Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

I have two young children. My daughter is 6 and my son is 3. It amazes me to think that they will never grow up knowing the fear and anxiety that I experienced while trying to seek the baptism of the Holy Ghost. This was such a huge part of my life and experience growing up and they will never know it.

Before I left the UPC I didn't know that I felt this way. Even after I left over doctrinal issues I still held to the belief in the initial evidence doctrine and still sought after the power of the Holy Ghost.

After we left our pastor didn't do much of the pentecostal stuff anymore. Over time we came to not long for it anymore. It wasn't until I had been out for maybe a year that I was watching a youtube clip that someone had posted of a child seeking the baptism of the Holy Ghost that the emotion and relief that I would never have to go through that again began to flood over me.

Then it hit me, my children will never have to go through that! See, I never really thought it was that bad until I thought of having to put my own children through a pentecostal altar service. They deserve my protection and to put them in the middle of that really scares me.

If I had not left the UPC how would I have handled it when they went to youth camp or even in our own church where the pressure to come to the altar is huge. Would I have had the ability to walk up to a hysterical altar scene and remove my child from that situation? Would I have protected my child from those people who would lay hands on them and tell them to "hold on hold on" in one ear and "let go, yield to God" in the other ear.

I am not trying to offend even though I know this may offend some. It just scares me to know that I might have allowed this to happen to my children. Second, I wonder why my parents didn't keep me from this as a child? I know they believe it and consider it a great experience. I still remember as an eight year old child my mother praying with me for hours at youth camp and all I wanted to do was make her happy and get the Holy Ghost. I felt comfortable with her but there were tons of other people around screaming and hollering in my ear.

Looking back, this was an overall terrible experience. I wonder sometimes how much damage this caused me over my lifetime. I have struggled a lot with confidence issues and with anxiety and I wonder if maybe I would have turned out different had I not been subjected to that torture at the altar call.

I even have this issue with some baptist that I have fellowshiped. They would always want to have an altar call after church and it really gave me a lot of anxiety. There is so much performance anxiety from my early years that I still have a very hard time praying in public or allowing people to pray for me.

So my questions;
Will you allow your children to seek after the Holy Ghost at a young age and if so,will you be defensive and protect them from a lot of the folks who surround them in the altar? I have seen preachers push down on people's heads and there is a lot of clapping and loud praying going on. There is a lot of emotion and things can get out of hand. My sister, who is still very pentecostal, rolled on the floor because the preacher said God wanted our sacrifice and to do something outrageous and a big lady fell on her. She was not injured, probably because of adrenaline, but she claimed at the time that she thought she was going to die but that God healed her instantly.

Also, if you will allow this seeking to happen, did you go through the same thing as a child or were you converted as an adult? See, my parents came to the apostolic faith in their late teen years so they would not have had the trauma of dealing with the altar call as a child. I don't think they were aware of how much this could damage their child. I didn't even know myself until years later when I started really thinking about this.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

A little broad brushing there on your part I think. I don't know why you would address ex UPCers rather than UPC members. But that aside, a child seeking the Lord should never be motivated by fear whether placed by others or a misconstrued view of their Heavenly Father. When I became a Christian in my mid teens, and later spoke in tongues, I do not remember fear being the motivation - though I think I have seen it in some others.
It is wrong and yes I would intervene.

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i saw a little girl last night get moved by the Spirit, bring a tear to your eye, she had her hands up praising God, and was emotionaly envolved in her praise.

why wouldnt you want your kid not to seek after God? What it seems like is some of you have been abused or something over the years, I have been in and out of pentacostal churches, and while i may add you do see pressure from people in the upci about seeking tounges, I have never seen the scale of it like that in a trinity pentacostal church, mainly the church of God (clevland) which is the denomination i grew up in.

whether we like to admit it, The baptism of the Holy spirit is biblical, John said i baptize you with water, but the one who comes after me who was before me will baptize you with the Holy ghost.

Something happend in samaria to the point that simon the socerer was wanting to buy this power so when he lays on hands they to recieve the holy Ghost

people who give themselves over in true worship is a canidate for the Spirit. The spirit falls in worship, its not locked into any specific denomination, it happends to baptist methodist, catholics, it happends to chinese, american russians etc

its not something we labor for, its something God gives freely

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Even though I prayed for the holy ghost several times, I received the spirit while praising God with faith not in a seeking mode.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

its a expression i use to mean the same as you have expressed in the qouted

we seek God in praise, by drawing closer to him in praise and worship

not a literal, hey God were you at??

the bible says draw nigh unto him and he will draw nigh unto you

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Yep, as usual. I tried to point this out before

It was a wonderful experience for me to receive the baptism and speak in tongues. It was full of Joy. To this day I still experience this. I thank the Lord for what he gave me.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

