Speaking In Tongues
 

When someone that isn't Apostolic or UPCI speaks in tongues, we typically think it's fake. As a member of the UPCI, I disagree. What are your thoughts....

Vickie Yohe recently posted about this on her facebook page, and it intrigued me.

I never assume it's fake unless it's a televangelist jumping back and forth into tongues while preachinw. Regular people not trying to sell something - I have no reason to think it's fake.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

What I think about tongues and ecstatic utterances is not determined by the speaker's denominational affiliation.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

I was speaking in tongues and having dynamic experiences with Jesus before I was Oneness. I dont assume someone is a fake unless they have no fruit.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Faith is not bound by denomination and neither is the moving of the Holy Spirit. The Lord will pour out his Spirit upon whosoever will.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Excuse me but speak for yourself and don't say "we". I don't know where you got that from.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

LOL :highfive

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Sorry that came out so rude

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Absolutely untrue! I have never heard anyone say you had to be Apostolic to receive the Holy Ghost. i received the Holy Ghost before i ever had any type of connection with an Apostolic Church, or any type of charismatic/pentecostal church. If i would have not received the Holy Ghost i would have never been baptized in Jesus name, for it was His Spirit that "led me into all truth".

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

amen

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Many people in churches that are not OP do get the baptism of The Holy Ghost. God honors faith.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

What about all those with faith that don't have the Holy Ghost? Did God honor their faith or are they just not as faith-filled as Pentecostals?

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Typically they just don't realize the experience is for them. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If they don't hear about this, its hard to have faith in it.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

And that's unusual for you, how?:heeheehee

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

If I answer this or express my thoughts, this thread will end up in the dump. I have that effect on threads where tongues are discussed. UnitedPraise, if you'd like your thread to be banished to a sub-section, I can get rid of it for you.:happydance

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Been around the UPC for years and never heard this thought directed in general to others who were speaking in tongues.
I have heard it directed toward certain televangelists, but this is an exception not the rule.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

The Bible specifically addresses this:
"have ye received the Holy Ghost, since ye believed?"

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

:thumbsup :thumbsup

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

I hate to open up this Pandora's box, but what about Gay Affirming churches that believe in speaking in tongues. Are they getting the real deal or what?

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

It does not matter. In affirming homosexuality they place themselves outside the body of Christ - which is the ultimate real deal. Same is true for those who might affirm adultery or murder. They don't need tongues, they need Jesus and repentance.

There are non Christian religions that speak in tongues... I am sure they think they are getting the real deal too...

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

I doubt non-christian religions "speaking in tongues" believe they are getting the baptism of the Holy Ghost while trusting in Jesus (or so they believe)

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Some do I think, albeit a "Jesus" they have made to conform to their own design. Consider the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and the cases of speaking in tongues among them for example.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Ugh, Prax. I remember seeing pictures of gays receiving.... something.... in the gay oneness church in AZ. Pics look like our church services. They're hands are raised. They're weeping. They're speaking in tongues.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

What case of speaking in tongues among them? All I know is it was claimed that in their history there was speaking in tongues. No independent verification for that

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Well either they are getting it, faking it or getting a delusion.

If they are getting it, the implications are tremendous

If they are faking it, the implications are , so could we or anyone else


If they are getting a delusion or a false spirit then how do we know who is really getting the real deal?

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

I don't know about independent verification, just know they have made these claims.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Getting it faking it or delusion. Yes. That is why it ultimately comes down to adherence to the scriptures in addition to experiential claims whatever they may be.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

IS THAT A REAL QUESTION? They're unrepentant of their homosexuality. Then there's that Chandler guy that used to post. He was a tongue talker in a gay denomination. Then he apparently prophesied that the denomination would disband. Then he left homosexuality. Then he went to the AoG. Then he disappeared from forum life. Do you remember him? Since you brought up the topic of reprobates. I just got in from a bday party. The party was at a church that is across the street from a gay club/bar. The club is a really small building. Place was packed out. Cars all along the street. Strange. That place never has so much as a full parking lot. I almost felt sorry for them. And I began to think, have they heard the gospel? Did they hear the good news and reject it? How many are wanting a way out but bought into the lie that they were born that way? How many don't know that JESUS can deliver them? Were they predestined to reprobation? It was a sobering drive home to say the least.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Any examples other than LDS???

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Homosexuality is a condition of ones present state of being which is in direct contradiction to Gods word and covenant and spiritual principles pertaining to the natural law of God established between a man and a woman. It is described as an abomination which is more than just a sin. You can't judge someones personal experience whether they are true or false by outward signs. Only God knows the heart.
There are many spiritual religions in the world outside of Christianity[ if I can still use that word] that speak in other tongues in their religion, they also lay hands on the sick and demon possessed and in their minds that is truth to them.
I attended a church once where the pastor's son would preach one of the best sermons every Sunday night that you could possible hear. He would worship in tongues, lay hands on the sick, baptise in Jesus name only. We thought he was Godly in every respect. It turned out that he was having a homosexual affair with the minister of music for years. Both of them were married and had the most beautiful children and wives one could wish for.
I personally have seen preachers preaching on Sunday speaking in tongues in full gospel organization and then on Monday run off with one of the members wives.
Tongues and appearances are not the way to have confidence in whether someone knows the Lord or not much less whether they have the Holy Ghost. Satan has mocked the truth with all different kinds of counterfeit manifestations to deceive many..
All I can say from life experience its self is this. In the full gospel movements there is more confusion and division than I have ever seen in any other christian identity. The people whom I have know that I have great confidence that they are real have been those people that had a spirit of love and meekness toward all things. They were the kind of people that you wanted to spend all day with.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Is speaking in tongues a "sign"?

