We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Someone correct me if I am wrong. I just got done reading Revelation chap 2-3 where Jesus is talking to the churches. Some of these churches had charity, faith and service, seem to be doin all the good things yet Jesus had something against them. I am like what does God expect from us. I understand he died and paid for our sins, but we live in a very tempting world today. He told them except they repent, but still how many times do they have to repent.

I heard some preachers preach that we us today will never be perfect until we get to heaven as long as we are in the flesh.This is not the case the bible clearly says to be ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect. So could someone shed some light on this for me before I have a panic attack?

We do have to live a sinless life on this earth correct???

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

You think you're going to heaven?

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

Its a question I have, well according to Jesus we have to be perfect in order to go to heaven or to be with him or to accept us.

Those churches in revelation chapt 2-3 obeyed acts 2:38, they had charity,service,faith everything paul talked about.Yet Jesus still had some problems with them except they repent? So how do we get it right? Do we have to just repent with our mouth everyday for every little thing to be right. I dont know??

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

It would help you to do a word study on the Greek word translated "perfect". You can do this with online Bible study helps such as Strongs, Vines, etc.

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

alright I will look it up. thanks

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

Well, it depends on what you and the Bble means by 'perfect". Sinless? Well, then there will be exactly one Person in heaven...Jesus. For He is the only One without sin. The Bible calls Job a perfect man. Yet, in studying Job, you'll find Job was a self-righteous man. He was proud of his "spirituality" and of his works of charity. Jobs test was to help him see his self-righteousness and, in the end, Job said "I hate myself". That was Jobs victory over his test. Jobs "perfection" was that he loved God and hated evil, but that doesn't mean Job was sinless. If he was sinless, he would had no need for God. If WE coud achieve some "sinless" state, we too, would have no need of a Savior.

Look at it this way, virtually every Bible "hero" committed some wrong doing. Adam, the first son of God, disobeyed God. Moses did too. David sinned as did his son, Solomon (the wisest man on earth). King Saul rebelled against God while Samson laid his head in the very lap of sin. And the list including Jonah, and, in the NT, Peter, who compromised with the Jews. Some repented, while others did not. Sin, in some form, is evidently, one of the flaws of human nature.

We are humans, born with flaws (thanks to Adam and Eve). The Lord helps us overcome them and forgives our flaws. Thats the reason John wrote 'But AND if we (Christians) sin, we have an Advocate...."

The word "perfect" in the Bible had different meanings than it does in our everyday venacular. Like the word "confess" We think "confess" just means to admit somethng. But, in the Bible "confess" also meant "to agree". I don't "admit" to God my sins because He already knew and knows them. I "agree" with God that my sin, is, well, sin, and I am in need of the Savior.

To equate "perfect" with "sinlessness" is to begin a long and arduous journey down a road of perpetual defeat. Just when we think we have achieved "perfection" some joker cuts us off in traffic and we say something in anger. Then, we think we have failed and have to "repent and do our first works" all over again. Paul said he never quite got there, and neither will we, not until we leave this body and all of its flaws behind.

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

If we are in sin at any given time we should be afraid. If we ARE a Christian Jesus says he will rebuke and chasten us. Then if we dont repent why would we think we will enter his Kingdom? Jesus said better to pluck out eye, cut off hand than to commit a sin.

Men teach we cannot be consistently obedient to Jesus. They could not be more wrong.

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

The Bible often uses what I call "absolute language" to stress a point. Example: 1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. and 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Wow...pretty "absolute".

Yet, in that same book, we read.... My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (Admittedly, I misquoted this verse in the above post. Was too lazy to look it up). As ated earlier, "perfection" doesn't necessarily equate "sinlessness".

God wants us to strive for a "sin-free" life. But, in spite of our best efforts, we may commit some wrong-doing. In spite of the fact that we, as Job, may "love God and hate evil". God doesn't scratch out name from His Book when we fail.... He offers us a forgiving, helping Hand.

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

One Accord said:

Me:

I never said he would blot one out who fell. If they repent they will be restored. However if one does not come to the place of overcoming THIS is what Corvet is talking about.

