Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036781)

I listen to a lot of you pretend-Apostolics talk about grace and love and forgiveness and acceptance and all kinds of touchy-gooey stuff that you think is love. But accepting someone as they are and never demanding repentance, never telling them the truth of their condition IS NOT LOVE!!!

So I just want to tell all of you that:


...have not obeyed Acts 2:38,

...that do not teach it as the ONLY way to salvation,

...who don't demand that trinitarians be re-baptized,

...you men that think it's ok to grow your hair long and wear shorts,

...you women who cut your hair, wear makeup, and wear pants,

...who have not embraced the Oneness of God,


I love all of you SO much that I must tell you, if any of that list described you, you will burn in a devil's hell for all eternity. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth and you will be one of them!! You won't care about your makeup and jewelry and shorts then!! Jesus will not trip through the aisles of a dark movie theatre to include you in the rapture!!!!

Now THAT is true love!!!

Originally Posted by Phoenix (Post 1036783)

So much love it almost brought a tear to my eye.

Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1036785)

Nor will He include anyone that judges and condemns his brother. That is NOT our job!!!!!! Perhaps we can pray for a clean heart and right spirit, before we condemn others to hell.

Originally Posted by NotforSale (Post 1036786)

Oh, brother, I thought you were gone for good! I was hoping, but no, you have to come back here and taunt everyone with your super, holy, arrogant attitude!

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036788)

Oh stop it, this judgement stuff is just ridiculous!!! Is it judgement to quote from the Word of God?? Was John The Revelator judgmental when he listed the people that would burn in a devil's hell in Revelation 21??

Truth is not judgment!

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036789)

I'm here to show you what real love is, my friend! You've made so much fun of me but I still care enough about you that I'll try to help you make it to heaven!

Originally Posted by NotforSale (Post 1036791)

I'm so touched!!!:tissue

Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1036790)

No, it is not judgment to quote scripture. And yes, I realize you believe you are right. But, sin is the only thing that will separate us from God. And yes, it is loving to warn people of the danger of sins, but not in a self righteous way.

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036795)

You think that's funny, don't you? Someday it won't be funny one bit! I looked up some of your posts, my friend, and I see that you don't believe in Noah and The Ark. Get right with God, brother!!!

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036793)

Look at post 375 in my thread on page 38 in the doctrinal survey and see what Bro. McKee said! We need more men of God like that to take a stand and proclaim the truth! Keep it up, Bro. Rob McKee!! And any of you that want to make fun of him, just remember, Touch Not God's Anointed!!

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1036797)

LOL! You have to be a poser. There is no other explanation for some of your posts. :toofunny No sane person would get in someone's face and think you could actually win them toward your view. :drama

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1036797)

LOL! You have to be a poser. There is no other explanation for some of your posts. :toofunny No sane person would get in someone's face and think you could actually win them toward your view. :drama

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036795)

You think that's funny, don't you? Someday it won't be funny one bit! I looked up some of your posts, my friend, and I see that you don't believe in Noah and The Ark. Get right with God, brother!!!

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036802)

You can think whatever you want to hink, that's your right. I'm not here to win friends and influence people, I'm not Dale Carnegie. I'm just here to proclaim truth. This forum has a long history of people who weren't afraid to tell like it is. But now the greasy-gracers have taken over and having their way and someone with some Holy Ghost boldness needs to tell the truth!

Originally Posted by NotforSale (Post 1036803)

Check the facts!! There are many reasons WHY the Ark wouldn't work.

Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1036808)

OP2, we can speak the truth with kindness, in fact many do on AFF.

Originally Posted by Phoenix (Post 1036804)

What is your working definition of greasy-gracer?

Edited to be nice.

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036781)

I listen to a lot of you pretend-Apostolics talk about grace and love and forgiveness and acceptance and all kinds of touchy-gooey stuff that you think is love. But accepting someone as they are and never demanding repentance, never telling them the truth of their condition IS NOT LOVE!!!

So I just want to tell all of you that:

...
Now THAT is true love!!!