I, myself, have a 7 y/o and 4 y/o. After witnessing (here and there) what I've seen in the past, nothing recently, I do not feel it necessary to coerce (sp?) my children into praying/seeking the Holy Ghost until they're really, honestly ready and full of questions with answers we can show them for their understanding; they're too young to be released from my accountability for one thing, IMO. Besides that, most smaller children I've seen get the holy ghost are the ones causing most of the trouble, whether in the home, church, or out on the streets. Not to broadbrush by any means, only from what I saw where was going to church at the time. Since being away from that atmosphere, I've seen far better results when the Spirit baptism is explained to allow the child to grow in their own experiences with life, sin, etc and realize how much more meaning being baptized later with the Holy Ghost really holds. To me, it almost comes across as if "the younger the child, the better chance of getting to Heaven before everyone else does." Just from what I've seen; others may not have that perception...

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

I agree with your statement that we seek God in praise, but I was not seeking, I was just praising to a faith filled song on my walkman jogging around an air force base on a solitary road at night. no one around me, no prayers, just faith filled worship.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

man that is some awsome stuff.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Personally I don't believe in strong "encouragement" for little kids to spend time at an alter begging God for the Holy Ghost

I believe in teaching kids HOW to pray, praying for others (Intercession) and offering praise and thanks giving. I believe in teaching about the Holy Ghost and letting them decide when they are ready

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Exactly. Coercion is counterproductive in most cases I think - whether child or adult.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

This is probably for a different thread or something.... but I think it should be noted that the ultimate goal of seeking the Lord is in proper perspective.

If the ultimate goal is simply "speaking in tongues" then coercion could quite effective...

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

As I child I WISH I had someone to pray with me to receive the Holy Ghost. I spent many days seeking God, alone. We were baptist and my parents knew nothing about (or very little about) speaking in tongues. The little they were taught as wrong. However, I would sing around our city, so it would land me in all types of churches. I will never forget the first time I heard a preachers speaking in tongues because I asked my mother what was going on. She told me we would talk later, but could not provide me with much (other than she thought he was just putting on a show). However, in my heart, I knew I wanted to experience what the other people were feeling when they fell on the floor, cried, and spoke in tongues...etc. So I decided that since I believed in Jesus, I would pray and ask Him to fill me. He did, and at the age of 7/8 (can't remember and nobody was there to record it...they did not find out I spoke in tongues until many years later) I did speak in tongues, and operate in the gift of tongues and intepretation. However, I remember my seeking process. I would shut myself in my room, play a gospel music cd and just worship God until tears would flow down my face.

I don't remember when I actually spoke the first time! That's strange and I wish I could be like my friends that can tell you the date, the place, and even around the time...etc. but I do know "I HAVE HIM." :)

The children at the churches I am in fellowship with are encouraged to seek the Lord, praise the Lord...etc. but they are not made to do anything. They are just encouraged to be kids. Usually though, they get filled at a very early age and its during the praise or during the altar call. ITS BEAUTIFUL and should never turn into anything other than that...it grieves my heart deeply to hear otherwise.

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BTW if you teach genuine faith and love, there should be no anxiety

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

:thumbsup

You got that right, No one needs to be pressured todo anything, it will fall into place with faith and love tword God.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

OK, well, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was being forced to get the Holy Ghost. I could see how that would be misunderstood.

But there was a lot of preaching about hell and heaven and as a child I wanted to go to heaven and not burn in hell. Also, every other child around me had received it. No one ever forced me or even asked me for that matter.

But I wanted what everyone else had. They looked like they were full of joy and so happy. From my perspective, my mom and dad both spoke in tongues, I wanted God's spirit. That was the only way I knew to get it.

So, I went to the altar and cried and pleaded. I was instructed that once I had completely turned my life over to God and given him complete control I would speak in tongues. Imagine the difficulty, as a young child, wanting to give God all of myself and then feeling rejected and turned down. I didn't know how to give him anymore. So I cried, and pleaded, and begged.

All the while those around me said, "Look at the power of God on him" or "look at the joy on his face". I didn't have joy. I had confusion and anxiety and fear. I was talking to a person who has known me for many years and he mentioned that I was turning my back on the Holy Ghost. I asked him how he could say that and he said because he had seen me speak in tongues and knew that I got the Holy Ghost. Now, if I fooled myself and everyone around me into thinking that I wonder how many others are out there who would attest to never speaking in tongues.

I know that there is one guy who used to be on this forum that has had an experience very close to mine and his dad was a professor at one of the largest UPC colleges. He claims that he never spoke in tongues either.