3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:2-5

Is short our works must be perfect.

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

Kinda hard to know if you're sinning, sometimes, isn't it? I mean really, who knows the complete list? It might even be a sin for me to type this post, being all cynical n stuff. :lol

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Rather he said:

Romans 12:1

12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Present our human BODIES holy to the Lord. Its the LEAST we can do! Our reasonable service. Thats how God sees it.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

I respect your veiws, Bro. Michael, and would be happy to discuss them elsewhere, but, I think it would be best to direct our comments to the brother asking the question, rather than to one another.



But, since it might help Bro. Corvet, I was referring to what Paul wrote:

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Bro. Corvett, read this:

Romans 3:11-15. The word "perfect" here is complete, mature.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Thank you for all the responses, it just seemed to me after reading rev chapt 2-3 that it struck me as wow this particular church had faith, charity and service and God was still not pleased. Granted he still gave them space to repent, but it just amazes me.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Corvet,

It is amazing when our eyes are finally opened. The frail teachings of men for some time now have multiplied until believers no longer believe the words of Jesus. When you let his words speak and receive them you will be changed.

Many say perfect just means "mature". So that would have Jesus saying "Be ye therefore MATURE even as the Father in Heaven is MATURE. Matt. 5:48

Would that make his words more acceptable to them? If it REALLY only meant we are supposed to have the same MATURITY as the Father?

Be blessed that you have seen the truth. As you draw near to YHWH he will draw near to you. If you are Spirit filled you have the power to obey Jesus commands. The enemy does not want you to forsake all, die to self and follow Christ.

But Jesus does. He will keep you by his power to the day of salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

So we are to b complete in our actions as Christ was... John 15:4-15.

We are to obey the Father as Jesus did the Father's will and if we do so we are his friends. YEP that would fit in nicely with perfect or complete. IF you sin you have a advocate with the Father, Jesus christ the righteous.

Also yes God does take you out of the book of life.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Most people will simply after reading your concern about he churches of Ephesus shrug it off and say.... "you don't understand grace." In reality they don't understand grace. They makea view of grace that somehow changes God's reality of justice when we sin, thus they make it more mercy and tolrance of sin to say we still stand right before God and saved. Basically you have the many that are called and not hot and won't be chosen manipulating words and scripture to make themselves and all the other good people ok in each others sight. Then they will ask... "are you perfect." As if your failures as a whole means right standing right now. As if your lov for sin and failures change what God expects. Basically they want you to minimize God's justice through a paradigm that makes your goodness acceptable vs the excellence God desires. Many are called few are chosen.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Michael... notice it is always about them lessening what is acceptable. Pefection is clearly viewed within he viewof Jesus Christ. What does Jesus say? We are to do as HE DID to abide as HE abode in the Father and do the Father's will as HE did. IF we do so we abide and are his friends. So the next time you have people that want lukewarm gospel of.... well you are not Jesus. The simple answer is. Yes I am like him if I am following as he did the Father's will which I am told I can do and to do such is to be as Christ and called his friend.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Yes, one has to be absolutely perfect to go to Heaven. One must be absolutely sinless.

That's the bad news.

The good news is... Jesus.

Romans 4:24-25
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Jesus is our justification.
Jesus is our righteousness.
Jesus is our propitiation.
Jesus is our completion.
Jesus is our holiness.
Jesus is our rest.
Jesus made us sons of God.
Jesus is our sanctification.

Jesus is our... everything.

If HE dwells in us and we are one with Him... all that He is by nature is transfered to us by virtue of the cross... though we be absolutely undeserving.

Every false religion on earth has a list of things one must DO to be perfect and experience the ultimate state of existence (salvation). Biblical Christianity is the ONLY religion that teaches... you can't. Give it up. You can't make it to Heaven. You can't act right enough, dress right enough, know enough, believe right enough, or build enough to get to Heaven. NOTHING you do can get you to Heaven. In fact, you at your BEST will not please God. Why? Because it's still YOU. You have to DIE. You have to be crucified with Christ, living only because He now lives in you. Living your life in this physical world through the power of the indwelling Jesus Christ. Now... He imparts all that He is freely to you... that you might be justified before a Holy God and enter Heaven. In Christianity it's not about what you do for God. It's about what God has done for you.

