Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder (Post 1073762)

I remember feeling a certain confirmation in my spirit after hearing an interpretation. Now days I'm left skeptical. The most recent interpretation I heard was God saying, "prepare your harvest?"

Matt 9:38, Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest


The harvest belongs to God, not us personally. These days I really don't feel that "confirmation."

Originally Posted by ImThankful (Post 1073796)

I would say it only happens at our church a couple times a yr.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1074069)

Bump...why do we go by "feelings"?

If you go by intellect you know God said "I will never leave you nor forsake you" no matter how you feel

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1074069)

Bump...why do we go by "feelings"?

If you go by intellect you know God said "I will never leave you nor forsake you" no matter how you feel

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder (Post 1074107)

It's more than a feeling. That's the best way I could describe it, a feeling.

There's something about when God speaks, it bears witness with my spirit that the message is genuine. It's indescribable.

There's just been certain wording also that leave you curious, was that really God?

Would God say in TI, "prepare your harvest" when the harvest belongs to him?

Yes, he said he would never leave nor forsake us. And?

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle (Post 1074092)

We all base things on how we "feel." In the context of my comment, I "feel" based on what I know concerning the word of God...however it is also based on a strong inner witness. We all should have that.

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder (Post 1074107)

It's more than a feeling. That's the best way I could describe it, a feeling.

There's something about when God speaks, it bears witness with my spirit that the message is genuine. It's indescribable.

There's just been certain wording also that leave you curious, was that really God?

Would God say in TI, "prepare your harvest" when the harvest belongs to him?

Yes, he said he would never leave nor forsake us. And?

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1074134)

Prepare the Harvest could mean mean get ready to harvest.

Harvest is both a noun and a verb.

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074175)

"T&I" will be experienced when it is promoted and desired and expected.

Much of the desire for T&I comes when the ministry is majoring in the minors, and not presenting deep spiritual and practical truths. The folks get restless and hungry for what God desires.

Paul clearly stated that true ministry in the native tonque is the most desirable to impart truths to the Body of Christ.

Originally Posted by houston (Post 1074180)

Great post. Paul said that tongues is the gift of least importance.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1074179)

I disagree. All the gifts will operate when the ministry is balanced. I can assure you we don't major in the minor stuff at my church

You also misrepresent what Paul said. It's sad that to this day even Charismatics and Pentecostals are confused about tongues and interpretation

What Paul did NOT say was he would rather speak in a 10 words of his own than 1000 words of an interpretation

1Co 14:19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

He said he would rather speak few words of his own language than a thousand in tongues that nobody understands. Interpretation is a language we understand

1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
1Co 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?

He isn't dismissing interpretations and he certainly did not say these only occur in churches that major on the minor

That's as bad an excuse for why the gifts are not operating in someone's church as the excuse small churches use for why they are so small being that people just don't want truth.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1074183)

. In no way did Paul justify that assertion that T&I are for churches that major on the minor lol

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074367)

I believe Paul did say that, "even more to prophesy..." which in this context I also believe he is speaking of anointed preaching. I am not against T&I, I deeply desire to hear the word of the Lord.

Functionally, how much do we really see of what Paul declares "unless you bring some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching"? Further, why are tongues needed for this to happen in the church? We heard a GREAT deal of this in our church, but not much tongues.

I am not protesting "T&I", I am troubled by the lack of substance, in this area of the ministry of the church.

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074368)

I didn't say that Paul said that, nor did I mean that that is the way it should be, I said that in many cases that is the way that it is.

I have seen many times in the long past, that out of deep emotional groaning for the things of God, came the explosion of "T&I".

I believe this deep longing came because of a lack of deep expository preaching that satisfies the spiritually hunger of believers.

I don't know if anyone has experienced similar.....or not???

Currently, because I have pursued and found ministry that functions as Paul said, "..some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching..." those deep groaning are satisfied.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I've seen this stuff happen in all kinds of different churches. It has more to do with faith and willingness to allow the gifts and be used of the gifts.

Churches where they don't happen don't want them to happen

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1074379)

All we know is Tongues happen according to Paul and when Interpreted it's purpose is to edify the body. Your speculations are unscriptural

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074404)

Speculations?????? My thoughts are my thoughts, just as yours are yours.

However, if you read and understand I Cor 13 & 14, it is readily clear that Paul is instructing against misuse of the gifts of the Spirit. And it is clear that he believes teaching of "substance" in the native tongue, in the church is the most profitable. No, he is not prohibiting tongues, but he clearly is placing some boundaries and order.