Am I really the only person who will admit this? I had talked to some of my close friends and they will confirm that they felt the same thing. I asked if they would allow their kids to participate in a pentecostal alter service and I have been met with agreement that they don't view it as healthy.

I am not sure how I am broadbrushing the movement. I am not just talking about the UPC but I know the same thing happens in the AOG and Church of God. Most of my bad experiences didn't happen in my home church. It happened at the Mississippi District UPC youth camp where there were big time evangelist and many churches represented. I know I was not the only one there who went through these things.

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UPC blah blah UPC blah blah..no nobody is hung up on the UPC. They've all moved on haven't they?:girlytantrum

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So why not blame the enemy who is the one behind the spirit of rejection you felt?

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Do I really sound that bad? Are my questions not legitimate? I am not bashing or hating. I am just wondering if there are any who feel the need to protect their children from this type of environment.

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I would think God is stronger than satan. Why didn't it affect anyone else? I mean I was a good kid, followed all the rules, lived a holy life way better than any of the other heathens that God blessed with the baptism. It just didn't seem right.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Heathens? Wow. I find that very offensive. Walking away from this thread. Never thought I'd see the day when Pentecostal people wanted to protect their kids from the Holy Ghost. I'll say again, WHEN TAUGHT PROPERLY, it SHOULD be a beautiful experience. However, just like most things, we will explain our way out of this too...and then when our kids end up in a place where they REALLY need God, they won't know how to seek Him. SMH!!!

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Without readying hardly any other post I will say that fear was definitely an initial motivator for me to seek out God. Receiving the HG was a wonderful experience and was one of the most peaceful moments of my life. Soon after fear became the big motivator again -fear of not attending enough church. Fear of disobeying or criticizing the "man of God". Fear of not being perfect and being lost to eternal torment because of the dumb luck of dying after the most minor sin is committed but before repenting of it.

Thankfully God gave me His spirit whilst standing by our seats during song service. Had I relied on the normal gangsta-prayer circle to "help" I would have most likely resisted, at which point many of them would have gone into full force mode and literally wrestled me to the front in order to cast out the demon that was obviously causing me to avoid the alter.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Ok, well maybe I am just so far from apostolics/UPC folks anymore that I can't really relate.

I have heard this all before, "when it is taught properly". They used to have altar worker practice and class. I agree that some churches make it less painful.

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

I would have to agree with this. And I think many are as you, been away too long. Did it used to be this way ? Sure, I remember some this way. But its been a long time ago. The UPC and most others have moved on from this. (As I say this, there is a new WPF church down the street that will beat the Holy Ghost into you if your willing to sit there long enough. And if you don't hold to the standards then your simply out of the will of God.)
However, I believe this is a common problem as time moves on, most have been away from it for so long they believe its still the same as it was and it's simply not true for the most part. You said it right when you stated; "They USED to have alter worker classes. "

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Yeah, I heard you go to a liberal church. You need to get back to that old time religion. J/K

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Wow. Totally amazing.

Theres alot I could say but suffice it to say that every "kid" should be allowed to experience the same thing I experienced as a "kid". That being...the miraculous infilling of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.

To think that my parents preferred that I remain Catholic and continue down the road of drinking and drugs (among other things) like my good Catholic classmates.

Thank God He got ahold of my life before damages were done! All those wonderful apostolics yelling in my ear and laying hands on me were a blessing compared to what things my classmates were leading me into.

33 years later, I still enjoy the experience and enjoy sharing it with others. Especially with kids just like myself many years ago. :thumbsup

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Interesting ladyrev.

As asidenote perhaps I'll start a new thread. I know Catholics and Lutherans and some other churches embrace alcohol consumption more than most Pentecostals... I am curious whether there are more or less alcoholics in each church. I have no real hard evidence, but I tend to think churches who preach against alcohol may have a greater propensity to crawl inside the bottle when members do indulge. I think this is true on a greater societal level too.

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That could be a great thread!

Re: Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?
 

Yes, children should be allowed to seek the Holy Ghost.
Jesus said let the little children come unto me.
I've seen many children filled and none seemed terrorized
or scared.
God is working greatly in our church with the small children.
Truly amazing to see how they pray so sincerely at the altars.
I think God is well pleased.
Thank You Jesus.

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We just had 43 little kids receive the Holy Ghost at our kid's camp for our church campuses. These kids were all ages 6-11, and they spoke in tongues, and were gloriously baptized in His Spirit. What in the world could be wrong with teaching kids about the Holy Ghost and encouraging them to receive it? Our kids are taught to pray in the Spirit daily, and it becomes a natural part of their life - not some weird one time experience at an altar.

We left UPC 20 years ago, but I don't ever want to walk away from the Holy Ghost experience.