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

ditto.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

I remember him. He was not practicing homosexuality. I did not bring up the topic of reprobates

I don't believe in predestination. This topic is about tongues.

Gay pentecostals not only claim to speak in tongues but as a congregation exhibit other gifts.

On the other hand, I am sure not everyone that spoke in tongues in our ranks really spoke in tongues. I have witnessed more than my share of tongue teachers in our ranks, encouraging others to fake it. These people seem to be mislead to believe that as long as they babble something that was the genuine deal and a sign of the baptism of the Spirit.

Do these gay Pentecostals really speak in tongues?

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

the LDS don't speak in tongues. There is mention of groups of LDS speaking in tongues way way back in their history before they arrived in Utah.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Other religious groups been observed to practice some form of theopneustic glossolalia. It is perhaps most commonly in Paganism, Shamanism, and other mediumistic religious practices.[65] In Japan, the God Light Association used to practice glossolalia to cause adherents to recall past lives.[66]

Glossolalia has even been postulated as an explanation for the Voynich manuscript.[67]

There are some who consider the following in Judaism to be some form of glossolalia:

Various rituals and references exist about prayer of people not familiar with the holy language, and the importance of prayers said by people who only know how to mumble the words without understanding them. In the 17th century it was said in the name of the Baal Shem Tov upon hearing the prayer of someone who instead of praising God who blesses the years (HaShanim) praised God who blesses the women (HaNashim). He said that this person's prayers are the highest and holiest. The texts to be recited during the Shavuot celebrations (original ceremony of Pentecost) must be read in the original Hebrew directly from the Bible, even if the person reading it does not understand the meaning.[68]

Certain Gnostic magical texts from the Roman period have written on them unintelligible syllables such as "t t t t n n n n d d d d d..." etc. It is conjectured that these may be transliterations of the sorts of sounds made during glossolalia. The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians also features a hymn of (mostly) unintelligible syllables which is thought to be an early example of Christian glossolalia.[citation needed]

In the 19th century, Spiritism was developed by the work of Allan Kardec, and the phenomenon was seen as one of the self-evident manifestations of spirits. Spiritists argued that some cases were actually cases of xenoglossia (from Greek,xenos, stranger; and glossa, language. When one speaks in a language unknown to him).

Glossolalia has also been observed in the Voodoo religion of Haiti,[69] as well as in the Hindu Gurus and Fakirs of India.[70][71]

From Wiki

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

My grandfather who evangelized, pastored and founded churches for over 50 years told me a story that might relate to this topic.
One time a woman was at the alter "speaking in tongues".
People were rejoicing, but he did not feel that something was right.
He went over to pray with her and when he began praying, she began screaming.
He stopped praying and she went back to speaking in tongues.
He said that he realized he was dealing with a demonic spirit and he began praying to cast out the demon.
He stated that in a few minutes she began speaking in tongues, but with a smile on her face.
He believed that the devil had imitated the Holy Ghost, in this instance.
Thoughts?

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

Possible I'm sure. A bit subjective too though given people screaming at Pentecostal churches is not uncommon, and feelings and smiles may also be counterfeited...

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

I've saw a man with a demon speak in tongues once. Completely different than someone who is filled with the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

I disagree with the characterization that abomination and sin is different. What is an abomination? Anything that God hates. Proverbs 6 says, "Six things does the Lord hate, yes seven are an abomination to Him". Is there a sin God doesn't hate? God hates all sin. All sin is an abomination to the Holy One. I only contend here because I have heard this line of reasoning to classify homosexuality in a category judging it as "one of the REALLY bad sins." But Proverbs 6 says lying, arrogance, sowing discord, having feet swift to mischief, dishonesty, shedding innocent blood are all things that are an abomination. I think we all are probably guilty of at least one of those sins. So if an abomination is an abomination you can't say the homosexual is engaged in sin any worse than your own. If not careful we can use a bias against homosexuality to have the attitude, "Well at least I don't do that." It is an extremely repulsive idea to those of us who do not struggle with same sex attraction at the perversion that homosexual sex is. But heterosexual sex outside of marriage is a perversion in God's sight too. Its just we can relate to its temptation so subconsciously we like to think its a sin "but not an abomination". God hates homosexual sex, He hates heterosexual fornication too. Both are abominable.

Totally agree here.


GOOD LORD! We had a campmeeting full of people who supposedly had the HG who couldn't discern that Sacha Cohen, although "speaking in tongues" was just faking it. Tongues are sign to unbelievers, not to believers, yet we have come up with this notion that tongues is for believers to all syand around and say, "Aha! There it is! Its official! They are now one of us! Welcome to the club, buddy!" Not scriptural.

Really great point. I 100% agree.

Re: Speaking In Tongues
 

From 1 Cor 14, yeah. So, how is that supposed to work, anyway?