The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

May we discuss the doctrine of separation in broad terms on this thread instead of focusing on the minutia we normally debate? :)

A couple questions.

1. What scriptures were used to develop the doctrine?
2. Is the doctrine present in both testaments.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

I believe the concept is certainly scriptural. Of course it is completely misunderstood, redefined, and misapplied in oneness pentecostalism. But again, I think it is quite obvious that seperation fromt he world is a scriptural principle.

I would also add, that seperation manifests itself in lifestyle, not in being afraid of the world, of which Jesus showed us perfectly, he was holy and separate from sinners, yet there were no limits that He wouldn't go beyond to reach the sinner and show them the love of God. HOWEVER, He never stooped to the level of sin or worldliness to "relate".

I think we can minister to sinners, reach out to sinners, and reach sinners, without involving ourselves in their lifestyles, their language, or worldy culture.

In broad terms, the Bible most certainly teaches separation.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

I would say that it mostly hinges on this passage (containing the key phrase):

II Corinthians 6:14 - 18:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."


Ezra 10:10-12

"And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel. Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives. Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do."

:dunno

Without making any specific applications, I would say that the idea that we should separate ourselves from sin is a biblical concept illustrated, if not specified, in both Testaments.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

Interesting.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

Interesting.

indeed

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

Be ye holy for I am holy is another scripture found in both testaments that would apply to this discussion as well. Lev 11:44, 1 Peter 1:15-16

We must be set apart for the Master's use like the holy consecrated vessels of the tabernacle were.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

I Peter 1:15 "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;"

Conversation - anastrophē - behavior: - conversation.

Separated by behavior.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

From Strong's -

...to yoke up differently, that is, (figuratively) to associate discordantly: - unequally yoke together with.

Sure, it was specifically addressing marriage. No argument there. :) That's why I said "the idea of." However, it's interesting that separation from the "strange wives" wasn't the only requirement; not only were the men required to put away their wives, but separation from the people of the land was required as well. Why?

Ezra 10:11 Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

I like this passage from the Good News Bible:


Exodus 33:14 The LORD said, "I will go with you, and I will give you victory."
Exodus 33:15 Moses replied, "If you do not go with us, don't make us leave this place.
Exodus 33:16 How will anyone know that you are pleased with your people and with me if you do not go with us? Your presence with us will distinguish us from any other people on earth."
Exodus 33:17 The LORD said to Moses, "I will do just as you have asked, because I know you very well and I am pleased with you."

This passage is talking about a natural separation that occurs (and should occur) when we belong to God. That lends credence to the concept that we don't have to strive to be separated for the sake of being separated; God's presence will "distinguish us."

IMO, when we obey God's laws and we are filled with His Spirit, there will be a natural separation that occurs--separation from sin, and separation from "worldliness", e.g., having the mindset of an unbeliever. There will be a marked distinction between those who have the mind of Christ and those who don't. There will also be an obvious distinction between those who walk after the Spirit and those who walk after the flesh. You don't have to manipulate or fabricate that distinction; it occurs naturally.

The specific "application" of standards of separation is where people have gone astray, because they are trying to fabricate a visible distinction that should occur naturally by being filled with the Spirit and walking after the Spirit.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

No.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

:toofunny

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

This scripture is troubling for me because all women are strange! Are we all supposed to seperate from our wives????:happydance:icecream

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

Interesting. It appears that separation in dress is involved by commandment.

Zephaniah 1:8 "And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel." (KJV)

CEV translates "strange apparel" as "foreign customs". Footnote: Zephaniah 1:8 follow foreign customs: Hebrew "wear foreign clothes."

Amplified Bible:

Zephaniah 1:8 And on the day of the Lord's sacrifice, I will punish the officials and the king's sons and all who are clothed in [lavish] foreign apparel [instead of the Jewish dress, with its reminders to obey God's commandments].(A)

(A) Numbers 15:38 "Speak to the Israelites and bid them make fringes or tassels on the corners in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and put upon the fringe of the borders or upon the tassel of each corner a cord of blue."

Numbers 15:39 "And it shall be to you a fringe or tassel that you may look upon and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, that you may not spy out and follow after [the desires of] your own heart and your own eyes, after which you used to follow and play the harlot [spiritually, if not physically],"

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

Work out your own salvation...... :heeheehee

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

I find it interesting that God asked the men to put away their wives--including those who had children by those same wives. I wonder if they were also expected to remain unmarried after that? Another thread, maybe? :coffee2

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

The Hebrews did seem to be a forgetful and fearful people. And thought they knew more than God. After all these other people didn't obey God, they had their own and were doing fine. Like the NT warns of following false doctrine.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

:thumbsup

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

That is all very well true. It is just that Charnock was asking what scriptures developed the doctrine of separation and I posted a few that may or may not be relevant to the topic.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

Actually the doctrine of separation begins in the very first chapter of the Bible ,Genesis chapter 1 (separation of light from darkness,day from night etc and then continues on right through to the last book of the Bible Revelation(Great White Throne Judgment).

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

Darkness, Light, and other forms of Creation were not born with a sinful and degenerate Nature.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

Haven't read the entire thread and this may have been mentioned, so, if it has, then here it is again....

To advocate "separation from the world" this verse is most usually used;

2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

But just what does it mean to be separate? Do we fashion ourselves "communes" where only the "holy and righteous" live? Well no. The disciples seems to have tried this just after Pentecost. It was a short lived experiement. We have to work, go to school and be a part of "the world". Thats unavoidable. So the separation can't be a "pysical" thing. It has to be a "spiritual thing" Strongs defines "separate" as follows:

1) to mark off from others by boundaries, to limit, to separate

a) in a bad sense: to exclude as disreputable

b) in a good sense: to appoint, set apart for some purpose

Look at No. 1. We separate ourselves from the world by "setting boundaries" as to what we will and will not do. What we will, or will not say. Where we will, and will not go. And so on. Theres just some things Christians will not say and do and places they will not go, because the Holy Spirit constrains their actions. I have to work, go to the store etc, but there are places I choose not to go. Things I choose not to say, because the Holy Spirit has set boundaries and limits as to what I can say, what I can do, or where I can go.We can't physically separate ourselves from the world, but we can do so "spiritually". And, those "limits and boundaries:" are not "church" set, they are set by the Holy Spirit. And they are not "one size fits all" boundaries either. Everyone works out their own salvation and must be "fully persuaded in the own minds" as to what his or her boundaries are.

Foe example: I have this thing about "debating". I won't do it. Personally, I think it is wrong and unproductive for me to debate the Scriptures. (Romans 1:29, et al). So is it wrong to debate? For me it is wrong, but its not my place to declare it is a sin to debate.

The Bible makes it clear that we should be modest in the way we dress. But, the question is, "What is modest?". To which I say, "I don't know. What is modest.... for you and God?". Afterall, the Lord and the individual is all that really matters, right?

I've said it here before: Holiness cannot be legislated. Holiness is a "spiritual" condition rather than physical. A list of "holiness rules" doesn't make holiness people. All it makes is rule keepers. And rule breakers.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

can we discuss it without focusing on minutia? probably not.

Be ye holy.... come out from among them and be ye separate......sanctify them through thy truth.... etc

Yes, under the law there were carnal rules about what to wear, what to eat, and whom to worship. Under the NT we are still prohibited to worship idols, but the food rules are gone, there are no special days to be observed, and the only dress injunctions are: dress moderately and place more importance on the inner than on the outer.

Jesus was holy/sanctified/separate but did not wear distinctive clothing and was able to mix with sinners.

Re: The Doctrine of Separation<<<
 

:spit