C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Spirit
 

~Charles Haddon Spurgeon,
June 12, 1864, at The Metropolitan Tabernacle, London
(italics mine)

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Amen

Amen.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Amen!!!

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

now, you know that some here may say that a cigar-smoking Baptist preacher like Spurgeon could not possibly have the Holy Spirit indwelling him.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:15-18

Jesus was trying to teach His disciples that He would no longer be with them as the Son but would instead be in them as the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Advocate/Helper/Friend/Counselor/Standby/Strengthener/Paraclete/One called alongside to help.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

If those who believe there is only one work of grace would open their minds and realize that there are many works of Jesus' grace in mankind. If they would only realize this then would they receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and the evidences that follow.
But they think they have it simply by believing. Maybe that's why when pentecostal and those who have had the same experiences when they are together they are always talking about Jesus, verses, those who when they are together are always surrounding their conversations with the things of the world. Not to say they are not saved, only to say they are walking below their privilege in Jesus.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

I don't think he was talking about the same baptism of the Holy Ghost that pentecostals believe in.

He was also a Calvinist yet uses language that says that if WE would do something the HOLY SPIRIT would do something. Conditional language can be used by a calvinist.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

If you..... then I

is OK for Calvinists, Arminians, etc. to use, isn't it?

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Yes, of course.

Sometimes it is assumed that there is a fatalist mentality among calvinist because everything has been "preordained". The truth is that God commands us to seek after the gifts, be baptized in the Holy Spirit, send missionaries etc. and not to sit on our hands and say, "well if God wants it to be done then it will be done."

Conditional language is as biblical as using Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

How do you know he was a calvinist?

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

One of his famous quotes was that he didn't preach Calvinism as a system but as the gospel.

I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else”

SOURCE: From The Autobiography of Charles H. Spurgeon, Curts and Jennings, Cincinnati - Chicago - St. Louis, 1898, Vol. I., Page 172.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

I see. So, is calvinism in your opinion something to the effect; God chose who he would save and chose who he would not save sometime in the past?

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

The holy ghost comes not by speaking with tongues, rather when one repents of their past life without Christ, beleiving with all their heart in the work of the cross. Then the holy ghost comes into our hearts, whether one yeilds to the deeper anointing of God's spirit becomes the question.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

yeppers, when we ask Jesus to come in, He comes in as the Holy Spirit.
At least that's the way I understand Ephesians 1:13 which says:
"And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago."

Paul speaks to those folks who had been sealed with the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) and had been quickened or made alive or given God's life by the Spirit (Ephesians 2:1) later in his epistle and encouraged them to be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18).

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Considering the popularity of Methodism in England and then the U.S., I'd say its possible that Spurgeon knew of the Holy Ghost "speaking with the Spirit." Whether or not he spoke of it here is another matter. I believe its certainly possible that he experienced the baptism.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Oversimplified but yes. What you posted is not calvinism but the doctrine of election and predestination.

I believe that there is an elect chosen before the foundation of the world who were bought and paid for by the blood of Christ and given by the Father. All that were given by the Father WILL come to Christ by the power of holy spirit and persevere to the end and will be given a glorified body.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Doubt it. His beer drinking and smoking would probably keep most Methodist away. :) I have no doubt that he had the baptism of the holy ghost but maybe just a little different experience than yours though.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Methodist drink.. didn't you know that? Some smoke to.

Does the HOly Ghost smoke? Would Jesus have smoked? We can give our opinions. Did Jesus drink? Yes. Did Jesus get drunk. No.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

What you describe can also be known as foreknowledge in Arminianism.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Prevenient grace is divine grace which precedes human decision. It exists prior to and without reference to anything humans may have done. As humans are corrupted by the effects of sin, prevenient grace allows persons to engage their God-given free will to choose the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ or to reject that salvific offer. Whereas Augustine held that prevenient grace cannot be resisted, Wesleyan Arminians believe that it enables, but does not ensure, personal acceptance of the gift of salvation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevenient_grace

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

I referred to Foreknowledge, not Prevenient Grace.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Arminians say that God knew who would choose receive salvation, and then chose them on the basis of that knowledge. [Synergism]

Calvinists say that God "knew" someone in the biblical sense (i.e. loved them intimately), and then chose to regenerate their hearts without any basis in whether or not they would have chosen him. [Monergism]

There is a difference in how foreknowledge is defined.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshol...onergism2.html

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

and the Apostle Peter writes to first century saints and calls them "elect according to the foreknowledge of God" (1 Peter 1:2)

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

How does the bible define foreknowledge?

