree!!

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

"Behold, I make ALL things NEW." He redeems the earth to become NEW.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Read this passage carefully.

Psalms 115:14-16 The LORD shall increase you more and more, you and your children. (15) Ye are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth. (16) The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Heaven is GOD'S DOMAIN, not man's. He gave EARTH to man. Why would He create man to live an infinitesimally small duration of his existence in earth, with the vast majority of eternity future in heaven, if God gave earth to man? It's like saying man should live on earth and fulfill God's purpose for him for 70 mere years, and then get outta here and spend the rest of eternity in Heaven playing harps on clouds. i think Genesis 1 would have stated something more about what we will do in Heaven if dying and going to Heaven was our purpose and utmost desire, and we were to spend the least amount of our existence in earth. But here we are singing about flying away, when we all get to heaven, and what a day that will be, when God is hollering at us to pray for His will in heaven to be done in earth and for the Kingdom to COME here!

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

It's interesting. But reading your book left some interesting options open too.

So... we go to heaven until the day mans dominion on the earth is restored is what you are saying?

Do you have any thoughts on references in scripture that would give an expected timeline? Could be near? Must be near? Probably isn't for centuries?

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Well, sorta. I believe we are, first of all, to do much more right now than waiting to go to Heaven to experience the resurrection and reconvene dominion. I believe much of dominion is something we can enjoy now. Jesus said REPENT THE KINGDOM HAS ARRIVED.

REPENT means more than asking forgiveness. It means CHANGE YOUR ENTIRE THINKING AROUND. Hooboy! When you think THIS way, we REALLY DO need t=o change our thinking all around!

Renew your mind and be transformed. There is so much more for us in the here and now than the teaching of seeking a departure to heaven has made us aware of. And so we dominate now and spiritually subdue things in life, and then when we die and go to glory, we await the resurrection only to return to this earth and dominate in an exponentially greater measure forevermore.

Scripture deals far more with getting hold of dominion right now, and kinda leaves eternity future out of the discussion. So the bible does not say much, in my opinion, about the time of the immortal changeover.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Exactly, Heaven isn't our home, just a temporary dwelling place, God made us to dwell on a New Earth! Christianity is the most material faith/religion.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

AMEN!

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And why are we dying to begin with when he Jesus removed the curse of the law and took out of the way the handwriting of ordinances that was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross. Having spoiled principalities and powers he made a show of them openly triumphing over them in it. ( Heb. 2:14,15.
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity even the law of commandments contained in ordinances for to make in himself to twain one new man so making peace.(Eph. 2:15)
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ.( Gal.3:13,14)
Read Romans Chapter 8 1-17. It's all there for the spirit minded person who can walk in the power of his spirit and in the principle of the faith of the Son of God.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

The curse of the Law was not the curse from the Garden for man to return to dust. Thank God He is restoring us fully to pre-fall existence, part of which includes an immortal body as Adam originally had!

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

So then, Jesus did not free us from the all curse of God upon all mankind. And did not all the commandments of God come with a penalty? So maybe your saying the believers are still under the curse of death. Not debating just finding out things.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Agree!

I've thought this for many years now........

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

I believe the work of the cross allowed for the immortalization of our bodies in the future, and that effecting it is not necessary for the time being. The cross paid for it, but it will kick into effect in our future. I think God makes use of our mortal bodies that still house sin for the purpose of maturing us,. etc. in spirit. It makes us battle and put down this flesh and deny it. So, in effect, the cross paid for it all, including the penalty of physical death, but the redemption of the body is not for this time yet due to His purposes in taking advantage of it for reasons beyond the scope of just dealing with death.


Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

FULL redemption includes even the body from death, but though it is not effected yet, it was still paid for by the cross.

So, yes, the curse of Adam was dealt with on the cross as well as the curse of the Law. So I should not have phrased it the way I did. I should have said the curse in the Garden was paid for by the cross, but the full experience of it is held back in time so far as our bodily redemption goes.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

This freaks some people out.....

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Ok. I understand what you are saying.I agree the time has not come. But I believe in an appointed time when it will. Not as though I have attained unto it, nor have I known any other that has. But I know Jesus mentioned it to Peter in regard to the disciple John. And if death is the enemy of God then it is the enemy of the Body of Christ. And he is seated expecting until, his enemies become his foot stool./ we're ok.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Yes. I agree. lol. So many accept traditional thoughts and all the hymns' emphasis of flying away, and never stop to think the Bible did not put that kind of emphasis on it all.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

AMEN AND AMEN! :thumbsup

Those enemies were dealt with by the power of he cross, but we remain seated with Christ until they are all put down. Thinking they must be dealt with by further work is not remaining seated til they come down. Remaining seated means the work was done and we know it!

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

SOMEONE needs to disagree, or this is no longer AFF!!

Come on... someone talk about being seated in heavenly places... talk about how the new heaven & earth are one in the same in quality, talk about how he went and prepared dwelling places for us (Father's house)... something!!! Too much agreement on this thread! :foottap

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

:woohoo

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Oh, they are here, I assure you.

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Well you can review my tread on wearing neckties to church. I think we finally arrived now on that post were we should be riding horses and buggies to church instead of driving worldly cars, ha ha..

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I seldom wear a necktie and white shirt any more. Looks too Mormon. lol

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Relax Socialite.

We're just dwelling together in heavenly places. :)

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Mike,

I thought you did not believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ?

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

Mike is absolutely right folks. Believe it and receive it! :thumbsup

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Amen!

Raven, you are like a Daddy - - when you put your seal on something, it's right!

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"..in the mornin in the mornin... when I rise..."

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and we are now the new creation.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

OK if new jeruslem is not a literal city, which it's not, then would new heaven/earth not be literal as well.


Is that better? :happydance

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

I don't. I believe in the eternal reign of Christ on earth. :) And it already started 2000 years ago. It will just kick in exponentially greater after the coming of the Lord, but not for a mere 1000 years.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

NO YOU DIDN'T!!! LOL! I was in a service a few years ago. The evangelist was preaching and he said something like (for no apparent reason) "I don't care what the preterists say, the New Jerusalem is real, it has measurements and dimensions..." I almost laughed out loud.

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

I was thinking about this Thread at lunch today. My question is this; does this reign on Earth include those of the Old Testament?

Even if it doesn't, there might be a population issue (Unless only those from AFF are saved! :D).

Re: Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven
 

lol

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Yeah, dimensions sorta like this:


Ephesians 3:17-19 KJV That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, (18) May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; (19) And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.