are we constantly struggling?
 

Are we constantly struggling not to sin? Or is there real victory?

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

You? Yes. Me? Not so much. :happydance


Just kidding. I think the answer depends on your particular phase in life. Sometimes more than others. One thing is constant. When you think you stand beware lest you fall... We must stay humble.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

when i was young and single it was a constant struggle, but now that I'm older and single there is an occasional struggle. nothing serious.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

This thread reminds me... I need to go hat shopping today.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

1) Yes
2) Yes

Does "yes" for #2 mean #1 won't happen? IMO, no. We can get "the victory" and still struggle. As we've probably all heard before, when we fall, fall forward. Not backward. Get up, dust our knees off, and keep going forward. Our struggle(s) will end once we've been called to the other side, where the ultimate victory awaits...

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

until the day you die there will always be a struggle with the Spirit and the flesh.
doesnt mean you will give into sin,but there will always be temptation around every corner so to speak

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

Depends on how you define victory houston.

If "victory" is based on your own works and behaviors the answer is yes, you'll always struggle with sin and the condemnation that comes along with it until your death, and then you’ll realize you were never meant to live your life that way.

------

However, if your "victory" is defined by Christ's finished work on the cross on your behalf, you have total victory right now.

If you're saved, God chose you from before the foundations of the world to experience His salvation.

If Christ's righteous life and His death on the cross served as your atonement, the Law has been fulfilled by Christ on your behalf. You own the Law nothing. It's fulfilled for you. The book is closed.

If Christ was your propitiation, meaning He willingly took all the wrath of God for your sin (past, present, and future), God’s wrath and anger against your sin has already been satisfied. Now, God doesn’t address your sin with wrath, but rather corrective chastening. Therefore even when facing God’s chastening you can rejoice in that you can know objectively that He loves you because of the cross.

If you’ve experienced regeneration through the power of the indwelling Holy Ghost, you are now one with Christ, spiritually ONE with Him. Your once dead and lifeless human spirit is now infused with Christ’s own Spirit. Through the Holy Spirit you are a partaker in Christ’s divine nature. That means you’re a creature with two natures. One is a sinful nature that is part of the fallen flesh you have with all its impulses and psychological conditioning. The other is a sinless nature that hates the sinful nature and the things you do when it rises to power. By walking in the Spirit you can escape the sense of condemnation and shame you would ordinarily feel, knowing that you are the righteousness of God in Christ based on Christ’s work…not your own. Throughout life you’ll experience an ebb and flow of victory over the flesh until that glorious day when you will lay down your mortality like a cocoon and come forth pure and holy, glorified, and the treasure that has been hidden in your earthen vessel will shine forth as the stars. The very hatred you’ll have developed in your lifetime of struggling with sin will have strengthened and ingrained in you a love for holiness that will last for an eternity. Now you can life UNHINDERED in your oneness with Christ Jesus, sinless forevermore. Therefore, every battle you face is a sure victory with regards to your eternity. God doesn’t see you as what you are…He sees you as what you will be in Him. And you are His workmanship, not your own. It’s a life of surrendered life and identity.

If you’ve been justified by faith you are robed with a holiness that isn’t your own because Christ took upon Himself your sin, sin that wasn’t His own. It’s a total exchange. You now stand before God as though you’ve never sinned and never will. When the Father sees you…He sees Christ Jesus. Your very identity is hidden in Christ.

If you’ve been adopted, you are now a beloved son of God no matter where you go or what you do. You never surprise God or catch His grace and power off guard.

You now have the privilege of surrendering your identity, allowing Christ to live through you day by day. This process is a daily work of sanctification (becoming more like Christ). It has nothing to do with being a good Christian, or holding religious standards that make you a good Pentecostal, Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, or Lutheran. You are not to be conformed into the image of the religions of this world…but rather you are to be conformed into the very image of Jesus Christ. And when you pass into glory, your sanctification will be complete and you will be “like Him”.

If you believe in God’s power as God…you know He will not put more on you than you can bare. You know that God has already ordered your steps. You can trust that no matter how dark the night, no matter how far you’ve fallen, no matter what mistakes you’ve made…through Christ, God will keep you and you will persevere over Hell, sin, flesh, and the world. You were chosen in Christ before the foundations of the world and you will be what God made you to be, a saint…even when you “aint”. NOTHING can pluck you from His hands. Grace isn't some greasy gift that can slip through your fingers. It's not something God gave you to keep, because He already knows you'd drop it and shatter it. You must realize... ou will not, and CANNOT, fall away like those who were never truly of us and only tasted of the heavenly gifts. But you can have blessed ASSURANCE that you are your beloveds, and your beloved is yours.