Here's an interesting note

For if God knows what I will do, it must be certain that I am going to do it. If it were not certain, God could not know it; He might be mistaken (I might act differently from what He expects). But if what I will do is certain, then surely I will do it, whether or not I know what I will do. It will happen!

http://www.icstc.com/bg/will/fore.html

another

Some Calvinists have tried to use this to argue that 'foreknow' necessarily implies a relationship, in that the other Jews 'knew' Paul as a friend before he was saved. But the passage can just as easily mean that they knew all about Paul. Not really proof for the monergsitic interpretation.


Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2)

Now this provides a bit better evidence. The word is not just 'foreknow,' but 'foreknowledge' (Greek: Prognosis). A major difficulty for the Calvinist view of election according to forelove instead of foreknowledge is that the Greek word for 'knowledge' (gnosis) is not used to indicate love, friendship, or special preference. The words that make up Prognosis are 'pro,' a primary preposition that is used as a suffix to mean 'before,' and 'gnosis,' which simply means 'knowledge' (intelligence, advanced understanding, wisdom, etc.). Prognosis even survives today in the English language, carrying an identical definition. So it is then rather a futile effort to attempt to re-interpret election according to the prognosis of God into election according to the forelove of God.

http://www.indeathorlife.org/soterio...word-usage.php

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Just have to get into the mix here, as none of it matters one way or another. When are we going to get it, God is God, he knows everything, of course he knows if you are going to go to heaven or not. That does not mean he predestend you!

Further why do we get hung up in the ideas of history today, those ideas do not count for a hill of beans. They may have worked for them then. That does not mean we don't have a better understanding of things today. What one beleives today may have some Calvins ideas that does not make him a calvinist. We are too quick to label others and then fellowship them or disfellowship them upon that label.

Just like PP or FP within the teachings there are many differances between each.

Bottom line salvation come by faith in the work of Christ on the cross, the depth of the move of the spirit depends upon the depth each individual takes thier salvation in relatinship with God.

Further God predestined all men to be saved. Whether we are saved or not has nothing to do with the forknowladge of God its all on you my friend, no matter what Calvin or any other taught in times past.

Carry on

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

The Christian Church celebrates Pentecost, some times called Whitsunday, in remembrance of the time 50 days after the Resurrection of Jesus when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the early church to launch them into the ministry of telling the story of Jesus to the whole world. This event is recorded in our New Testament Book of Acts in chapter 2 verses 1 through 47 and happened on a Sunday which would have probably been May 28, AD 30 if we reckon back using our current calendar. After Jesus rose from the dead there were over 500 believers who saw Him and believed in His resurrection according to the record of the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:6 which he wrote about 25 years after that original Pentecost recorded in Acts chapter 2. About 120 of those 500 believers were baptized in the Holy Spirit on that Pentecost Sunday in Jerusalem as recorded in Acts chapter 2.

There are many works accomplished by the Holy Spirit in the life of each child of God. His work begins in us early in life and He draws and calls us to Jesus; convicts us of our sin; gives us faith to believe in Jesus; grants us repentance; births us into the family of God; places us into the body of Christ; seals us unto the day of redemption; and then preserves and keeps us throughout the rest of our Christian life.

One experience spoken of in the New Testament is called a “baptism in the Spirit.” This was spoken of by John the Baptist as he introduced Jesus. He presented Jesus as the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29, salvation) and also as the One who would baptize people in the Holy Spirit (John 1:33, Holy Ghost Baptism). There are differences among Christians as to whether the salvation or born again experience is separate from a subsequent experience called the baptism in the Spirit or the filling of the Spirit or the empowering of the Spirit.