My posts are not just speculations, they are based squarely on the truths of Paul's teaching. So, I see your objections as mistaken.

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074469)

Are there two threads with the same name?

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074404)

Speculations?????? My thoughts are my thoughts, just as yours are yours.

However, if you read and understand I Cor 13 & 14, it is readily clear that Paul is instructing against misuse of the gifts of the Spirit. And it is clear that he believes teaching of "substance" in the native tongue, in the church is the most profitable. No, he is not prohibiting tongues, but he clearly is placing some boundaries and order.

My posts are not just speculations, they are based squarely on the truths of Paul's teaching. So, I see your objections as mistaken.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1074574)

I didn't refer to posts, I referred to your assertion that T&I mostly occur in churches where ministry majors on the minor...not one verse to support that

And you added "I believe this deep longing came because of a lack of deep expository preaching that satisfies the spiritually hunger of believer"

Not "The bible says" but "I believe"...sounds like speculation to me

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074607)

I can speak the truth form experience and understanding, without quoting scripture. If all you know is a scientific understanding of the scripture, you will never "know" God.

You are still taking the statement out of context, I did not say it should be that way, I said is happens. Nor do I particularly see this use of T&I as inspired. Your argument completely misses the point, but hey, you refuse to understand.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1074620)

That is just like your UR doctrine, based on subjective reasoning and not objective evidence.

Scientific? I asked for SCRIPTURES lol not science. ROFL. BTW You just judged me. How do you know I don't already know God? I know Him. KNOW is not an emotion. It's Intellect. I can READ His word because He gave me an Intellect to KNOW Him. I can talk to him too, not just sit there and be happy or sad in fits of emotional highs and lows. I use what God gave me, a brain

Truth is not a subjective emotion. 1+1 is true, not because you feel like it is true. God is real. He lives. He is True. I can know what His word says by my intellect. If you approach His word by your own feelings then you are subject to read into what the word says what you are predispositioned to feel

You made a valuation. You said "Much of the desire for T&I comes when the ministry is majoring in the minors, and not presenting deep spiritual and practical truths. The folks get restless and hungry for what God desires."

The opposite might be true. The desire might come from a ministry that is balanced and a ministry that is balanced promotes everything scripturally for the church including the fruit and the gifts.

Then you added "I believe"...That sounds like your opinion. That sounds like you are speculating. You don't have scripture to back that up. You have your opinion, how you feel on the matter, what you "think".

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074632)

"If all you know is a scientific understanding of the scripture, you will never "know" God."

Knowing God most definitely includes the emotions and spirit of humans. That is the exact point I was making. "...the letter kills, it is the spirit that makes alive..." It is not either or it is both!!!

Are you an engineer or an accountant? LOL

I did not judge you, maybe you judged yourself? Based on the bolded, in your quotes above, who is judging who?

The opposite certainly is true in very many contexts, but it was NOT true in the context that I was referencing.

Of course it is my opinion, based on my knowledge and experience. You quote a lot of scripture, you readily apply YOUR opinions and YOUR understanding of what certain scriptures mean. This is a discussion, I will post scripture and my opinions as I choose, you can choose to engage my posts or not.

You would do well to engage the discussion, voicing your opinions and quoting scripture, but tone way down on the attack mode. We are friends here and should carry on as such. You have good opinions and understanding to share, but quite frankly you cause your audience to be very hesitate to receive some of your contributions.

This is my opinion and my observations, you may do with it what you will.

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1074632)

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1076474)

I already know God. The bible is a book, not a test tube. You read it and understand it. God gave you a brain, use it


Having a relationship but understanding God's word is not defined by one's whimful emotions. How do you think we got so many false doctrines going around? Everyone thinks they "feel" what is right.


If you think for one second that means the word of God (letter) kills you are seriously deluded or you are simply mis-using the word of God for your own argument. I suppose you think it's ok to go out and hang yourself because Jesus said "go thou and do likewise"? The word of God must be handled honestly and intelligently or you will never "know" God..see how it works?


You, you speculated that I did not know God. Before that you speculated/insinuated that churches that have the gifts in operation are shallow churches


You're experience is subjective. You presume a church that is more deeper teaching is somehow more spiritual, yet you just spent time actually trying to refute such a notion lol...I bet you won't even get that point


I don't claim my views of doctrine is based on emotions. I don't claim the bible means whatever I "feel" it should mean. This IS a discussion and I HAVE been engaging what you've said, that's why we are here


Well wait a second, you imply I don't know God and you are gonna point your finger at me? ROFL. I was just testing your words vs scriptures, you were the one that suggested I don't know God CJ


I have been and will