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-   -   AFF and New Members...it's sad! (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=34160)

jfrog 03-03-2011 05:52 AM
AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Why is it that AFF runs off almost every new member in the first few days that they are here? Something about that isn't right! We are brutal. We are barbarians. But WHY? What good does it do? And further, where in all of this is the love and understanding that so many of us believe in?

Digging4Truth 03-03-2011 06:24 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
I must miss out on these conversations. I didn't know anyone left.

rgcraig 03-03-2011 07:05 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Who?

Digging4Truth 03-03-2011 07:06 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 1039646)
Who?
That's what I was wondering too.

Hoovie 03-03-2011 07:08 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Forum life is an adjustment for many and some have difficulty tolerating diverse views. That being said, I hope we do not needlessly offend anyone at Apostolic Friends Forum. I can honestly say, I love all who post here and would enjoy breaking bread with all in real life.

New members are always welcome, and we should eagerly embrace our new friends.

jfrog 03-03-2011 07:25 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie (Post 1039649)
Forum life is an adjustment for many and some have difficulty tolerating diverse views. That being said, I hope we do not needlessly offend anyone at Apostolic Friends Forum. I can honestly say, I love all who post here and would enjoy breaking bread with all in real life.

New members are always welcome, and we should eagerly embrace our new friends.
Sometimes that's true about difficulty tolerating diverse views. But I think by and large their difficulty is created more in the way we relate our view than in their difficulty tolerating our view itself.

While you and maybe some others don't ever overly offend I think that many do. Myself included sometimes. And I agree that AFF should be a place where we embrace new members as friends... or at least potential friends... ;)

Anyways when a new member is offended we criticize them of not being tough enough to be here. It's like they are expected to be able to stand in the ring with us AFF heavyweights and trade blows and if they can't there must be something wrong with them. Well I think that some of us here may be a little too battle hardened sometimes. I think a little more understanding toward the new members would go a long way.

jfrog 03-03-2011 07:34 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 1039646)
Who?
Maybe no one's left for good yet. Maybe they aren't going to leave. Maybe they have and will come back. Maybe they will leave for good. Maybe they have already left for good. I don't know. But I do know I've seen a major lack of understanding toward new members. Maybe it's not so much an AFF problem but a problem with forums in general. Still we are better than that!

Michael Phelps 03-03-2011 07:39 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039656)
Maybe no one's left for good yet. Maybe they aren't going to leave. Maybe they have and will come back. Maybe they will leave for good. Maybe they have already left for good. I don't know. But I do know I've seen a major lack of understanding toward new members. Maybe it's not so much an AFF problem but a problem with forums in general. Still we are better than that!
Who has left temporarily?

I hate to sound like I'm harping, but in your original statement, you said "almost EVERY new member"....and that's a mighty broad brush.....and I must have missed it, I wasn't aware of anyone even leaving temporarily.....

jfrog 03-03-2011 07:40 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 1039660)
Who has left temporarily?

I hate to sound like I'm harping, but in your original statement, you said "almost EVERY new member"....and that's a mighty broad brush.....and I must have missed it, I wasn't aware of anyone even leaving temporarily.....
I am BROAD-BRUSHING!

rgcraig 03-03-2011 07:40 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039654)
Sometimes that's true about difficulty tolerating diverse views. But I think by and large their difficulty is created more in the way we relate our view than in their difficulty tolerating our view itself.

While you and maybe some others don't ever overly offend I think that many do. Myself included sometimes. And I agree that AFF should be a place where we embrace new members as friends... or at least potential friends... ;)

Anyways when a new member is offended we criticize them of not being tough enough to be here. It's like they are expected to be able to stand in the ring with us AFF heavyweights and trade blows and if they can't there must be something wrong with them. Well I think that some of us here may be a little too battle hardened sometimes. I think a little more understanding toward the new members would go a long way.
I haven't been around as much as I use to - - has this happened lately?

Digging4Truth 03-03-2011 07:42 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Let me first agree with Hoovies post which you are replying to here. Many are new to online forums and it is a brand new world of open thought and discussion. Heretofore they have been accustomed to a world where their belief systems come from one man behind a pulpit and he is right in all he says. It is a small and well confined world of... Well that's just how it is. This world of open discussion versus "Wow... that was great pastor" can be a bit disconcerting at first. But it is a blessing in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039654)
Sometimes that's true about difficulty tolerating diverse views. But I think by and large their difficulty is created more in the way we relate our view than in their difficulty tolerating our view itself.