In my opinion they are two separate experiences. This is seen by the way Jesus gathered disciples around Himself who definitely were saved and serving Him but after His resurrection He commanded them to wait in Jerusalem until they were baptized in the Spirit (ref Acts 1:4-8). It is also seen in the experience of the Samaritans who were converted and baptized in water in the winter of AD 31/32 and then later baptized in the Spirit (Acts 8:5-17). This pattern was displayed in the experience of Saul of Tarsus who was converted on the road outside the city of Damascus on January 25, AD 32 but was not filled with the Spirit or baptized in the Spirit until 3 days later (Acts 9:1-19).

Below are the experiences of some great evangelists and Christian leaders of the past plus a word from Billy Graham about the Baptism of the Spirit.
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Charles G. Finney (Evangelist and Teacher 1792 - 1875)
I was powerfully converted on a morning of the month of October, 1822. In the evening of the same day I received overwhelming baptisms of the Holy Ghost, that went through me, as it seemed to me, body and soul. I immediately found myself endued with such power from on high that a few words dropped here and there to individuals were the means of their immediate conversion. My words seemed to fasten like barbed arrows in the souls of men. They cut like a sword. They broke the heart like a hammer. Multitudes can attest to this. Oftentimes a word dropped without my remembering it would fasten conviction, and often result in almost immediate conversion. Sometimes I would find myself, in a great measure, empty of this power. I would go and visit, and find that I made no saving impression. I would exhort and pray, with the same result. I would then set apart a day for private fasting and prayer, fearing that this power had departed from me, and would inquire anxiously after the reason of this apparent emptiness. After humbling myself, and crying out for help, the power would return upon me with all its freshness. This has been the experience of my life.
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Dwight Lyman Moody (Evangelist and Author (1837 - 1899)
D.L. Moody was a successful minister but by his own admission later, he lacked the power in his ministry. One day two women came up to him after a service. They said,
"We have been praying for you."
"Why don't you pray for the people?" he asked.
"Because you need the power of the Spirit," they said.
"I need the power! Why," said Mr. Moody, in relating the incident years after, "I thought I had power. I had the largest congregations in Chicago, and there were many conversions.”

Moody also said that in a sense, he was satisfied. He was in a comfort zone. But these two praying women rocked the boat. They told him that they were praying for an anointing by the Holy Spirit for D.L. to have a special service to God. He could not get this off his mind and he said, “There came a great hunger in my soul. I did not know what it was and I began to cry out to God as never before. I felt I did not want to live if I could not have this power for service”.

After the great fire of Chicago, DL was working to raise money to rebuild a tabernacle. He said his heart was not into it because he kept crying out to God to fill him. He withdrew and prayed during a visit to New York to raise money and he cried that God would fill him with His Spirit. DL describes it this way:

“Well, one day, in the city of New York -- oh, what a day! -- I cannot describe it, I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name. Paul had an experience of which he never spoke for fourteen years. I can only say that God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. I went to preaching again. The sermons were not different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not now be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you should give me all the world -- it would be as the small dust of the balance.”
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Reuben Archer Torrey (Revivalist, Evangelist and Teacher 1856 - 1928)
R. A. Torrey gives his testimony:
The address of this afternoon, and the addresses of the days immediately to follow, are the outcome of an experience, and that experience was the outcome of a study of the Word of God. After I had been a Christian for some years, and after I had been in the ministry for some years, my attention was strongly attracted to certain phrases found in the Gospels and in the Acts of the Apostles, and in the Epistles, such as "baptized with the Holy Spirit," "filled with the Spirit," "the Holy Spirit fell upon them," "the gift of the Holy Spirit," "endued with power from on high," and other closely allied phrases. As I studied these various phrases in their context, it became clear to me that they all stood for essentially the same experience; and it also became clear to me that God has provided for each child of His in this present dispensation that they should be thus "baptized with the Spirit," or, "filled with the Spirit."