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Well, I am not saying it was all bad. I do remember some good times praying and seeking God. I still pray and seek God, just in a different way now.

I would rather kids be in a church like yours that shows them grace and love and I know God works in all groups of people so I am not trying to put down the work of anyone else. Sherri, I also think that you guys don't teach that you will go to Hell if you haven't been baptized with the Holy Ghost. That makes it so much harder on a child and can be very traumatic when you can't receive the spirit.

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Hmm, I had an uncle that thought just like you. Had never received the Holy Ghost with evidence in speaking in tongues. He sought it for years.

He only got it when he truly became humble in repentance. Not seeking after "The Gift", but in total humiliation, submitted himself to God.

You (and by that I do not mean specifically you) can be seeking salvation out of fear of not being saved, but that is not the state that Christ will enter. He seeks those that are truly humbling themselves in repentance that he will come in.

I think that is what ever one is trying to say (just beating around the bush).

Repent. Baptize. Receive. A lot of people truly have issues with the first!

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Well, I will absolutely agree that I wasn't saved because I never did truly repent and have faith in christ. When God did finally save me I didn't speak in tongues though.

I am remembering back. Friends of mine would get drunk in the spirit and speak in tongues for hours and all that. Guess what, I have no idea or proof that it was God because they never changed. Their hearts were hard and as soon as they stopped speaking in tongues they were the same old people they had always been. To this day they can go down to an altar, pray through, and speak in tongues and be back out doing all their sinning and nothing ever changes.

So are you telling me that these people are truly repentant? It just doesn't line up. Why would God fill somebody that he knew would turn their back on him the minute they got away from the altar?

Don't get me wrong. I wanted the Holy Ghost more than anybody you know. I wanted that feeling and I got real close and it always left me unsatisfied. Sure, I don't think I ever spoke in tongues but everybody around me thought I did. But I could hear myself. I know what it sounds like.

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fear and the gifts from God never mix.god moves fear away from his precence.
satan is the one who places fear in you to confuse you.
i attend the pentecost church of God and have never been forsed to receive anything. before I started to attend that church in the past the were old time pentecost also. However, god matured the church to grow up.
All gifts from God to you are good and he gives them out when you are ready.

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I was never individually coerced to get the Holy Ghost but I do believe the UPC culture is coercive in that regard. I was 10 when I first spoke in tongues, it was my choice to seek it, but it was for all the wrong reasons. I did not want my children to feel the same way and that was a motivating factor in my leaving the UPC.

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Coming here makes me feel as though I must be insane.

Is this really worth a thread? Seriously? Have we really gotten to a point where we believe there are possibly more oneness pentecostals and holiness folks drinking then catholics and lutherans? When I was in the world I don't remember any Apostolics smoking weed with us and drinking, and fornicating, most of my friends were catholics, baptists, African Methodist Episcopal, or non-religious and didn't really know what they were. When I left the world, I left alcohol, drugs, fornication, etc. Maybe I'm the only one who did that?

Lord...

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You're right - we teach that it's a precious gift for everyone. It can be presented in a wrong light, and that's how it was presented to me as a kid. I sought for the Holy Ghost for seven years, and was terrified every night, because I had not spoken in tongues and was afraid I would go to hell. That is NOT healthy. We don't believe that it's a requirement for heaven to speak in tongues, but we do believe that when you are baptized in the Holy Ghost, you WILL speak in tongues.

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You didn't just ask a question, if you even asked one, you made and have made statements. Yes dude, we get it. You are glad you left the UPC. Hello? You sound like a broken record :blah

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I will never forget when my mother told me about these crazy ppl who spoke in tongues and fell on the floor. I coudln't have been more than 9 or 10 but it got my attention. I was a kid that loved God. When i was 13 i was filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. My mom had fallen into the trap of the new age/ occult movement and i had just fallen deeper in love with God. I had never been to a Pentecostal church of any kind and had never heard anyone speak in tongues (unless maybe on television). Mark 16:17-8 was the scripture that really dealt with me as a child. I was walking my dog one evening and had gotten so hungry for God and to speak in tongues. So i asked him...if it's real i want it. God filled me with the Holy Ghost in an awesome way and i was changed from that point on. It took me quite a long time to realize that tongues was the enitial evidence of the Holy Ghost...not through anyone else's teaching, just the Word of God. And quite a longer time for me to work up the nerve to tell anyone i had spoken in tongues. Delta, I pray that your children are filled with the Holy Ghost. God is not limited to the Pentecostal church and if they will open themselved to the Word of God they may very well be filled with the Holy Ghost and speak with tongues without anyone but Jesus telling them they need it. The case was with my situation, what my mother was trying so hard to keep me from was exactly what God led me to. God is faithful!