Why I'm Against Perry
 

Here is a quote Pressing On posted.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Those are the very reasons I would want to vote for him! Certainly not a negative in any way.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Hoovie, how do you think 2 tim 2:4 applies to Perry?

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

4No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

5And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.


How does Obama contrast with this scripture?

Obama brought no business skill to the office
Obama brought no military skill to the office but is still allowing soldiers to be killed
Obama brought no faith which gives the slightest hint of praise for the creator referenced in the founding documents.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

coadie, I interpret the scripture to mean that no man that is christian entangleth himself in politics.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

couldn't that mean, don't be so caught up with the affairs of this life that you have no time to seek after God?

not everyone is called to be a full time preacher

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Ah, okay. So Christians should not hold political office?

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

i don't think true christians should be politicians, many beliefs would have to be comprimised. i think politicians can be christian, but it is not their main vocation. i think politicians are called to their office but not as christians.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Do we really want Christians to put aside their Christianity in any job, as you think politicians should? Do you put aside yours at work?

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

no Cindy because if they did and they were true Christians then SOMETHING might actually get done. :heeheehee

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

personally, and this is nothing against you, I think this theory is crazy. IF a true Christian is not to be a politician, and I believe many have felt this way, then we are supposed to let ourselves be governed by heathens or untrue Christians???? that is just, sorry, stupid.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Perry is great, he's got my vote!

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

It just means that when it comes to the matters of Lord Jesus, we must be single minded and all else must be a distant second.

I don't think it means politics in particular.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

1) Define "true christian."
2) Which beliefs would be "compromised?" Perhaps those that don't specifically align with yours? I'm sorry, but your convictions are not universal.
3) "...but not as christians." Please explain this statement. Surely you don't want politicians who have no spritiual foundation leading the country...

:coffee2

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

As you have said, you are expressing your own opinions here. The Scripture, however, is more open to various understandings on the subject of self defense and just war.

According to your take (and I admire your take even if I don't entirely agree with it!) Christians can NEVER be political leaders or rulers of any kind. Being a ruler means that one has to take up the sword at times to defend the innocent.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The politicians and other rulers are said to have been installed in office "of God." Technically, that would also apply to whatever office Gov. Perry holds. If he should run for President and be elected, you owe him your deference as as he's a "minister of God." (The same for President Obama, guys).

Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

The consequences for refusing to obey could be rather dire.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Paul is speaking in general terms here, obviously. Regimes like the Nazis, Stalin, Saddam Hussein and that ilk step across a line when they become a terror to those who are doing good.

However, the general principle remains. The "rulers" must have at their disposal a means of inflicting fear or "terror" in the hearts of the evil doers. That means is "the sword," or military violence.

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

If Gov. Perry (or really, whoever) is elected President, they are a MINISTER OF GOD and bear a sword as a consequence of their ministry.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

true christians are concerned about outreach, the poor, homeless, widow and orphans(like the democratic party). politicians would compromise thheir beleifs when they pass laws to support campaign contributors and not their true convictions. true politicians are about governing with all the dirty compromise involved and not concerned with religous conviction. imo

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Pel, I agree with you that politicians are called in their vocation, but how can a true christian who cares for spreading the gospel, the poor etc, be a politician who owes their allegiance to campaign contributors? wouldn't we see the kingdom of God on earth if politicians were true christians? what did we get with Bush? 2 unpaid wars, tax breaks for the rich, where were his christian values?

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

I am amazed at the gulible folks that fall for the politicans and media that talke about the rich tax breaks when they pay more taxes than anyone. And the ironic part to me is the politicans spouting about the rich are RICH themselves. How hypocritical is that?

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

as a percentage, they don't pay more taxes than anyone.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

I agree with you! :thumbsup

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Question for you... Do liberals or conservatives give more to the poor?

Repeated studies have shown conservatives give more across the board.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Wars, can and do save lives, the fact that they are unpaid does not mean they are unnecessary at times.

Do tax breaks "for the rich" result in less poverty and more jobs for the poor? There is a lot of evidence that suggests just that.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

conservative individuals may give more than liberals, but liberal governments do more for the poor than conservative ones. I think overrall, a liberal government can do more than conservative individuals.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

how many jobs did the Bush tax cuts create, which Obama continued? Can you post some stats? I think it's a conservative myth.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Bush twice cut the tax rates in his tenure. The tax revenue soared from 800 billion to 1.2 trillion.