If you now know this, even sickness and death work towards your ultimate victory. It serves a purifying trial wherein you will feel compelled to be like Christ, and then see the heavens opened before you, the angels singing, and all glory being shown upon you. Now death has no sting, nor the grave any victory. You are triumphant.

And upon your glorification, as said above, you will be sinless for all eternity like Christ. His work having secured this for you, not your own. This life serving as a blessed furnace trying you that you might come forth as pure gold.

Your victory isn’t in your self. It isn’t in your works. It isn’t in your efforts. It isn’t in your religious standards, practices, or traditions. Your victory isn’t in modifying your behaviors. Your victory is in your being identified with Christ and Christ alone.

If this is understood and you have Christ…you have victory no matter what. Jesus is your…everything. Salvation isn’t an equation (Jesus + works = Salvation). No, Jesus is your EVERYTHING. That means it’s simply (Jesus – you =Salvation).

Now, take up your cross and die with Christ. Be crucified with Him so that you might live, not you, but Christ who lives in you. Reckon these truths to be so by faith, accept them, embrace them, appropriate them, and watch them become a powerful reality in your spiritual journey. Reckon yourself “dead” to the law. Dead to sin. Yet alive in Christ, victorious over death and the grave. When Jesus died on the cross… that was your punishment for your sins (past, present, future). When He rose again, that was you…risen and secured in glory.

What a glorious Gospel that disarms all the powers of Hell. Satan wants to keep your eyes on your works so that you never experience the victory that is only found in Christ. The truth is you will NEVER be good enough. God requires absolute holiness. You have to be as holy as God to please God. But if you’ve already sinned just once…you are fallen an infinity from that holiness, never capable of gaining ground by your efforts. No. Now such holiness must be freely given to you, imparted to you, so that you stand robed in the Holiness of Jesus. A perfect, sinless, holiness you cannot and will NEVER earn.

Give God praise and glory.

Now…do you have the victory or what? ;)

We have a famine of biblical doctrinal truths in the land. Most don't even know them. All they know is "works" and a hope that somehow God overlooks their hidden sins and accepts their good deeds. Salvation is so much greater than that lie. In short foundational doctrinal truths that have been forgotten are:

1. Election (God's choice of people to be saved)
2. Atonement (Christ's work of satisfying the law for the Elect)
3. Propitiation (Christ's satisfying God's wrath against the sins of the Elect - past, present, future)
4. The Gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)
5. Regeneration (being born again)
6. Conversion (faith and repentance)
7. Justification (right legal standing)
8. Adoption (membership in God's family)
9. Sanctification (right conduct in life)
10. Perseverance (remaining a Christian)
11. Death (going to be with the Lord)
12. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body in sinless perfection)

Surrender and die... allow God to make you His masterpiece from start to finish.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

Define "struggle"...I prefer to walk by faith and keep my eyes on Him. And if I sin, I prefer to keep trusting in Him

We should, however, fight the good fight of faith and live as we are saved and sanctified.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

:thumbsup

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

:thumbsup

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

If you're hidden in Chirst... it's... "Hey Satan, now you see me... now you don't!"

:shockamoo

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

However, if your "victory" is defined by Christ's finished work on the cross on your behalf, you have total victory right now.


I like that Auquila. If this thing is performance-based then we fail. And the ones who think they don't are failing the worst.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

:highfive

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

We are God' secret weapons against Hell. We're INDESTRUCTIBLE.

Here's a little message for Satan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IIZ4NbDlso

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Cower... Satan... like the foul defeated insolent foe you are!

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

I tend to aviod the word struggle as it makes me think of the notion we need to be perfectly sinless in order to be saved

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

Your statement above implies that one can have some measure of sin and be saved. I'm going to play a word game here Prax, love ya bro....

We DO have to be sinless in order to be saved. The question is... whose sinlessness must we have? Our own...or Christ's? ;)

:happydance

In Christ.... I am sinless. I am the "righteousness of God".

