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-   -   The opposing scale of regulation and efficiency. (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=34677)

jfrog 04-01-2011 05:28 PM
The opposing scale of regulation and efficiency.
 
It seems to me the government is put down when it doesn't have enough regulation to prevent some wrong (for example regulations on spending government money at a friends company instead of at walmart even if walmart is just a little cheaper) from taking place. However, right after it adds such regulation then it is complained that the government is inefficient.

I think that the more we try to place regulations on the government or government programs to prevent wrong then the less efficient those programs will be.

However, I think there is a "sweet spot" such that if we regulate to a certain degree and not past that degree that the government and government programs will be fairly unlikely to do something wrong and still fairly efficient.

Just something to think about.

coadie 04-01-2011 06:04 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1053301)
It seems to me the government is put down when it doesn't have enough regulation to prevent some wrong (for example regulations on spending government money at a friends company instead of at walmart even if walmart is just a little cheaper) from taking place. However, right after it adds such regulation then it is complained that the government is inefficient.

I think that the more we try to place regulations on the government or government programs to prevent wrong then the less efficient those programs will be.

However, I think there is a "sweet spot" such that if we regulate to a certain degree and not past that degree that the government and government programs will be fairly unlikely to do something wrong and still fairly efficient.

Just something to think about.
Name one program run by the gubment that is clean, efficient and not wasteful. Just one.

jfrog 04-01-2011 06:14 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 1053317)
name one program run by the gubment that is clean, efficient and not wasteful. Just one.
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Socialite 04-01-2011 06:28 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1053301)
It seems to me the government is put down when it doesn't have enough regulation to prevent some wrong (for example regulations on spending government money at a friends company instead of at walmart even if walmart is just a little cheaper) from taking place. However, right after it adds such regulation then it is complained that the government is inefficient.

I think that the more we try to place regulations on the government or government programs to prevent wrong then the less efficient those programs will be.

However, I think there is a "sweet spot" such that if we regulate to a certain degree and not past that degree that the government and government programs will be fairly unlikely to do something wrong and still fairly efficient.

Just something to think about.
:thumbsup

coadie 04-01-2011 07:04 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 1053317)
Name one program run by the gubment that is clean, efficient and not wasteful. Just one.
Young uneducated people are ideologues. They take a gubments word that the programs will be fair efficient and economical. They NEVER are.

Under Obama if an Inspector general finds waste and fraud, he will be fired without recourse or even meeting the rules and laws for termination.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101031

Former Inspector General Gerald Walpin filed two reports exposing gross misappropriation of federal AmeriCorps funds by a prominent Barack Obama supporter and was shortly thereafter fired by the White House, circumstances he told WND are likely linked and others have called an outright illegal action by the administration.

"I think you have to look at the facts and the circumstances and reach your conclusions," Walpin said in a WND interview. "I will tell you that [my firing] came only after we had issued those two reports to Congress, and I don't think that's a coincidence."



Read more: Obama fires watchdog who barked at his crony http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=101031#ixzz1IK6pUZqe

Obama supporters have low ethical standards.

jfrog 04-02-2011 08:56 AM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 1053351)
young uneducated people are ideologues. They take a gubments word that the programs will be fair efficient and economical. They never are.

Under obama if an inspector general finds waste and fraud, he will be fired without recourse or even meeting the rules and laws for termination.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=page.view&pageid=101031

former inspector general gerald walpin filed two reports exposing gross misappropriation of federal americorps funds by a prominent barack obama supporter and was shortly thereafter fired by the white house, circumstances he told wnd are likely linked and others have called an outright illegal action by the administration.

"i think you have to look at the facts and the circumstances and reach your conclusions," walpin said in a wnd interview. "i will tell you that [my firing] came only after we had issued those two reports to congress, and i don't think that's a coincidence."



read more: Obama fires watchdog who barked at his crony http://www.wnd.com/?pageid=101031#ixzz1ik6puzqe

obama supporters have low ethical standards.
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sandie 04-02-2011 09:03 AM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1053301)
It seems to me the government is put down when it doesn't have enough regulation to prevent some wrong (for example regulations on spending government money at a friends company instead of at walmart even if walmart is just a little cheaper) from taking place. However, right after it adds such regulation then it is complained that the government is inefficient.