Those who are "hidden in Christ" are therefore perfect, because He is perfect. Oh, I know they don't always "act perfect". But they are perfect by virtue of the new nature of Jesus Himself (the Holy Spirit), who is dwelling within them.

Man is a three part being:

Body - Physical self.
Soul - Psyche or mental self.
Spirit - Spiritual self.

Being born again regenerates the spirit of man by virtue of an imparted new nature. The Spirit of Christ within a man makes a man's spirit perfect. It's the mind and habits of the flesh that simply have to be brought into alignment with the new nature.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Aquila you teach false doctrine. ABIDING is by DOING! JEsus said so! You are not righteous while still being unrighteous. You are not his friend while in sin. HE will compel you to turn away but you are at enmity. We are righteous because he leads us TO DO righteousness and we follow by faith and he judges us right before him. In doing so he cleanses us from sin. As he walked we are to walk.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness25 is righteous, just as Jesus26 is righteous. cf John 15:4-15

The underlined I agree with but you view of imparting of justification is OSASish.

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

If we love the Lord with all we have, we will be perfect and keep his comandments. Search the scriptures daily. It is a comandment that we read the book. Won't it be wonderful there. Bless the Lord, Praise Jesus.:happydance

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

I am afraid I am a long ways from perfect....

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

I think that is the point though. Walking by faith is perfect. To not walk it is to be of the flesh and imperfect.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Jesus was accused of the same thing. Besides, I didn’t get the memo stating that you were authorized to be the arbitrator of truth. Man is totally depraved and is incapable of achieving holiness in the human self. Righteousness is imparted by God’s Spirit alone. One cannot work their way to Heaven, for if righteousness could come by obedience to a law, Christ died in vain. I see elements of Pelagianism (a false doctrine) in many of the posts you’ve written.

No… we are righteous because He is righteous. The moment you are born again, you are declared righteous in God’s sight. You’re not on probation until you get it right, nor are you expected to walk away and never sin again, not even knowing the Holy Scriptures. The Christian must come to realize, appropriate, own, and live the fact that he or she has a new nature, is a new creature, and has the abiding Christ within. They need to realize that the moment they received the Holy Ghost, their spirit was regenerated. Yes, the soul (the mind) has to be renewed through study of the Scriptures, prayer, and meditation. This will bring the mind into alignment with the new nature within. And yes, the body has its sinful tendencies and lusts. As one grows in grace the very POWER of Jesus flows as we put on the mind of Christ, bringing discipline. And through this we are brought into victory over the desires of the flesh.

It’s a life long process.

The born again Christian has a new nature, is a new creature. They WILL desire and practice righteousness. So we agree. However, we might disagree with the underlying causes and effects of the new nature we have received.

My son is four years old. While playing in the yard he stepped in dog poo. He hopped into the house on one foot crying and wanting me to clean his foot off. Why? Because he is human, he has a human nature. Now, if he were a pig or a dog, he might have rolled around in it without any issues. The Christian is born again. A new nature has been given. A new nature now abides in the believer. The Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, is abiding in the believer. The believer has now become ONE with Christ Jesus. When a born again believer sins, they will feel convicted of said sin. Why? Why don’t they just feel free to “live it up”? Because of the new nature. They realize that their actions are not congruent with the abiding nature within. They will desire to be clean. In prayer they will fall before the Heavenly Father pleading for Him to cleanse them. Sin will therefore not be a “practice” or continued behavior for the born again Christian. It is IMPOSSIBLE. They are new creatures.

