Standards!
 

matthew23:26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

I know we have get are hearts right with God before we can worry about our ouside appearance but I am thankful for the standards that are taught to keep are inside clean..................
I have heard so many people say standards are bondage, legalism, ect…but I thank God for men of God that will stand up and take a stand on certain things for the safety of Gods people.
I don’t let my kids do a lot of things that are not “wrong” but I can see down the road to where it may lead so I don’t let them do it.
I am so thankful that there is still men of God that will take a stand for thing despite knowing that they are going to be accused of wanting to control and being a legalist and so on …. But from my experience they are just men that want a safe place for people in this dirty world.

Re: Standards!
 

I pretty much agree. Personal conservative and even UC standards placed in our lives for protection and preservation are fine, IF it is done without anger, wrath, and condemnation of those who reached different conclusions.

Re: Standards!
 

What you said in the bold is very poignant to this post. You are responsible for your children both as someone living under your roof and as minors. The question is, does your pastor have the same authority over your kids that you do? Does he have the same authority over you that you have over them? This is what separates a UC church from those that are not. It isn't the degree or strictness of the standards but rather the authority given to the "man of god" to enforce them and how far you let him into your home.

Re: Standards!
 

I am not anti-standards, but how do they keep our "insides" clean? Isn't that relying on our own works instead of relying on Jesus?

:doggyrun

Re: Standards!
 

That's the big 'IF"

Re: Standards!
 

It is. But that is pretty much how I approach it.

Re: Standards!
 

What are we really doing to our kids when we teach them and hold them accountable for things that are "not wrong" but are standards that some man has established as "his" standards?

Things are different than they were 30 to 40 years ago. In earlier days, in many cases, no one was allowed to question anything they heard from the pulpit. They made their children line up to whatever came across the pulpit.

Then as those children grew up in the 70's and 80's they left the strict standards and found their own way in the world and in religion. And I'm not just talking about the lowly members, I'm talking about the children of top leadership. And there are numerous examples of what I am talking about.

So, when we force rules on our kids that are non-biblical we may be forcing them from the church when they get to the point of thinking for themselves. Another preacher comes along, another set of rules and "standards" is demanded and how confusing to the the children.

Leadership needs to lead and not drive, and simply preach what thus saith the Word of God and leave the rest of the man made rules alone. Call them what you will, but un-biblical "standards" end up doing more damage in many cases than they do good.

Just my thoughts.....

Been Thinkin

Re: Standards!
 

So exactly how often do you see persons with conservative / ultra conservtive standards in the UPC not have condemnation for those who reach a different conclusion? Personally I have not found it much. The occasional rare exception and that is it.

My experience is the more conservative people are the more they tend to judge others salvation by standards.

Re: Standards!
 

I think the key is keeping things in proper perspective. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that even the more liberal among us have so required standards of conduct and even dress standards they would like the church to follow. There should be understanding as to what is clearly "sin" and what is becoming conduct for the church (in their opinion).

Re: Standards!
 

I would use myself and my entire Mennonite family as example.

We were never heavy on the judgement of other Christians even while being ultra cons ourselves.

Re: Standards!
 

If standards keep the inside clean there'd be no standard keeping person that has fallen into sin. All one has to do is keep a set of standards and they are perfect.

This is reverse of what Jesus said. He said make the inside clean so the outside will be clean also.

The outside being clean is the result of an inward washing not a means to being or staying clean.

Man judges the outward appearances but God judges the heart.

Faith in Jesus. Things that affect faith like prayer and reading the word. That is what we need and that is what people lack when they fall into sin despite appearing Holy and preaching hard on standards

Re: Standards!
 

BTW this is what I mean about priorities being emphasized. It has nothing to do with how often they are preached.

HTG has started but a handful of threads and each were about don'ts..rules and regulations, things we DON'T do

You also participated in another thread you did not start on tv and movies. Things you don't do.

So far it's all been about rules and regulations, particularly a list of donts

Re: Standards!
 

:thumbsup

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We are not talking about Mennonites. We are talking about United Pentecostals, AMFer's, and other conservative and ultra con Pentecostals.

Re: Standards!
 

Ok My brother and I and families attend UPC.

But more importantly, the point is, a conservative lifestyle or even ultra conservative need not go hand in hand with judgmentalism.

Re: Standards!
 

This is not true therefor it is a LIE!!!....most of them may have been about this but not all of them like he has said.......look up my profile.....

Re: Standards!
 

You may be correct that they "need not go hand in hand with judgementalism" but my 52 years of experience in and around old time Pentecost tells me the reality is that it does the vast majority of the time.

I can't think of a single UPC church I have been a part of, have visited, or know about that would accept a person attending as saved and in right standing with God if they did not adhere to the dress code. They might be kind but would never put that person as being in good standing with God and "living right", etc.

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I know of a handful that don't even have said (upc traditional) dress code, and quite a few others that would not make it an issue of right standing, but rather platform standards.

Re: Standards!
 

Im talking about in the last several weeks since you've started posting again. My words aren't meant to be malicious. I see a lot of emphasis on rules and regulations and even you just admitted here most of them may have been about this. Yes that is my point, most.

Lately it's been all, but in the long run it's been mostly...

That's my point. Think about it for a while bro. I don't mean this as an attack on you personally