I think that the more we try to place regulations on the government or government programs to prevent wrong then the less efficient those programs will be.

However, I think there is a "sweet spot" such that if we regulate to a certain degree and not past that degree that the government and government programs will be fairly unlikely to do something wrong and still fairly efficient.

Just something to think about.
"Fairly"? (just pretend there are a zillion question marks after that first one ;) )

The federal government needs to stay out of as much of the business, personal, economic world of Americans as possible.

Where exactly is this "sweet spot"? I say it stays within the boundries of the constitution, it doesn't get any "sweeter" than that.

jfrog 04-02-2011 09:40 AM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandie (Post 1053448)
"Fairly"? (just pretend there are a zillion question marks after that first one ;) )

The federal government needs to stay out of as much of the business, personal, economic world of Americans as possible.

Where exactly is this "sweet spot"? I say it stays within the boundries of the constitution, it doesn't get any "sweeter" than that.
I wasn't talking about any of the bolded. Maybe you misunderstood my post?

Socialite 04-02-2011 09:46 AM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
I'm convinced the majority of people who call themselves conservatives, are just knee-jerk, sound-byte reactors to anything that sounds disagreeable to their bumper stickers. In that way, there's not much a difference in terms of how they understand, articulate and talk through political issues as the green-haired, hippie liberal.

You say something about government, and regardless of WHAT you've said, they already have their response cued up: "WE HATE THE GOVERNMENT. LESS GOVERNMENT. SMALLER GOVERNMENT." Sounds like a Sarah Palin interview after while :0

sandie 04-02-2011 05:35 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite (Post 1053462)
I'm convinced the majority of people who call themselves conservatives, are just knee-jerk, sound-byte reactors to anything that sounds disagreeable to their bumper stickers. In that way, there's not much a difference in terms of how they understand, articulate and talk through political issues as the green-haired, hippie liberal.

You say something about government, and regardless of WHAT you've said, they already have their response cued up: "WE HATE THE GOVERNMENT. LESS GOVERNMENT. SMALLER GOVERNMENT." Sounds like a Sarah Palin interview after while :0
Goodness, quite the broad brush there.
I'm old enough to have lived in the America without the government being so big and intrusive, I happend to like it....Sarah Palin or no Sarah Palin.

sandie 04-02-2011 05:42 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1053461)
I wasn't talking about any of the bolded. Maybe you misunderstood my post?
Maybe I did. Can you put it a different way?

coadie 04-02-2011 05:48 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandie (Post 1053576)
Goodness, quite the broad brush there.
I'm old enough to have lived in the America without the government being so big and intrusive, I happend to like it....Sarah Palin or no Sarah Palin.
2 flush toilets
mercury light bulbs
detergent that doesn't clean.

Ferd 04-02-2011 09:13 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Government that does not free people enslaves them

Digging4Truth 04-02-2011 09:29 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1053301)
It seems to me the government is put down when it doesn't have enough regulation to prevent some wrong (for example regulations on spending government money at a friends company instead of at walmart even if walmart is just a little cheaper) from taking place. However, right after it adds such regulation then it is complained that the government is inefficient.

I think that the more we try to place regulations on the government or government programs to prevent wrong then the less efficient those programs will be.

However, I think there is a "sweet spot" such that if we regulate to a certain degree and not past that degree that the government and government programs will be fairly unlikely to do something wrong and still fairly efficient.

Just something to think about.
The sweet spot is this...

The realization that further centralization of government demands, without fail, further inefficiency.

The control should be on local and state levels with much less oversight by the federal government. MUCH... MUCH... MUCH of the federal government needs to be abolished.

We need to see the incredible shrinking government.

Digging4Truth 04-02-2011 09:30 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 1053596)
Government that does not free people enslaves them
Preach... :)

Digging4Truth 04-02-2011 09:32 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite (Post 1053462)
I'm convinced the majority of people who call themselves conservatives, are just knee-jerk, sound-byte reactors to anything that sounds disagreeable to their bumper stickers. In that way, there's not much a difference in terms of how they understand, articulate and talk through political issues as the green-haired, hippie liberal.

