Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

Who is your creator; the State or God? Who is the sovereign head and authority above your 'church'; the State or God? Does your 'church' assemble for business; or do you assemble in Christ? Where does your 'church' dwell; in commerce or in God?

Does your corporation have a Board of Directors? Is there a corporate Financial Committee or a Building Committee? Do you have a corporate list of members? (Members of Corporate Churches are considered shareholders of the corporation and are personally responsible for all corporate judgments, liens, liabilities, etc.) If so, your corporate officers, committees, and members are legally accountable for the "Charitable Organization";
There will be those who can explain this away, but not with scriptures, only with there on wise words! Do you have the Time to study this out, or just watch more TV instead. In
info link below
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../1702880/posts

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

What scriptures do you use to forbid churches from incorporating or having a Board of Directors or a Financial Committee?

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

emty answer, you have. When did God need help from the Goverment to be relavant. You seem to protect the goverment being over the church.
Lets protect truth.
Something about truth, no one like to see it.

We live in a world where opinions rule and reasoning. Church history proves, until 1964 this trend did not start in the church.
If churches are under Goverment rule, then when will the Goverment comand the church Hire gay Pastors.
Tell me anything the Goverment rules you think they did a great Job At.

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

Amazing, first of all she asked a question not gave an empty answer.

Second it's really incredible that from her question you drew your conclusions that she is protecting the government over the church

third if it's TRUTH then why did you avoid answering her question with scriptures like she askjed

Fourth the church is NOT under the government. The government has no say in whether a church hires a homosexual. You might be thinking of China where the have an official church that has to abide by certain government restrictions

Fifth..are you on crack? Just sayin :heeheehee

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

It wasn't an answer. It was a question. Let me repeat it: What scriptures do you use to forbid churches from incorporating or having a Board of Directors or a Financial Committee?

True. So back your position with scripture instead of reasoning and opinions. :coffee2

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

Thanks, Prax. It's a little confusing to ask a question and be accused of giving an answer. :D

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

lol

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

I would like to state a few things
1) Why does a church incorporate? A: To limit the liability on those in charge, both civil and some criminal.
2) Why have a board of "Deacons"? A: It is a government mandate that any non-profit organization have a board of directors that over see how monies are spent. Why? To limit the corruption that can happen in all non-profit organizations.
3) Is there in scripture that dictates against a structured organization? A: No, it is actually demands it with in the 5 fold ministry, Paul directions to Pastors and Deacons, Old Testament Temple structure, etc.
4) Why are you against it? A: Some leader step on your toes? Following another idiot like Harold Camping? This is just another "IRS is unconstitutional, so don't pay them" type scam.

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa whew! Omgoodness that was so funny. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahhahhahhaha aaaaaaahaa ....whew!

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

If anything, perhaps you should reconsider the title of the thread since you immediately went off course with Government in responding to MissB's response to your confusing posts and responses.

Seems like a bipolar thread where you can't make up your mind, first, on what the intent was behind posting it. Secondly, to swing so far another direction in your responses has me scratching my head in confusion.

Now, for the sake of clarification, which topic would you be interested in allowing like-minded responses to come? Church Incorporation or Separation of Church and State, or Hiring Gay Pastors?

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

So, if I undertand the tread makers point, a church that has no government is more biblical than one that does? I don't think so. Government plays a vital role in the operation of the NT church.

A unincorported church that uses its scarce fundss (taxes) to fund governmental programs that are unbibical and sometimes anti-christain is more biblical than an incorporated church that is exempt from paying taxes?

Unicorporated churches are unbiblical because there is no system of accountability and responsibilty on the part of the leadership? They can serve as they see fit, with no governing body to provide leadership and direction? Their doctrine can be driven with the winds of change, and the congregation can follow or else? This is biblical?

An unicorporated church that speaks, but never listens, is more biblical than a church that gives its congregation a voice and the right to question?

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

Yeah, now yer gettin' it! :lol

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

http://baptistlaw.blogspot.com/2006/...orporated.html

Historically, because of its informal organization, an unincorporated church had no legal existence, with the following consequences:
• The church could not own or transfer property in its own name; rather, the property had to be held by one or more persons in the church.
• The church could not enter into contracts or other legal obligations; rather, one or more persons in the church would have to enter into such contracts or other legal obligations. If the church defaulted on its mortgage payments, the members who signed the church’s mortgage contract would find that their money, houses, cars, or other property were at risk.
• The church could not sue or be sued; rather, one or more persons in the church would sue or be sued. If someone sued the church for injury from a slip and fall, the members of the church would be sued, placing their money, houses, cars, or other property at risk.