You are a male by nature. You might choose to wear women’s clothing, wear makeup, and even act like a woman. But you are NOT a woman. Why? Because you don’t have a female human nature. Now, if you’re born again, and the Spirit of Christ abides in you, guess what…you’ll want to give those dresses to a lady, stop wearing the makeup, and begin acting like the man you are. Why? Because Christ Himself is living through you. The disciplines don’t make you righteous. I know men who have the Christian disciplines down, and put us all to shame. But…they don’t have that abiding relationship with Jesus. They are pure religionists. They think that their works make them righteousness. Their righteousness is self generated, a “self righteousness”. However, Luke, you have the Spirit of Jesus abiding in you. You are a partaker in the very nature of Jesus Christ. You have new nature. By virtue of your being a new creature…you LOVE righteousness and feel compelled, yes, even rejoice, in doing righteousness. But don’t take the credit. It’s not you…it’s Christ in you. Jesus is your everything. Jesus is the very air you breathe.

Many believers think that their actions determine if they love Jesus or not. And yes, actions are a gauge, but they are not the final determining factor. They are merely an indicator.

Let me ask you a question. It will fully reveal if you’re looking at this legalistically, or biblically. How does a saint of God who is struggling with Christian disciplines and sin increase their love for Jesus, thereby bringing a life that is congruent with the new nature imparted to them? I’d like to know your answer. I’ll share my thoughts afterwards. We both might be able to take away something from the other’s answer to this question.

God bless and keep you.

P.S.
When it comes to being justified by faith (Romans 5:1-10), we simply accept it. It’s just as true as John 3:16, Acts 2:38.

With regards to Jesus being your propitiation....Jesus isn’t partly your propitiation. Jesus is either your entire propitiation or He isn’t your propitiation at all.

Re: We have to Be perfect inorder to make it to he
 

Excellent point. Here's a question for us to just mull over... it will help to avoid legalism.

How does a believer who desires that level of victory acheive a love for Christ that is sufficient to overcome sin and bring desire for a loving obedience?

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

I believe you are perfect. Oh, maybe not in yourself, you'll have ups and downs, victories and defeats... but in Him you are absolutely perfect. The book of Colossians states that you are complete in Him. Nothing needs to be added. You're just being conformed into His image. That's a life long process of sanctification, as prompted by the indwelling Holy Ghost.

The pages have been stained... by the blood He shed for you. God doesn't see the sins or imperfections. He sees only... Jesus Christ.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

THANK YOU...hope HE agrees with you...:thumbsup

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

So you "ain't" Jesus!

Scripture is truth and you don't like it.

Man is incapable of being perfect not of simply doing good.

LOL seriously you need to learn what justice/righteousness is and it is not Reformed doctrines view of impartation like Lutzer and Sproul teach.


Conerning your comment. It is true but it depends on what it is in reference to. Technically it is wrong. Righteousness is imparted by the very Word of God or his divine expression in any form. The law was the righteousness of God. EVen reformed teachers teach that.

From that previous point to this you are talking about two different realities and point of Paul and confusing it with others.

In myself no I cannot do what God demands as I am flesh and I am spirit and I cannot in myself know God's perfection and how to do justice toward all. The reason Christ died has many aspects but it has nothing to do with negating practical righteousness to the leading of God will how we are judged to receive eternal life. Justice toward sin could not be acheived by the law to those who had faith. Christ had to obtain that authority of which the LAW was a shadow of. We recieve the righteousness of Christ in two ways. Perfection to do God's will by the Spirit and forgiveness of sin by a new covenant of which CHrist is head in which he imparts his nature/righteousness to us which is his LEADING to do. Instead of on stone it is by his Spirit in which we realize perfection. Not a forensic justification for eternity at faith but practical justification by our response to his leading. THAT is what prophecy says.

It wuld be semi-pelagianism. Oh and that would be the view of the first centuries of the church Mr. GREEK FATHERS!



Really... Yes we are righteous because if we FOLLOW we will DO righteous because HE is righteous. LOL


Really... That would be because the context of the message is to receive covenant standing by faith in his work. I am already seen right of heart before covenant standing when a person believes. That does not mean I have received salvation yet though nor does simply believing have I been forgiven and removed from me. Nor does it mean I have been born again. Simple belief is a "righteous thing" but it doesn't mean I am in right standing concerning my sins etc...




You child seeing a "accident" immediately turned to be cleansed. Also I would have issue with

1) knowlege to do vs intentional.