You say something about government, and regardless of WHAT you've said, they already have their response cued up: "WE HATE THE GOVERNMENT. LESS GOVERNMENT. SMALLER GOVERNMENT." Sounds like a Sarah Palin interview after while :0
You really wouldn't like what libertarians have to say then.

But... as a libertarian/constitutionalist I recognize your right to not like it. :)

jfrog 04-03-2011 04:06 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandie (Post 1053578)
Maybe I did. Can you put it a different way?
Sure. The government is criticized when there is some impropriety in one of its programs. However, once the government starts tightening regulations on such programs to avoid future improprieties then we all complain about that government program being inefficient and slow due to buaracractic red tape. Thus those two things, regulation and efficiency oppose each other and if we increase one then we will generally decrease the other.

jfrog 04-03-2011 04:06 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 1053596)
Government that does not free people enslaves them
:thumbsup I'm not sure how this applies though.

jfrog 04-03-2011 04:20 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 1053598)
The sweet spot is this...

The realization that further centralization of government demands, without fail, further inefficiency.

The control should be on local and state levels with much less oversight by the federal government. MUCH... MUCH... MUCH of the federal government needs to be abolished.

We need to see the incredible shrinking government.
Centralization of government is inefficient? To some degree that is true, but a more centralized government has more access to information and can thus utilize that information to better implement solutions to problems than not as centralized government could. So it's not as clear cut as libertarians try to say.

It's much like artificial intelligence. Sometimes things are better off centralized and other times they are not. It really depends on the cost of communication and error checking going on between each level. It also depends on the amount of redundancy you desire. Less centralization will usually mean it's harder to address problems as they arise and harder to implement and find more efficient complex solutions to problems instead of the simpler solutions that lack of centralization often produces.

coadie 04-03-2011 04:39 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1053683)
Centralization of government is inefficient? To some degree that is true, but a more centralized government has more access to information and can thus utilize that information to better implement solutions to problems than not as centralized government could. So it's not as clear cut as libertarians try to say.

It's much like artificial intelligence. Sometimes things are better off centralized and other times they are not. It really depends on the cost of communication and error checking going on between each level. It also depends on the amount of redundancy you desire. Less centralization will usually mean it's harder to address problems as they arise and harder to implement and find more efficient complex solutions to problems instead of the simpler solutions that lack of centralization often produces.
Centralized gubment is limited by the constitution. It is limited for good reason. The Marxists want to control the people.
You can't tell me the gubment can educate the kid in a class or heal a sick baby. Central control says the Doc and the teacher can't do their work without central planning.

jfrog 04-03-2011 04:42 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 1053691)
Centralized gubment is limited by the constitution. It is limited for good reason. The Marxists want to control the people.
You can't tell me the gubment can educate the kid in a class or heal a sick baby. Central control says the Doc and the teacher can't do their work without central planning.
That's just just coadie being coadie. No substance, nothing but soundbytes. Actually that's what his posts always are.

Praxeas 04-03-2011 04:51 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 1053317)
Name one program run by the gubment that is clean, efficient and not wasteful. Just one.
Coadie, you either did not read what Jfrog posted, did not comprehend it or there is just something weird about you that makes you post things irrelevant to the topic

coadie 04-03-2011 04:53 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1053693)
Nah, that's what conservative Christians want...
They main issue that signitices the liberal movement is how they treat people. They claim to do good works and help.

Explain why your people have doubled the number of poor and doubled the number of undmployed and promised the same the opposite?

Quote:
ATLANTA -Black unemployment rose again this past month, while the overall job rate declined to 8.8. percent, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

The report indicates black unemployment surged to 15.5 percent, according to the U.S. Department of Labor. The previous rate was 15.3 percent, which was down from January’s 15.7 percent. The rate had been 15.8 percent in December and 16 percent in November. The highest rate, since President Obama took office, was 16.3 percent in August.
Conservitives want this trend to stop. Central planning causes this. You drink too much koolaid.

Quote:
yesterday's September labor market report was lousy by any measure, with 263,000 lost jobs and the jobless rate climbing to 9.8%. But for one group of Americans it was especially awful: the least skilled, especially young workers. Washington will deny the reality, and the media won't make the connection, but one reason for these job losses is the rising minimum wage.