This is so very true. There is a skill to presenting ones view with respect to the person with whom we are discussing these things. There are some who are abrasive in the way they present their ideas and I have a feeling that this isn't very different from the way they might communicate face to face when discussing opposing views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039654)
While you and maybe some others don't ever overly offend I think that many do. Myself included sometimes. And I agree that AFF should be a place where we embrace new members as friends... or at least potential friends... ;)
Again... agreed. But let's do realize that this isn't an AFF phenomenon. This is probably pretty prevalent in this medium across the board. Although it is often brought on by lack of communication skills we also have to remember that this medium requires a completely different set of communication skills all together. One must be more careful in this medium than even in face to face communication. In face to face communication I can see the facial expressions. I can hear the inflections in the voice. I can sense the attitude.

But in this forum something not meant to be offensive can be read that way because all I can offer are typed words but these words are delivered in is up to the reader to apply. This calls upon us to be wordsmiths more and more so that we not only say what we want to say but we also word it in a manner that the attitude in which it is delivered is well expressed and not open as much to interpretation.

For instance... one small thing. I use the term "one" rather than "you". Using the term "you" can be read many ways and can be taken as a personal affront. Use of the term "one" removes the possible personal attack that can be assumed by the reader.

It's a learned skill... should one desire to pursue it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039654)
Anyways when a new member is offended we criticize them of not being tough enough to be here. It's like they are expected to be able to stand in the ring with us AFF heavyweights and trade blows and if they can't there must be something wrong with them. Well I think that some of us here may be a little too battle hardened sometimes. I think a little more understanding toward the new members would go a long way.
Indeed. A little Christianity goes a long way. :)

Michael Phelps 03-03-2011 07:42 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039661)
I am BROAD-BRUSHING!
Ok, thanks for the clarification.

jfrog 03-03-2011 07:44 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 1039662)
I haven't been around as much as I use to - - has this happened lately?
Maybe, maybe not. Unless I think it will actually help I am not going to cite any incident/s that resulted in me starting this thread. This thread isn't about pointing fingers at anyone in particular. It's just a call to awareness.

Michael Phelps 03-03-2011 07:46 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039667)
Maybe, maybe not. Unless I think it will actually help I am not going to cite any incident/s that resulted in me starting this thread. This thread isn't about pointing fingers at anyone in particular. It's just a call to awareness.
The problem with starting threads like this that say "almost EVERY" without some examples is that you lose credibility. Maybe no big deal, but it sounds like a "the sky is falling" type of thread, and those generally get ignored.

If we are really running people off, and there are examples, then we need to examine how we're communicating, reach out to the folks that have been offended, try to make it right. It's tough to do that if there are no specific examples.

Just my opinion.

rgcraig 03-03-2011 07:46 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039667)
Maybe, maybe not. Unless I think it will actually help I am not going to cite any incident/s that resulted in me starting this thread. This thread isn't about pointing fingers at anyone in particular. It's just a call to awareness.
Then, why didn't you address it as a reminder instead of making a thread that immediately incites that new members are ALWAYS run off here. How much will this thread help them feel welcomed? :heeheehee

jfrog 03-03-2011 07:52 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 1039669)
Then, why didn't you address it as a reminder instead of making a thread that immediately incites that new members are ALWAYS run off here. How much will this thread help them feel welcomed? :heeheehee
hahaha. Well originally I was going to post some examples. But I thought better of it. So that might explain the thread title somewhat. Besides if I posted a reminder I would still be being asked who I was reminding this to and I'm not sure it would have been much different. I think the new members will enjoy seeing a thread taking a stance on more understanding toward them. Yes it does also insinuate that we have ran some off. And I am sure we have. AFF is not perfect. But it also insinuates that we are willing to talk through it and try to better ourselves. And in the end I think they will respect that.

I wanted to add that I said "always run off" because that's how it's seemed to me. I can't think of many new members since I've been here that have stayed.

Azzan 03-03-2011 08:06 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
It has always struck me how many new people post in the welcome mat section and then you never hear from them again. Anyone else notice that?

jfrog 03-03-2011 08:16 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azzan (Post 1039686)
It has always struck me how many new people post in the welcome mat section and then you never hear from them again. Anyone else notice that?
In fact here is one that's stayed since I've been here.

So you've noticed alot of new member vanishing. Thanks for the support. Though I would love to ask, how did you deal with the less than understanding comments you received here early on (and probably even some now)? Did you almost leave? Or did you luckily find just enough support to stay? Or was there something else?

(By the way Azzan's situation is somewhat unique in the details so I understand it isn't proof of what I am saying, however I think it parallels other situations pretty closely.)

Dagwood 03-03-2011 08:16 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Well, the only person I haven't seen post in several days is Old Paths II. If you're worried about where he/she has gone to, okay. No prob, although I will say it's been rather quiet since his/her posts have taken the back seat...

rgcraig 03-03-2011 08:20 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039688)
In fact here is one that's stayed since I've been here.

So you've noticed alot of new member vanishing. Thanks for the support. Though I would love to ask, how did you deal with the less than understanding comments you received here early on? Did you almost leave? Or did you luckily find just enough support to stay? Or was there something else?
Just because someone signs up and never posts doesn't mean they have vanished.

Some sign up so they can see all the forums. If you aren't signed in as a member you can't read the Debate area.

So, I think it's incorrect to assume "they are gone".

jfrog 03-03-2011 08:22 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 1039692)
Just because someone signs up and never posts doesn't mean they have vanished.

Some sign up so they can see all the forums. If you aren't signed in as a member you can't read the Debate area.

So, I think it's incorrect to assume "they are gone".
I'm not talking about people that never post. I'm talking about people that post a few times then get attacked then eventually leave.

jfrog 03-03-2011 08:39 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 1039664)
Let me first agree with Hoovies post which you are replying to here. Many are new to online forums and it is a brand new world of open thought and discussion. Heretofore they have been accustomed to a world where their belief systems come from one man behind a pulpit and he is right in all he says. It is a small and well confined world of... Well that's just how it is. This world of open discussion versus "Wow... that was great pastor" can be a bit disconcerting at first. But it is a blessing in the end.




This is so very true. There is a skill to presenting ones view with respect to the person with whom we are discussing these things. There are some who are abrasive in the way they present their ideas and I have a feeling that this isn't very different from the way they might communicate face to face when discussing opposing views.



Again... agreed. But let's do realize that this isn't an AFF phenomenon. This is probably pretty prevalent in this medium across the board. Although it is often brought on by lack of communication skills we also have to remember that this medium requires a completely different set of communication skills all together. One must be more careful in this medium than even in face to face communication. In face to face communication I can see the facial expressions. I can hear the inflections in the voice. I can sense the attitude.

But in this forum something not meant to be offensive can be read that way because all I can offer are typed words but these words are delivered in is up to the reader to apply. This calls upon us to be wordsmiths more and more so that we not only say what we want to say but we also word it in a manner that the attitude in which it is delivered is well expressed and not open as much to interpretation.

For instance... one small thing. I use the term "one" rather than "you". Using the term "you" can be read many ways and can be taken as a personal affront. Use of the term "one" removes the possible personal attack that can be assumed by the reader.

It's a learned skill... should one desire to pursue it.



Indeed. A little Christianity goes a long way. :)
By the way... :thumbsup :thumbsup

Azzan 03-03-2011 08:54 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039688)
In fact here is one that's stayed since I've been here.

So you've noticed alot of new member vanishing. Thanks for the support. Though I would love to ask, how did you deal with the less than understanding comments you received here early on (and probably even some now)? Did you almost leave? Or did you luckily find just enough support to stay? Or was there something else?
(By the way Azzan's situation is somewhat unique in the details so I understand it isn't proof of what I am saying, however I think it parallels other situations pretty closely.)
In all honesty, I thought I had a thick skin until I signed on and stopped lurking. I expected some reaction over my openess about my situation but I was not prepared for some of things that were said. Did I almost leave? Yes!

There have been a few on here who have reached out to me and I am grateful for that. And there has been some real soul searching discussions with one in particular. I'll be honest and say that I don't feel all warm and fuzzy here most of the time.

I think many of us are not aware of just how many different ways written words can be taken without having access to tone of voice, body language and facial expressions.

Cindy 03-03-2011 08:58 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
I am trying to remember if I jumped right in, or lurked before joining in on the discussions. I do remember being very shocked at some things that were posted. But I also found that most of the people loved each other. Yeah, there were some little cliques, :heeheehee. And some rudeness, just like a family. AFF has something for everyone, I think. And sometimes you get out of it what you put into it. I don't think we run people off, as much as some decide just to not participate.

jfrog 03-03-2011 09:01 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1039724)
I am trying to remember if I jumped right in, or lurked before joining in on the discussions. I do remember being very shocked at some things that were posted. But I also found that most of the people loved each other. Yeah, there were some little cliques, :heeheehee. And some rudeness, just like a family. AFF has something for everyone, I think. And sometimes you get out of it what you put into it. I don't think we run people off, as much as some decide just to not participate.
What would it take to change your mind?

rgcraig 03-03-2011 09:02 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1039724)
I am trying to remember if I jumped right in, or lurked before joining in on the discussions. I do remember being very shocked at some things that were posted. But I also found that most of the people lovedeach other. Yeah, there were some little cliques, :heeheehee. And some rudeness, just like a family. AFF has something for everyone, I think. And sometimes you get out of it what you put into it. I don't think we run people off, as much as some decide just to not participate.
I agree. It is what it is and some will be offended, but I don't think we intentionally run anyone off.

Cindy 03-03-2011 09:03 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039725)
What would it take to change your mind?
Change my mind about what?

jfrog 03-03-2011 09:03 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 1039728)
I agree. It is what it is and some will be offended, but I don't think we intentionally run anyone off.
I don't think we intentionally run anyone off either. And I hope you are not taking me wrong because I love AFF. But I'll ask you the same question I asked Cindy. What would it take to change your mind about people being ran off?

jfrog 03-03-2011 09:04 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1039730)
Change my mind about what?
People being ran off.

rgcraig 03-03-2011 09:07 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039732)
I don't think we intentionally run anyone off either. And I hope you are not taking me wrong because I love AFF. But I'll ask you the same question I asked Cindy. What would it take to change your mind about people being ran off?
I don't think "changing our mind" has anything to do with it.

Do you want us to change our minds to agree with you that people are run off?

Do you want us to change our minds to do something so that members aren't "run off"?

jfrog 03-03-2011 09:08 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 1039737)
I don't think "changing our mind" has anything to do with it.

Do you want us to change our minds to agree with you that people are run off?

Do you want us to change our minds to do something so that members aren't "run off"?
BOTH! Because no ones going to act any differently if they don't think there's a problem to begin with.

Let me elaborate on that just a little. I don't think admins have to be any more involved. I'm not complaining about that. I think they do a great job even though sometimes I don't understand why they do some of the things they do. I think we as individual posters need to be aware and more careful in our attitudes toward new posters. But as long as no one believes there's a problem then no one's going to change anything about their approach toward new posters.

rgcraig 03-03-2011 09:14 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039738)
BOTH! Because no ones going to act any differently if they don't think there's a problem to begin with.

Let me elaborate on that just a little. I don't think admins have to be any more involved. I'm not complaining about that. I think they do a great job even though sometimes I don't understand why they do some of the things they do. I think we as individual posters need to be aware and more careful in our attitudes toward new posters. But as long as no one believes there's a problem then no one's going to change anything about their approach toward new posters.
I think one thing you might need to consider too is a lot of people read here for a long time before they even sign up, so that aren't really new.

When they finally posts, it's for a reason usually and sometimes they come in with both guns blazing - so it works both ways.

Ferd 03-03-2011 09:14 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039629)
Why is it that AFF runs off almost every new member in the first few days that they are here? Something about that isn't right! We are brutal. We are barbarians. But WHY? What good does it do? And further, where in all of this is the love and understanding that so many of us believe in?
well..... a lot of them show up and let us know how stupid we are...


there are natural reactions...

they leave in a huff.... but if they are tuff enough to survive the onslaught, they (like you) become on of us.

Consider it similar to getting jumped into a gang.

Cindy 03-03-2011 09:15 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039733)
People being ran off.
I have only talked to one person that felt it best to leave because of the rudeness of some other posters. They did come back and I am very happy about that. This person contributes a lot to this forum in my opinion.