The nature is the ABIDING Spirit and Jesus clearly teaches how abiding works. Paul also clearly teaches it. If you follow/led by which is a active realization of response you are children of God. That is a practical response to the righteousness/leading of the Spirit in which we are judged positionally.

If he follows he is ONE.

.

They feel conviction yes and the law brought convicion as well as does ALL KNOWLEDGE!

Maybe maybe not.


Partially true. you are making absolutes of black and white conversion and that is not the case NOR is it what scripture teaches. People are given the righteousness/spirit/nature of christ but that does not mean they remain and follow him. Grace is the impartation of the Spirit TO DO the will of God.

YES IF I choose to CONTINUE TO FOLLOW! Because a person has received the knowledge/righteousness/leading/nature of the Spirit does not mean I will continue. I choose to be a SERVANT. His impartation of the Spirit does not make me obey.

God giving you righteousness by Spirit vs writen code does not change how God does justice toward mans response. You are righeous because God leads you and you CHOOSE to walk by faith. The discipline is the SPIRIT. How in the world can you make the two not the same. LOL The law of the SPIRIT is our discipline and it is our righteousness by HIM who is the source of the righteousness. If we don't obey are not righteous.

Their works give them if led by the Spirit God's consideration and judgment of being "right of heart." If they are doing it through the flesh they will fail.

IF what you said is true then you are deceivd. HOW in the WORLD can a BY FLESH seeking righteousness put to shame the righteousness of someone who is led by the SPirit?




Having a new nature imparted does not make me righteous in itself. It allows me to now the will of God. I am righteous IF I do the will of him that is in me not simply because HE is in me.


He is if I choose him not because he is there compelling me.

Uh for now I will say NO as I am unsure what your whole meaning is behind this statement.


If the Christain knows...

1) If they are struggling to do. They need to pray and fast and seek the elders of the church and the body and lean on God for his strength in the time of temptation. If they continue to fail most likely they are simply appeasing the flesh that... hey I tried. If you love me you will obey my commandments. He has not given us anything we cannot overcome. We don't dwell in sin.

I’d like to know your answer. I’ll share my thoughts afterwards. We both might be able to take away something from the other’s answer to this question.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

I believe He agrees with His Word. If God saw it any other way... who'd have a chance?

I find this interesting. The legalistic crowd who are so quick to dismiss justification by faith and the finished work of Christ being our propitiation, proclaiming that we have to do righteous works to be saved, ignore their own sin and imperfections, believing that somehow they're going to receive special treatment by God. I haven't met a perfect legalist yet. According to their own paradigm... they themselves aren't going to Heaven.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Under your paradigm aquila. Those that are called are chosen. I also love you just throw out a wide ranging use of "perfect" that is not what is argued. Typical! Aquila will you be judged in the end saved or given eternal life without works/faith? If you don't believe the living righteousness that is in us which is the living Spirit of Christ does not practically save us from ourselves by FAITH and we ae judged righteous by it. You teach a lawless God and gospel an a false doctrine of grace.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Hey Luke, are you sure you gonna make it to heaven?

Why or why not?

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

I have faith but no I don't know and neither does anyone else that is human. That is why it is called the judgment in which we are judged according to our works both good and bad. God is just and consistent. He will either say well done thou good and "faithful" servant or depart from me you worker of lawlessness I never knew you.

Eze 18:24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

So considering 1 John 3:2, it says we are sons of God right now. In other words, we don't have to die to know that we are God's children. Do you think God would send his children who have born of Him to hell?

You also said "no human knows". How did Paul know that a crown was waiting for him if he couldn't even know whether he was perfect enough to make it to heaven?

2 Tim 4
7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Enlighten moi!

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

He didn't know. He was speaking in faith. He found out if he was right, after he died. (Or he will, come judgment day. Depending.) He may be saying "Lord, Lord, didn't I write most of the New Testament?"

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Timmayyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

tgbtggggggg! :D

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

So Timmy, what exactly don't you believe about Jesus Christ?