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus took and became MY sin... so that I could take and become HIS righteousness.

A complete and perfect exchange. In HIM... I am sinless!!!

:shockamoo

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

The point was, WE still sin and I refer to those that believe WE are not saved unless WE never ever eve commit a sin of our own doing

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

God ALWAYS gives us the victory and causes us to triumph. You may have to struggle but there is VICTORY!

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

Oh, I understood ya bro. I was just making an illustration so as to be sure no one misunderstood the implications of your statement. You're all good.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

I had a study on the difference between behavior and nature. It was awesome. For example, a human being can roll around in mess like a dog...but they are still a human being by nature. Eventually that human nature will drive them to shower and get cleaned up. lol

God changed our nature. It is IMPOSSIBLE for us to live in continued sin...

1 John 3:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The AMP and NLT put it this way...

1 John 3:8-10
Amplified Bible (AMP)
8[But] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].
9No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [a]habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.
10By this it is made clear who take their nature from God and are His children and who take their nature from the devil and are his children: no one who does not practice righteousness [who does not conform to God's will in purpose, thought, and action] is of God; neither is anyone who does not love his brother (his fellow [b]believer in Christ).

1 John 3:8-10
New Living Translation (NLT)
8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life[a] is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers[b] does not belong to God.

Gotta love it!!!

Thank God for a new nature! You can act like a sinner and roll around in mess... but you're a sinless saint by nature. That indwelling Spirit will convict you until you're driving by God's own power to get cleaned up. You can rest in that.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

Complete victory is not only possible, but it is promised in the Bible.

"All things new" does not leave any room for doubt.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

Let me be clearer, if necessary.

There is nothing in the life of a sinner that GOD cannot deliver that sinner from.

We seek GOD and we will reap the benefits of a close relationship with our Father.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

Cool, thanks

Thanks for the replies. I had nothing personal in mind. I was thinking of a statement that a friend made 3 yrs ago. He said that he is constantly fighting against lust. I just think sometimes, why do some people get full victory while others constantly battle with the sins that they were delivered from?? I am not sure I accept that God would leave His children in a limbo. I think that His children tend to live below their means, suffering from a spiritual inferiority complex. Just my scattered thoughts.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

Where is the victory found?

This is an important question because some people believe it is by trying harder, more self discipline, or some magical empowerment accompanied by goosebumps that causes them to live victoriously.

I know where the victory is found. It's found in Christ Jesus. Through "faith" we have the victory by reckoning and applying those truths associated with our salvation and identity in Christ.

I have a fallen nature that often causes me to stumble and sin. I have carnal thinking that I might relapse into and therefore stumble and sin. But here's the good news... I'm not the one sinning. Why? Because my human spirit is regenerated via it's union with the Holy Spirit. I, the real me, desires absolute holiness that isn't possible through this flesh that I currently have. So I often stumble and fall in my flesh... but not in my spirit. It is no longer I who sins... but sin that is within me (the sinful principle behind the fallen nature). After the flesh I find myself obeying the law of sin... but in my spirit the law of Christ. This brings a sense of condemnation to me and I begin to hate my flesh, I begin to hate my human identity. How shall I overcome this condemnation?... through the Spirit. If I walk in the Spirit (associating my identity in Christ via the Spirit and appropriating it's reality to myself) I descover I have no condemnation. I can look at the thing I did, hate it, confess it, and walk away feeling absolutely NO condemnation.

So my flesh still sins... but my spirit doesnt. In one sense struggle with sin... in another I am one with Christ and partake in His sinless divine nature. My struggle isn't necessarily with my behaviors. My struggle is with my faith in who I am in Christ according to Scripture. When I fall my carnal mind wants to take that identity upon itself and thereby I begin to identify myself with what I did instead of who I am in Christ Jesus. So the struggle is to keep "faith" (the act of reckoning something unseen as being so) in who God says I am.... I am the very "righteousness of God"... pure... sinless... holy... in Christ Jesus. That is the struggle. Not "behavior modification"... but "identity realization".