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 1035178)

Is Opie Deuce going to respond to the many answers that he has received? What's the point in starting a thread and putting up a questionnaire if you just ignore all of the responses?

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 1033033)

I personally am not aware of any group that practices a Christian baptism that does not "baptize in Jesus' name." Listen to what's being said (or read from some dusty old liturgy). They all baptize in Jesus' name - at least every one I've ever encountered.



No. While the phrase "evidence" is never associated with the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the NT, we do read that the Christian life is at least expected to produce many sorts of "evidence" that the individual has been born of God. This is often referred to as the "Fruit of the Spirit" (and there are 9 listed in Galatians 5:22-23). The teachings of the Apostles is replete with many other examples. Nowhere do we find "speaking in tongues" identified as "evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit" as you have claimed.



I believe the corrections I have made to your misunderstandings of the Word are necessary to be considered a part of the Body of Christ. The only thing that I can find that would fit the phrase, "absolutely necessary in order to be saved and ready for heaven?" would be that someone MUST be saved by the Savior.

That's your only hope and assurance. Jesus saves. Without Him we are all lost. Adding to the teachings of Jesus Christ and his Apostles as you have done does put one on rather shaky ground, however (Revelation 22:18).



The "traditional pentecostal holiness" is NOT what you have claimed it to be. Many old time churches (like Emmanuel Pentecostal Church in Mesquite, TX) were in fact founded by female evangelists who not only cut their hair - but in the case of EPC's founder Bertha Clinton, had bobbed hair of the style fashionable in the 1920s.

In the case of the EPC church linked to above - Pastor Flowers had to take down the photo of Bertha Clinton after his church had hosted the funeral for Cleveland Becton, former Sec. Gen. of the UPC. Today, we just can't show those "bobbed hair women" from our history any longer. I'm sorry that I didn't do a screen capture of the EPC website at the time of Bro. Becton's funeral. Maybe someone else has a pic of Sister Bertha Clinton? Contact me if you do. Thanks!

Consider also, Sarah E. Thistlethwaite Parham - the wife and biographer of the founder of the Apostolic Faith Movement, Charles Fox Parham:

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...aiteparham.jpg

Consider also, Olive Haney, mother of a UPC General Superintendent. In this pic she is shown at the time her parents were missionaries to Japan - among the very first Apostolic Missionaries:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...1&d=1276215968



Define "trinitarian?"

The problem here OP Deuce, isn't that we all have somehow failed to maintain your "standards" for what you consider to be "Apostolic." The problem is that you are largely ignorant of Apostolic history and what it means to be "Apostolic."

Consider the following picture. That is Charles Fox Parham again - seated in the middle, surrounded by his students. We'll leave off commenting on all of the facial hair since you didn't bring it up. However, everyone in this picture was a Trinitarian. The teacher, his wife and all of the students. Even the guy holding the banner that reads "Apostolic" is a Trinitarian.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...ndstudents.jpg

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036810)

How much kinder can I get?? That's the whole point I'm trying to make! I couldn't possibly be more kind than to sound the trumpet of alarm that would spare many people from eternal damnation! Telling someone if they believe that Jesus is Lord, they're saved, is NOT kind!!! It's horrible!! If that is the truth, then Satan will be right there in heaven too because he believes!

This is the ultimate kind of love and kindness, to warn people of the error of there ways!

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 1036814)

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036811)

I think you know what a greasy-gracer is, these people that think grace just makes everything go away, that the cross took care of everything. But there was a resurrection and if we aren't resurrected with Him, then we're still dead!

Originally Posted by Phoenix (Post 1036818)

No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:3, paraphrased

You believe there is one God? That is good, even the demons believe and tremble! James 2:19, paraphrased

Would you mind explaining these verses in relation to your beliefs?

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036819)

This is all very nice, but I can't answer for those who chose to believe what they believed, I can only worry about what we know about apostolic truth, about what the bible says!

It sounds like you want to stir the trith into a muddy mess that doesn't make any sense. The Word of God still says, that we MUST be baptized in Jesus name, that we MUST repent, That we MUST receive the Holy Ghost and that happens when we speak in other tongues, that men should NOT have long hair, that a woman should NOT cut her hair, that we are to be MODEST in the way we present ourselves!! If you think Jezebel is a good example to follow, then have at it! I'm not interested in seeing my wife looking like a Jezebel!