As I studied the subject still further, I became convinced that they described an experience which I did not myself possess, and I went to work to secure for myself the experience thus described. I sought earnestly that I might "be baptized with the Holy Spirit." I went at it very ignorantly. I have often wondered if anyone ever went at it any more ignorantly than I did. But while I was ignorant, I was thoroughly sincere and in earnest, and God met me, as He always meets the sincere and earnest soul, no matter how ignorant he may be; and God gave me what I sought, I was "baptized with the Holy Spirit." And the result was a transformed Christian life and a transformed ministry.
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John R. Rice (Baptist evangelist, 1895 - 1980)
It is not wise to base a doctrine upon human experiences. For example, thousands of people have been converted to God, really saved, at mourners' benches. But that is not any reason for anybody to say that a mourners' bench is essential to salvation. Some people delight in their "experience," remembering that they felt a great ecstasy and shouted the praises of God when they were born again. But it would be foolish for us to thereby conclude that one cannot be saved without shouting the praises of God. It is never wise to make a doctrine out of our human experiences. Nevertheless, when the Bible clearly teaches a truth. it is refreshing and helpful to have human experiences testify to the truth of the Bible doctrine.

In that great book, The Holy Spirit: Who He Is, and What He Does, Dr. R. A. Torrey in chapter five gives three defining statements as to what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is. ...
1. In the first place, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a definite experience of which one may know whether he has received it or not ....
2. In the second place, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a work of the Holy Spirit distinct from and additional to His regenerating work ....
3. In the third place, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a work of the Holy Spirit always connected with and primarily for the purpose of testimony and service.
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This is from page 16 of the February 1962 issue of Voice Magazine published by the FGBMFI (Full Gospel Business Men’s Fellowship International). It is my understanding that it is from a message delivered before a group of ministers at Sacramento, CA.

Be Baptized With The Holy Spirit
by Billy Graham

We have learned much about the power of the Holy Spirit. You know, in the main denominations, we have looked a bit askance at our brethren from the Pentecostal churches because of their emphasis on the Holy Spirit.

I wonder if one of the secrets of Pentecostalism cannot be learned by our main stream churches by placing emphasis on the Holy Spirit. I am sure that my Pentecostal brethren that are here today would agree with me that there have been extremes and excesses that have embarrassed many of them at times, but I want to tell you I believe the time has come to give the Holy Spirit His rightful place in our preaching, in our teaching, and in our churches! We need to go back and study again what Paul meant when he said, "Be filled with the Spirit.” We need to learn once again what it means to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit. I know that we can rationalize, and immediately ten thousand theological questions arise and we try to figure it all out; but brethren, I want to tell you that we need to accept, we need to get something! Give it any terminology you want, but we do not have the same dynamic and the same power the Early Church had.

They had no Bibles, no seminaries nor Bible schools, no radios, no telephones, no printing presses, nothing! However, they turned the world upside down in one generation! What did they have? They had an experience with the living Christ! They had the filling of the Holy Spirit!

Look what we should be doing with our churches and seminaries, and all the other facilities that we have.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

I also agree!!!:highfive

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

C.S. Lewis referred to this attitude as "chronological snobbery."

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

I think you miss the whole point, of what I was trying to say. We toss back and forth the teachings of our forfather as if they had it all or were the authority on a subject. Looking at thier ideas and thoughts are ok as we need to understand where they came from. But to say because I believe somewhat like so and so therefor I am .... We need to look past many of the differances in the kingdom of God and quit labeling each other and ostrisizing one another.

As many of us use this and other forums to put forth our thoughts and ideas so we can test them against others thoughts and ideas, we should never get to the point where we start to name call one another.

Re: C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Sp
 

Part of the quote from you sight

{From seeing this, one passes to the realization that our own age is also "a period," and certainly has, like all periods, its own characteristic illusions. They are likeliest to lurk in those widespread assumptions which are so ingrained in the age that no one dares to attack or feels it necessary to defend them. ”}

The point is do we ever get to a point where we "have arrived"? Many groups teach the missconception that they have the "Whole Truth". This idea leads us into a false sence of security a Christian should never have. As we must always search scripture for deeper relationship with God. When we stop growing is when we become stagnant. Many Christians stopped growing right after they got saved, as they completed the steps of that particular denomination, and began to fill a church pew, never going on into heights of deeper relationship, rather letting the elder of that group feed them dry dog food in place to fresh word of God from the garden of life.

Hows that for a medifore?