Earlier this year, economist David Neumark of the University of California, Irvine, wrote on these pages that the 70-cent-an-hour increase in the minimum wage would cost some 300,000 jobs. Sure enough, the mandated increase to $7.25 took effect in July, and right on cue the August and September jobless numbers confirm the rapid disappearance of jobs for teenagers.


Libs hurt the jobs for teens. We all know that libs don't care for the bottom of the workforce.

The September teen unemployment rate hit 25.9%, (2009)

Hardest hit of all: black male teens, whose unemployment rate shot up to a catastrophic 50.4%

No wonder do gooders hate conservativers. We read the numbers.

Democrats are bad news for poor people. But they promise there are programs coming to fix everything.

Why does a dem Congress and Dem whitehouse not solve the problem instead of making it worse?

"PROGRESSIVES" are bad news. But they not only don't take responsibility, they teach people not to take responsibility and find a target to blame.

jfrog 04-03-2011 04:58 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1053696)
Coadie, you either did not read what Jfrog posted, did not comprehend it or there is just something weird about you that makes you post things irrelevant to the topic
I'm beginning to think coadie == TROLL! That has to be the only possible explanation.

coadie 04-03-2011 05:01 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1053696)
Coadie, you either did not read what Jfrog posted, did not comprehend it or there is just something weird about you that makes you post things irrelevant to the topic
I understand very well what a central gubment is. Maybe you don't understand macroeconomics very well. I was in Mexico city at the time the world came off a fixed gold standard that would let curency exchange rates be dictated by the open currency markets. I knew at the time a lot of people would get nervous if the gubment couldn't fix and control rates.

We do have markets that offer free exchange rates and "central Planning" is something that creeps up and is at a high point as we speak.

You might consider some folks do have more education in economics some others around here. I can off the top of my head list a lot of industries that have left America because regulation damaged productivity and efficiency and they go where they can find free market envioronments.

jfrog 04-03-2011 05:05 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 1053699)
I understand very well what a central gubment is. Maybe you don't understand macroeconomics very well. I was in Mexico city at the time the world came off a fixed gold standard that would let curency exchange rates be dictated by the open currency markets. I knew at the time a lot of people would get nervous if the gubment couldn't fix and control rates.

We do have markets that offer free exchange rates and "central Planning" is something that creeps up and is at a high point as we speak.

You might consider some folks do have more education in economics some others around here. I can off the top of my head list a lot of industries that have left America because regulation damaged productivity and efficiency and they go where they can find free market envioronments.
LOL!

Praxeas 04-03-2011 05:08 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1053696)
Coadie, you either did not read what Jfrog posted, did not comprehend it or there is just something weird about you that makes you post things irrelevant to the topic
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 1053699)
I understand very well what a central gubment is. Maybe you don't understand macroeconomics very well. I was in Mexico city at the time the world came off a fixed gold standard that would let curency exchange rates be dictated by the open currency markets. I knew at the time a lot of people would get nervous if the gubment couldn't fix and control rates.

We do have markets that offer free exchange rates and "central Planning" is something that creeps up and is at a high point as we speak.

You might consider some folks do have more education in economics some others around here. I can off the top of my head list a lot of industries that have left America because regulation damaged productivity and efficiency and they go where they can find free market envioronments.
This is classic Coadieism.

You didn't address ANYTHING I said. Nobody questioned whether you KNOW anything..

The question is why do you post stuff that has nothing to do with the topic?

jfrog 04-03-2011 05:10 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1053701)
This is classic Coadieism.

You didn't address ANYTHING I said. Nobody questioned whether you KNOW anything..

The question is why do you post stuff that has nothing to do with the topic?
Because he's a TROLL! It's in his nature. he can't do anything different. He's probably laughing his butt of at us right now. So if ya stop entertaining him and giving him thrills he will just climb back into his hole.

Praxeas 04-03-2011 05:18 PM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
lol

coadie 04-04-2011 08:41 AM
Re: The opposing scale of regulation and efficienc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1053702)
Because he's a TROLL! It's in his nature. he can't do anything different. He's probably laughing his butt of at us right now. So if ya stop entertaining him and giving him thrills he will just climb back into his hole.
Quote:
Name one program run by the gubment that is clean, efficient and not wasteful. Just one.
You show a great way of running from this question.


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