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 1036823)

So you're calling Olive Gray Haney a "Jezebel?" A godly woman such as Sister Haney is a "Jezebel" in your eyes?

And, since when did telling the truth equate to "muddy the trith (SIC)?" You deny the truth of the Apostolic Faith movement yet you insist upon your own version as being the only true Apostolic faith.

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 1036823)

So you're calling Olive Gray Haney a "Jezebel?" A godly woman such as Sister Haney is a "Jezebel" in your eyes?

And, since when did telling the truth equate to "muddy the trith (SIC)?" You deny the truth of the Apostolic Faith movement yet you insist upon your own version as being the only true Apostolic faith.

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036810)

How much kinder can I get?? That's the whole point I'm trying to make! I couldn't possibly be more kind than to sound the trumpet of alarm that would spare many people from eternal damnation! Telling someone if they believe that Jesus is Lord, they're saved, is NOT kind!!! It's horrible!! If that is the truth, then Satan will be right there in heaven too because he believes!

This is the ultimate kind of love and kindness, to warn people of the error of there ways!

Originally Posted by Phoenix (Post 1036818)

No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:3, paraphrased

You believe there is one God? That is good, even the demons believe and tremble! James 2:19, paraphrased

Would you mind explaining these verses in relation to your beliefs?

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036822)

Id like to hear YOU explain it, my friend!

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 1036824)

It's a simple fact: NO ONE - NOBODY - Taught your doctrine before about 1937. Where was the church before 1937? Not even GT Haywood or AD Urshan - the ones who developed the Oneness message and the "Water & Spirit" doctrine - taught what you're preaching here.

You have no Savior in your doctrine! How can you even claim to be "saved?" You need a Savior! ... OH WAIT! That's the problem. You think that you can save yourself. Dude, you need to go back to the "First Works." You really do need a Savior - we all need a Savior!

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036825)

God has allowed us over time to understand His Word! I'll tell you what, go talk to someone and see how Sis. Haney conducted herself the last 40+ years or so of her life. Answer that!!

Originally Posted by Phoenix (Post 1036826)

I'm having trouble understanding what you believe. You say that Satan believes Jesus is Lord. Can you provide Scripture for that? I did provide the Scripture that says one can only say "Jesus is Lord" by the Spirit.

If I remember correctly, you said in another post that one must believe in the Oneness doctrine in order to be saved. The demons do believe in the oneness of God and yet they are not saved.

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036831)

Nice try at twisting my words, my friend. I didn't claim that believing in the oneness of God saves us. Sorry, that kind of twisting is what gets so many in trouble with reading the bible.

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 1036830)

She believed that she was saved as a child when she gave her life to Him. She believed that all the way up until the day she died. Have you ever heard her speak? Her husband? Her son? Ever read any of their writings?

So, answer THIS: Why did you call her a "Jezebel?" She never felt that she had acted like a "Jezebel." She looks MODEST in that picture.

Originally Posted by OldPathsII (Post 1036829)

Let's ask Nathaniel Urshan about the plan of salvation! What did HE preach?? Your attempt at making a point only proves MY point! Bro. Urshan understood where his father wassn't where he needed to be and took up The Truth! And Sis. Haney eventually understood that she shouldn't be wearing makeup and jewelry! These people came to the truth and it's what WE ALL need to do!

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 1036834)

I used to work for Nathaniel Urshan. I know exactly what he preached. However, I said "AD Urshan" - the man who was responsible for the development of the modern day Oneness Doctrine.

You see, I actually knew some of these folks and their family members. Sister Haney never "renounced" the wearing of a modest string of pearls though she did conform to some of the extreme things that the radicals like Ike Terry brought out west with them.

But, guys like Terry also brought hate, exclusivism, and just plain bad doctrine. Now... Where was YOUR doctrine before 1937? Did your doctrine save ANYONE before 1937?