Cutting taxes does increase revenue, while raising them will have a punitive effect on the business that create jobs.

Listen to this.
Start at the 3.30 mark

http://video.foxnews.com/v/109981415...ylist_id=87262

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

I would think that Joseph and Daniel would be examples of men serving in a heathen government, of which we have partially (LOL), and who maintained their integrity before God.

Entangled means to entwine. And I think verse 5 is very much the key and answer to verse 4 - "if a man also strives for the mastery (contends in a competitive game) he needs to strive lawfully (agreeably with the rules lined out)". Our Constituion is a grand set of rules. Couple that with the Word of God and you have a prized civil servant.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

I would humbly suggest that if we are going to use such a liberal interpretation of the passage, then anyone with a mortgage has entangled themselves as well....

in fact there is more bible against mortgages than there is about being involved in politics.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

I would further suggest that if we are going to go with the notion that we should not vote for christians running for high office, we should not vote either because it is equal to the passage quoted... if we are going to go with this as the meaning of the passage.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

President Bush ran an oil company in tough times. Harken.

Read Bush's book. It says some things your vulgar left wing daily Kos etc won't tell you.

His dad partnered with a friend of my grandad in starting Zapata drilling. RG Le Tourneau who built the rigs.

Lot of Obama's "business" pals in chicago are relocated and in jail.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

SHE'S ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:evilglee

Not sure if your timing is good to make a valiant return what with the things the way they are looking right now.

But we always enjoy your worthless banter. :blah

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

hey seascapes have you repented for your racists views on marriage?

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Regarding the "unpaid wars," why stop there? EVERYTHING we have or do as a nation is "unpaid." We haven't paid the bills since the Eisenhower administration and his Republican House & Senate.

And, his "tax breaks for the rich" included guys like you and me... pretty sweet to be "rich," isn't it?

... but, be that as it may...

The question of a Christian ruler is a hard one. It always has been a difficult subject. The New Testament was written at a time when the human writers all thought the world was about to end and that this particular question would simply never come up.

So, we have very little direct NT teaching on this and we must extrapolate from the rulers in the OT. We can also apply the NT teachings.

As far as "seeing the Kingdom of God on earth" ... why don't we see anything like that in the church where the "true Christians" are? ... oh yeah, I remember the answer.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Uh, dude!

I'll break it to you gently... "As a percentage" the wealthy pay an extraordinarily larger share of the taxes than "the poor."

The bottom 40% of wage earners pay not taxes at all.

The top 10% of earners pay 71% of all taxes.

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartb...income-earners

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

I really don't think DM has thought much of this through.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

Top earners are the target for new tax increases, but the U.S. tax system is already highly progressive. The top 1 percent of income earners paid 38 percent of all federal income taxes in 2008, while the bottom 50 percent paid only 3 percent. Forty-nine percent of U.S. households paid no federal income tax at all.

Now is that "fair"?

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

In a sense, no. It's not fair at all. However, those in the top brackets have traditionally accepted a greater burden as part of their sense of community and devotion to duty.

That's one thing that really grates me about Obama's class warfare. It completely ignores the self sacrifice and the very willing contributions of so may good American people. These guys could all move their money to Fiji like the Kennedy clan did years ago to avoid paying taxes on their Big Oil trust funds. Instead, they are a part of our communities and they shoulder a disproportionate load - willingly.

Sure, there are crooks like Bernie Madoff and that ilk. For whatever reason, like Madoff, these crooks tend to be big contributors to the DNC and other Liberal causes, but I won't bring that up here.

I say, let "the rich" keep more of their money. That way I have a better chance at some of it. If the rich guys in town are fat and loaded, then I can offer to sell them goods and services to help them further their ambitions. That means more money in the coffers of small businesses and "little guys" like me.

If the government takes their money, it will just sink into a black hole of corruption, inefficiency and waste. Much of it will be used to grease the palms of the supporters of those who favor the redistribution and it will eventually end up right in the campaign funds of the guys who created this mess to begin with so that we can do it all over again.

Re: Why I'm Against Perry
 

My niece posted this yesterday - "I think Rick Perry is gonna' win it all. He's such a character. Plus, he shot a coyote while jogging. Finally, someone made jogging cool."

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny