Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 105255)

Visual cussing....now, that's something different.

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter (Post 105265)

LOL -- Cussing? Really? I didn't see it as cussing. In fact, I didn't see it as being any different than someone being told/or telling another that they are going to hell for any host of things -- including wearing pants, cutting hair... to name a few.

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter (Post 105265)

LOL -- Cussing? Really? I didn't see it as cussing. In fact, I didn't see it as being any different than someone being told/or telling another that they are going to hell for any host of things -- including wearing pants, cutting hair... to name a few.

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter (Post 105276)

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 105278)

Yeah... I bet if Jesus had read it... things for him may have turned out differently too. ;)

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter (Post 105279)

That's who the other guy is -- Jesus. :D

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 105292)

I hope you don't mind the new addition to my sig...

If you do, let me know and I'll remove it.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 106286)

I had a lady come to me once and said "Pastor I am leaving this is not a perfect church and I am looking for the perfect church." I said well that is true the pastor is not perfect and neither is the church. But do me two favors when you find the perfect church call me I want to see it and secondly when you find it do NOT join for then it would cease from being perfect.:largehalo

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 106286)

I had a lady come to me once and said "Pastor I am leaving this is not a perfect church and I am looking for the perfect church." I said well that is true the pastor is not perfect and neither is the church. But do me two favors when you find the perfect church call me I want to see it and secondly when you find it do NOT join for then it would cease from being perfect.:largehalo

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 106294)

I heard Billy Davis say something once that struck me funny.

A family moved to his city, and wanted to attend his church. He met with them, and they started telling him how badly they had been hurt by a pastor, and that he would have to be patient with them and understand that they had a hard time trusting the ministry because of their experiences.

He listened politely until they had finished their soliloquy, and then told them, "That's fine. i totally understand where you are coming from. I've seen a few bad saints come through here who have hurt me, so it's going to take while for me to develop confidence and trust in you too, so we'll just work on this together."

:)

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 106294)

I heard Billy Davis say something once that struck me funny.

A family moved to his city, and wanted to attend his church. He met with them, and they started telling him how badly they had been hurt by a pastor, and that he would have to be patient with them and understand that they had a hard time trusting the ministry because of their experiences.

He listened politely until they had finished their soliloquy, and then told them, "That's fine. i totally understand where you are coming from. I've seen a few bad saints come through here who have hurt me, so it's going to take while for me to develop confidence and trust in you too, so we'll just work on this together."

:)

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 106311)

I actually think he handled it correctly.

I wouldn't go to a new church and say that even if it were true that I'd been abused.

Personally, I think letting them know where he stood was good in that I think these people were looking for coddling, etc. On the surface, the way you've explained it, it seems that way at least...

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 106315)

and do you think for a second it would be explained any different??

Highly doubt it.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 106294)

I heard Billy Davis say something once that struck me funny.

A family moved to his city, and wanted to attend his church. He met with them, and they started telling him how badly they had been hurt by a pastor, and that he would have to be patient with them and understand that they had a hard time trusting the ministry because of their experiences.

He listened politely until they had finished their soliloquy, and then told them, "That's fine. i totally understand where you are coming from. I've seen a few bad saints come through here who have hurt me, so it's going to take while for me to develop confidence and trust in you too, so we'll just work on this together."

:)

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 106327)

Well... like I said, based on the way it was explained, I think it was on the up and up. If it wasn't explained correctly, that's not my problem, is it?

That's between the one who explained it that way and God...

If it was a different situation than the way it was presented, then that'd probably deserve a different reaction.

I wasn't there so I don't know...

I'm not going to stress over it...

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 106367)

I know you know.....that there are two sides to every coin. Which side do you think the majority of ministry is going to take. Wait three sides, because of late I have witnessed the whole neutral/don't ask don't tell brotherhood.

I do agree with you however, i was not there either. I do tend to aire on the side of mercy though and instead of the brash comment defending the do-no-wrong preachers club I may have just prayed.

thats just me though

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 106367)

I know you know.....that there are two sides to every coin. Which side do you think the majority of ministry is going to take. Wait three sides, because of late I have witnessed the whole neutral/don't ask don't tell brotherhood.

I do agree with you however, i was not there either. I do tend to aire on the side of mercy though and instead of the brash comment defending the do-no-wrong preachers club I may have just prayed.

thats just me though

Originally Posted by Michlow (Post 106335)

What's ironic to me in all this. Is that a Pastor has a choice. He can resign from the ministry, and go get a secular job. But as we are told over and over again on the forum here. We can't be saved without a pastor.

So if someone abuses their authority and misuses us, we put up with it because we want to go to heaven. If we actually think that maybe they are acting inappropriately and go to a different church, we are expected to sit back and accept more of the same with a happy grin.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, to be perfectly honest.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 106371)

But the truth of the matter is, we are all human beings, and sometimes the saints need to know that the road runs both ways.

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 106376)

I do however think that if you change churches that you should sit back for a while. For a lot of reasons.

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 106379)

I agree here, bro... but with that in mind, you do understand that 'ministry' is held to a higher 'standard' (bad choice of words, sorry), right? I know you hold yourself very accountable.

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 106376)

I hear you on this MIch. This has been a year in which I have had to learn the whole forgiveness lesson(still learning) Not saying that about you...

NOt only are we expected to put up with it but are made to feel that we are hell-bound for going someplace else.

I do however think that if you change churches that you should sit back for a while. For a lot of reasons.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 106391)

A completely unrealistic standard is something else entirely.

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 106373)

I'm not defending do-no-wrong preachers, friend. I know there are freakolas out there... and I don't defend their right to be freakolas.

But I gotta tell ya... I'm not going to walk into a church and make that spiritual abuse thing a part of my conversations with the pastor... for a LONG time... until I feel comfortable there and with him...

If I never get to the point that I feel comfortable enough to talk about it, he'll never have to worry about hearing it from me because I won't be there anymore.

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 106449)

But to feel as though a pastor is unapproachable is unexceptable in ministry IMO.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 106371)

Brother,

Believe me, I have seen my share of preachers doing wrong things.

I'm not a member of that club you referenced.

But the truth of the matter is, we are all human beings, and sometimes the saints need to know that the road runs both ways.

Originally Posted by Michlow (Post 106392)

Actually the forgiveness part wasn't hard for me. I forgave, I have let go of the hurt and negative emotions. But the thing that I haven't done, and at this point am not willing to do is trust. I mean the first time, I didn't know any better, you know?

I was knew to faith, and I just accepted what those in authority told me. I let them twist the Bible to back up their authority, because I didn't know any better.

I am still trying to undo all the wrong teaching and twisted spiritual development that was brought about by their deviation. I don't hate the ministry, but neither do I trust them.

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 106455)

An 'unapproachable pastor' is not a pastor...

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 106482)

Not according to "The List".

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 106473)

A book I read referred to it as stones that continue to resurface. Forgiveness is a continuous action.

The book also made points that forgiveness has steps.

1. Forgive them

2. Forgive yourself.

3. Forgive God

4. Ask God not to hold it against them.

Number 4 is were I'm stuck.