When I hear people talk about "struggling" with sin... I typically look at them and say, "Your problem is that you don't even know who you are in Christ." You are walking in this condemnation and allowing Satan to convince you to identity yourself with that sinful nature that you still have. But if you have the Holy Ghost, THAT is your inner identity. That is the REAL you. The fact that you feel a sense of condemnation and feel as though you have to struggle is evidence of this inner divine nature imparted by the very presence of the Spirit. If you weren't a partaker in His divine nature... your sin wouldn't bother you. It only bothers you because your behaviors aren't in alignment with your new and real identity in Christ.

It's funny really. Behavior modification doesn't work. Disciplines don't work long term either (as anyone who has been on a diet). But identity does work. I'll explain.... if you tell a person they are a no good, low down, brainless nothing for years... and they believe you. What will happen? That is what they become. We see this in abused children all the time. Some of us bare the scars and wounds of hurtful and/or abusive words from a frustrated parent or angry spouse. Satan uses this tactic too. Satan tells you that you're a vile, sinful, abominable, creature fallen from God's finger tips and that God doesn't love you and will only love you if you achieve perfection in your behaviors. The more you fail... the more Satan starts telling you that you are just unable to do it. You might as well give up. You are not a real Christian. You're a fake. A phony. A failure. If we believe these lies... we will act them out being what we think we are and perhaps give up on being a Christian. Or... we will begin performing religiously when around our church friends... but in private, when no one is looking, we act out through that defeated identity we've accepted. A hypocrite is then born.

We've also seen children or people who are bathed in encouragement, love, and acceptance and watched them flurish into beautiful and successful human beings. This is part of the reason why God gave us His Word. In God's Word He tells us who we are "in Christ". God is like the loving parent who has taken us, those who have been abused by Satan's lies, and is encouraging, affirming, and showing unconditional love. When we feel defeated...God is saying, "You're already victorious in Christ." When we feel like we are sinners bound for Hell because of something we did or just don't seem to be able to break free from... God is saying, "You are the righteousness of God in Christ." When we feel like giving up and accepting the lies of Satan and just declaring him the winner... God says, "You are more than conquerors in Christ." When we get into the rut of measuring who we are by our behavior as compared to some religious law and discover we simply can't do it.... God is saying, "After the inward man you are righteous, pure, and Holy." When Satan tells us we are not Holy... God tells us, "You are justified through faith in Christ and my holiness is a gift that has covered your inabilities. In my sight, you're sinless."

What a loving Father! Whose report are we to believe? If we believe Satan's we will struggle until there is little joy in our Christian lives and we become legalistic religionists. If we believe Satan's lies we will struggle until we just... give up. But if we believe what God Himself says about our idenity and reckon it so, appropriating it by faith, though we do not see how it can be a reality, we can take a deep breath... we're secure by who we are in Christ... not by who we are in ourselves.

What do you believe about yourself?

Do you believe what you see in your behaviors and failures and allow that to dictate your identity?

Do you believe Satan's lies concerning your behaviors and failures and allow those lies to dictate your identity?

Or do you believe what God's Word says about you IN SPITE of your behaviors and failures and allow God's Word to dictate your identity?

As a man thinketh... so is he. Do you believe you are a fallen creature in a constant struggle with sin? Or do you believe you are a sinless, holy, new creature that is partaking in Christ's nature who simply still exists in a fallen vessel we call "flesh"?

Who are you? This is the REAL struggle...believing who God says you are. Once you believe that you are what God says you are... watch as your behaviors start aligning with your identity.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

I'd say it a little differently, but I agree. I'd say,

There is nothing in the life of a sinner that GOD HAS NOT ALREADY DELIVERED that sinner from.

Re: are we constantly struggling?
 

If he is greatly troubled spiritually about this... he isn't lusting. He is experiencing his "flesh" lusting and is allowing it to take him where he doesn't want to go. It's like an auto-pilot that is constantly on (sin nature). His spirit is obviously not in agreement with his flesh, so after the inward man he is obedient to the law of Christ against lust. Therefore He should reckon his identity as being that of the inward man (walk after the Spirit). Now this will shake the condemnation. He must begin to reckon his identity as being so solidly in Christ... he looses himself in Jesus and stand in faith in that until only Christ remains. He IS one with Christ. You see Christ is in the Father, the Father is in Christ... and Christ is in us. He has to tap into the reality of that "oneness" with Christ. Then by just being himself, the the inner man who is alive in Christ, he can begin curbing those behaviors and desires. But he need not walk around feeling defeated. He's already victorious over lust through Christ Jesus.