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

Seems a little off topic, doesn't it? ;)

Briefly, while I could say there are things I "don't believe" about Jesus (and a lot of other things), I prefer to say that I am skeptical. About what, specifically? Everything. :D

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

This fits with what I have been learning over the past few years. It is impossible to live for God based solely on works, just as it is impossible to live solely on a 'once saved always saved' Grace only basis. We have good works as the grace of God gives us strength. And we continue to receive the grace of God as we strive towards the mark. You must have both to be a follower of Christ. We do not sit down and take our ease after we receive the Holy Ghost, and let God push us down the straight and narrow in a wheelchair of grace. No, we run the race with perseverance. When we fall, we get up and ask God for forgiveness and put the sin behind us.

I agree completely with Aquila that this is a life-long process. It is impossible to become a perfect saint the moment you rise from the baptistry, speaking in tongues. You are a born again creature, but you are a creature in a human body. Many times new believers will be handed a list of sins and told that they are now free from the bondage of sin. Why, yes they are. God frees them from the addiction of pornography, smoking, and drunkenness, for instance, but sometimes they struggle with the habits. God broke the chains, the things that they could not control, but they may still have a habit of reaching for a cigarette just before bed. Until they realize this, they may slip a few times. Unfortunately, when they go to church smelling like cigarette smoke, they get bashed up and down and reminded IT'S A SIN! As if they don't already have that conviction in their heart! So now they are confused and they wonder 'hey, I thought I was delivered!'

What should happen instead is the body of Christ should lift them up and encourage them. God breaks our chains of sin, but it is up to us to move our feet away from that place in our life. Throw the cigarettes away and don't buy any more. Pray, fill your mind with things of Christ, and surround yourself with brothers and sisters who can strengthen you. Soon the believer will be free from that habit and he or she can move on with their walk with Christ. Next steps might be learning patience, or mercy, or how to guard the tongue. It's a process, people.

Learning to be like Christ is like building a house. You start with a foundation and begin building from there. But building a strong, beautiful edifice is not done overnight. Why are so many elders that we look up to, well... old? Because they've been learning these principles their whole life. They once struggled with the same things the new believers do, and all have stories of things that God is perfecting in them in their old age. I recently heard a great older preacher talk about how God was using other people with bad attitudes to get to character flaws he didn't even know he had, like a precision surgical instrument. God never stops perfecting this vessel, and personally I think we will continue to learn how to be more like Him even after we are caught up to meet him. We will be free from the temptations of the flesh in heaven, but I wonder if perhaps we will still be learning how to exercise the fruits of the spirit when dealing with other people.

For anybody here who is struggling with a sin or a weakness of character, realize that you simply need to ask God to deliver you and He will set you free. You will be free, but you need to realize that occasionally there may still habits that need to be broken. Sometimes people have stories of being completely delivered from both the addiction and the habit, but sometimes your struggle is not against the addiction, but against a habit. This is where works come into play, and this is where grace gives you the strength to do good works. Once you realize that, know that it's just a daily process of putting one foot in front of the other. And just because you might fall again doesn't mean there is no hope. You just have to get back on the path, start a fast, read your Bible, and pray. Living for God is not for the faint of heart, and there is no Easy button, especially in these last times. There is no way to walk with God easy, and trying to do it easy will only make it hard. But if your heart is truly for God, you can make it.

Re: We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven
 

According to Paul, we must "Die Daily"
According to Peter, "Be Ye Holy, for I AM Holy"

If you live by the WHOLE BIBLE you will be perfected unto Christ.

The problem with Christian Society is that they like to pick and choose.
OSAS do not follow Peter or Paul or even Christs teachings.
Pure Legalists do not rely enough on "Faith in Christ"

It takes both, Works displaying your Faith.
Remember, Jesus did not come to destroy The Law (for he WAS the Law/Word) but to Fulfill The Law.

As a Christian you must
1) Believe that God Is
2) That he is a rewarder of those that seek him
3) That Jesus Christ is God
4) And follow all the teachings of Christ and his Apostles


Yes as you follow Christ, your ways, thoughts, and actions will change.

Biblically, the only thing you NEED to get to heaven is "Christ in you, the hope of glory" as this will lead you to be "the image of Christ". Remember, we are the "Clay on the Potters Wheel". We are being transformed into the Image of Christ.