Several states have passed laws to limit the unfortunate legal consequences of the unincorporated association status upon individual members.

Incorporation

The principal aspect of a corporation, distinguishing it from an unincorporated association, is its status as an entity, able to exist and operate as a separate legal being [interestingly, the concept and name of incorporation is derived from the Bible -- the church as the “body” (corpus) of Christ]. The above-described legal shortcomings of an unincorporated church eventually caused most churches to adopt the corporate legal organization, for the following reasons:
• The church corporation could own or transfer property in its own name.
• The church corporation could enter into contracts or other legal obligations. If the church defaulted on its mortgage payments, the members who signed the church’s mortgage contract would not be personally liable.
• The church corporation could sue or be sued. If someone sued the church for injury from a slip and fall, the church corporation, not individual members of the church, would be liable. [NOTE: This discussion of unincorporated associations and corporations should not be construed as an endorsement of litigation; God’s Word in I Corinthians 6 flatly prohibits a Christian from taking a brother or the church to court.]

Since all corporations, including churches, are organized under state law, some Independent Baptist leaders have argued that churches should never incorporate. The following section answers some frequently asked questions on that important issue.

Frequently Asked Questions

1. “Aren’t incorporated churches creatures of the state?” No. Virtually every Independent Baptist church began as an unincorporated association. In due course, some of those already existing churches chose to adopt the corporate status, usually for the reasons mentioned above.

2. “Doesn’t incorporation of the church constitute a subordination of a church to the authority of the state?” No. God created three primary institutions -- the family, government,and the church -- each with its own God-ordained sphere of responsibility. The primary purposes of incorporation -- to own property, to enter into contracts, and to sue or be sued -- are within the sphere of the God-ordained role of government. “The law recognizes the distinction between the church as a religious group devoted to worship, preaching, missionary service, education and the promotion of social welfare, and the church as a business corporation owning real estate and making contracts . . . The former is a matter in which the state or the courts have no direct legal concern, while in the latter the activities of the church are subject to the same laws as those in secular affairs.” Gospel Tabernacle Body of Christ Church v. Peace Publishers & Co., 506 P.2d 1135 (Kan. 1973).

3. “I am Biblically opposed to government licensure of the church. Isn’t incorporation a form of licensure of the church?” No. Licensure is defined as “an administrative lifting of a legislative prohibition.” Under American constitutionalism, churches are not prohibited from forming or operating; there is no governmental agency which approves the creation of a church. Your church started before it was incorporated. As noted above, a “church . . . may exist for all the purposes for which it was organized independently of any incorporation of the body . . . and, it is a matter of common knowledge that many do exist and are never incorporated.”

4. “Aren’t incorporated churches subject to more governmental regulation than unincorporated churches?” No. With respect to taxes, zoning regulations, building regulations, fire regulations, health regulations, and employment regulations, an unincorporated church is subject to governmental laws to the same extent as incorporated churches.

5. “Are there any Biblical grounds for opposing incorporation of churches?” LLM defends, not dictates, the faith of Independent Baptist churches. LLM holds to the Biblical and historical Baptist doctrine of separation of church and state. If and when incorporation creates an unnecessarily intrusive and Biblically unwarranted relationship with the state, the church should reconsider incorporation.

6. “I don’t feel Biblically that my church should be incorporated. Can my church unincorporate itself?” Yes. Just as a church voluntarily chooses to incorporate, a church can voluntarily choose to dissolve its corporate status. LLM suggests that a church consult with an attorney to determine the statutory procedures for dissolving the church’s corporate status and the legal consequences of reverting to its status as an unincorporated association.

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

Incorrect. The main purpose of incorporating is to indemnify the directors and/or members. No director and/or member is held personally liable for the actions of the corporation. Therefore, incorporating protects the directors/members from liability.

There are also other federal & state protections specifically afforded churches as 501c3 organizations, and churches are specifically exempt from certain requirements.

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

I have decided that if one cannot write an intelligible paragraph explaining their argument, then I must disagree with their position.

I will now step down from my high horse.

Carry on.

:happydance

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

Then you must diagree with just about everything I say.

Re: Church Incorparation is NOT of God
 

Now you're just causing trouble.

*disagree

:foottap