I guess I would want to know why they felt they couldn't post here. If they have a problem with one person, I don't think we can really help in that kind of situation. But let's face it, not everyone is sweet and kind. I try to be kind to everyone, and have fun. To be honest with you, there were times I felt like it would be best if I left. But I don't put my whole life out on this forum. And sometimes it's a refuge.

jfrog 03-03-2011 09:16 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 1039744)
well..... a lot of them show up and let us know how stupid we are...


there are natural reactions...

they leave in a huff.... but if they are tuff enough to survive the onslaught, they (like you) become on of us.

Consider it similar to getting jumped into a gang.
I'm with you on those posters whose first posts are about how stupid we are. Let's gang up on them... I have no problem with that. If they want to dish it out then they better be ready to take it.

Pressing-On 03-03-2011 09:18 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039738)
BOTH! Because no ones going to act any differently if they don't think there's a problem to begin with.

Let me elaborate on that just a little. I don't think admins have to be any more involved. I'm not complaining about that. I think they do a great job even though sometimes I don't understand why they do some of the things they do. I think we as individual posters need to be aware and more careful in our attitudes toward new posters. But as long as no one believes there's a problem then no one's going to change anything about their approach toward new posters.
Basically, you have a varied group of personalities which it is not possible to change. I think the old adage, "Birds of a feather, flock together" applies to a whole lot more than just this forum, but it does seem to stand true. Some join up and don't feel they can throw themselves into the discussion, they don't feel totally comfortable.

I think The Mrs said that she read a long time before ever commenting at FCF. Look at her now, she is part owner of this forum.

I remember a particular person at FCF who kept taking little digs at me in order to run me off. It didn't work. I'm still here. And it's just because I want to be and that person wasn't going to change it for me.

So, I don't think it is always a matter of running someone off. Some people decide it's not their cup of tea. However, I have seen some come in, with guns blazing, and pretty much run themselves off. I'm still trying to decide if OldPathsII was a pseudo poster, but if not, he/she would be a perfect example of running themselves out of town. LOL!

Digging4Truth 03-03-2011 09:19 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 1039744)
well..... a lot of them show up and let us know how stupid we are...


there are natural reactions...

they leave in a huff.... but if they are tuff enough to survive the onslaught, they (like you) become on of us.

Consider it similar to getting jumped into a gang.
And these posters probably have never had any discussion outside the back patting sessions of their local church. Their intellectual world has been so limited and everyone who thinks differently is wrong. They come and go without ever being burdened with an original thought.

Cindy 03-03-2011 09:19 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1039738)
BOTH! Because no ones going to act any differently if they don't think there's a problem to begin with.

Let me elaborate on that just a little. I don't think admins have to be any more involved. I'm not complaining about that. I think they do a great job even though sometimes I don't understand why they do some of the things they do. I think we as individual posters need to be aware and more careful in our attitudes toward new posters. But as long as no one believes there's a problem then no one's going to change anything about their approach toward new posters.
Are you speaking of someone specifically? Or more than one that runs people off. And how do we know if someone doesn't tell us, I can't post here because someone is rude to me, or whatever the reason is?

rgcraig 03-03-2011 09:22 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 1039752)
And these posters probably have never had any discussion outside the back patting sessions of their local church. Their intellectual world has been so limited and everyone who thinks differently is wrong. They come and go without ever being burdened with an original thought.
You hit the nail square on!

jfrog 03-03-2011 09:25 AM
Re: AFF and New Members...it's sad!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1039747)
I have only talked to one person that felt it best to leave because of the rudeness of some other posters. They did come back and I am very happy about that. This person contributes a lot to this forum in my opinion.

I guess I would want to know why they felt they couldn't post here. If they have a problem with one person, I don't think we can really help in that kind of situation. But let's face it, not everyone is sweet and kind. I try to be king to everyone, and have fun. To be honest with you, there were times I felt like it would be best if I left. But I don't put my whole life out on this forum. And sometimes it's a refuge.
I'm not asking for the admins to help this situation. I don't know of anything they could do. I'm talking about MORE individual kindness and understanding being shown toward new posters. And if you show that alot of kindness and understanding then great!!! What I am asking for is awareness from individuals so that they might at least put a little more thought into their responses toward new members. But that awareness isn't going to happen when everyone is saying AFF don't run off any members.


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