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ILG 05-14-2007 08:16 PM

Waters of Jealousy
 
I find this all rather interesting. What do you suppose this was about? What exactly were these 'waters'? The Bible encyclopodia I got this off of said "We have no record of this form of trial having been actually resorted to".



Quote:

Chapter 5
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:

3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.

4 And the children of Israel did so, and put them out without the camp: as the LORD spake unto Moses, so did the children of Israel.

5 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

6 Speak unto the children of Israel, When a man or woman shall commit any sin that men commit, to do a trespass against the LORD, and that person be guilty;

7 Then they shall confess their sin which they have done: and he shall recompense his trespass with the principal thereof, and add unto it the fifth part thereof, and give it unto him against whom he hath trespassed.

8 But if the man have no kinsman to recompense the trespass unto, let the trespass be recompensed unto the LORD, even to the priest; beside the ram of the atonement, whereby an atonement shall be made for him.

9 And every offering of all the holy things of the children of Israel, which they bring unto the priest, shall be his.

10 And every man's hallowed things shall be his: whatsoever any man giveth the priest, it shall be his.

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,

13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;

14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:

15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:

17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:

18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:

19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:

20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:

21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:

24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.

25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar:

26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.

27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;

30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.

31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

Coonskinner 05-14-2007 08:19 PM

To put the fear of God in those lustful women.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 113365)
To put the fear of God in those lustful women.

LOL! How was the fear of God put into the lustful men?

Anyway, what exactly were these waters? How did this work?

Coonskinner 05-14-2007 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 113368)
LOL! How was the fear of God put into the lustful men?

Anyway, what exactly were these waters? How did this work?

It worked because God was involved, just like baptism works. :)

Seriously, I was being just a tad facetious when I posted.

Scott Hutchinson 05-14-2007 08:22 PM

ILG give me a little bit of time and perhaps I'll find something out for you on this.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 113371)
It worked because God was involved, just like baptism works. :)

Seriously, I was being just a tad facetious when I posted.

I would like to hear some exposition on this.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 113372)
ILG give me a little bit of time and perhaps I'll find something out for you on this.

Thanks, Scott. I wonder if there were any random 'tests' for the men like this. Just curious. I wonder if there is some sort of scientific basis for this or if it was just a faith thing.

Scott Hutchinson 05-14-2007 08:26 PM

ILG what book of the Bible is this passage found ?

ILG 05-14-2007 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 113377)
ILG what book of the Bible is this passage found ?

Num. 5:12-31

Coonskinner 05-14-2007 08:29 PM

ILG, obviously it was an act of divine intervention if drinking dirty water would cause her belly to swell and her thigh to rot.

It was, to use a modern cliche', a God thing.

It had to be.

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:30 PM

This is one of those scriptures that makes no literal sense to me.

Where are the scriptures that cause the man who slept with her to have "thigh rot"?

To complicate matters more the man likely had three other wives....

ILG 05-14-2007 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 113383)
ILG, obviously it was an act of divine intervention if drinking dirty water would cause her belly to swell and her thigh to rot.

It was, to use a modern cliche', a God thing.

It had to be.

So, if I am reading this right, there is just some dust and barley in there?

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 113383)
ILG, obviously it was an act of divine intervention if drinking dirty water would cause her belly to swell and her thigh to rot.

It was, to use a modern cliche', a God thing.

It had to be.

Or just some potion that had a particular chemical reaction.

How about divining in the form of water witching... It works - don't ask me how...

Coonskinner 05-14-2007 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 113391)
So, if I am reading this right, there is just some dust and barley in there?

Like I said, it was an act of divine intervention.

Coonskinner 05-14-2007 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 113393)
Or just some potion that had a particular chemical reaction.

How about divining in the form of water witching... It works - don't ask me how...


I know it works.

People used to come get me when I was a kid because I could find water.

I quit after I got older, because I am not sure what the origination of that power is.

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 113391)
So, if I am reading this right, there is just some dust and barley in there?

Yeah, but don't drink it just yet, we need a witness. :killinme

ILG 05-14-2007 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 113394)
Like I said, it was an act of divine intervention.

I guess it had to be. The encyclopedia said that there is no place recorded where they tried this. If it was just some dirty water with a little barley that's a whole lot better than some stomach potion that nobody could stomach. :D

Scott Hutchinson 05-14-2007 08:34 PM

MY Nelson NKJV study Bible says that the dust of the floor of the tabernacle to a vessel of holy water and the scrapings from the bill of indictment were signs of a spiritual reality.Holy Water and Dust symbolized that God was the One who determined the innocence or guilt of the woman who had come before the priest.

Coonskinner 05-14-2007 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 113389)
This is one of those scriptures that makes no literal sense to me.

Where are the scriptures that cause the man who slept with her to have "thigh rot"?

To complicate matters more the man likely had three other wives....

"All these happened unto them for ensample..."

I suspect there was a type being laid out here.

Since God is represented by the masculine, the groom, the husband, and since God is never unfaithful, there was no point in a type of that nature in the law.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 113395)
I know it works.

People used to come get me when I was a kid because I could find water.

I quit after I got older, because I am not sure what the origination of that power is.

I think it's just a sensitivity to a gravitational pull.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 113396)
Yeah, but don't drink it just yet, we need a witness. :killinme

LOL! Well, my guts wouldn't rot out, I can guarantee you that. :thumbsup

Steve Epley 05-14-2007 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 113360)
I find this all rather interesting. What do you suppose this was about? What exactly were these 'waters'? The Bible encyclopodia I got this off of said "We have no record of this form of trial having been actually resorted to".

The dirt was from the floor of the tabernacle thus sanctified added to the water it was a test if she had been guilty judgment would have come upon her. Again we do find water accompanies the trying of mankind to test faithfulness. Religious folks who claim to be His Bride fail the water test. Earth placed into the water speaks of man from the earth yet sanctifed it went into the water God became earthy as Son and the Name of the Son goes into the water as a test. In the water test the birth was promised as passing the test. The water test determined the birth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 113401)
I think it's just a sensitivity to a gravitational pull.

believe me - it is much more complicated.

Scott Hutchinson 05-14-2007 08:37 PM

Your thigh rot and your belly swell are symbolic of a miscarriage of an illicit child if the woman was with child.
Hebraic thought comes into play here.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 113398)
MY Nelson NKJV study Bible says that the dust of the floor of the tabernacle to a vessel of holy water and the scrapings from the bill of indictment were signs of a spiritual reality.Holy Water and Dust symbolized that God was the One who determined the innocence or guilt of the woman who had come before the priest.

Okay. That makes more sense than throwing a woman who was thought to be a witch in the water and if she could swim she was guilty!:ursofunny

ILG 05-14-2007 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 113389)
This is one of those scriptures that makes no literal sense to me.

Where are the scriptures that cause the man who slept with her to have "thigh rot"?

To complicate matters more the man likely had three other wives....

Are you suggesting what it might mean?

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:38 PM

I'm gettin the hybee gebees... in this thread. I'm out!

Scott Hutchinson 05-14-2007 08:38 PM

See ILG if we read an eastern book with a western mindset we often miss alot.

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 113408)
Are you suggesting what it might mean?

Uh absolutely not. I am saying it's wierd.

The type and shadow thing.... I know... but it still had to be a real natural phenomenon to those who experienced it in the OT.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 113403)
The dirt was from the floor of the tabernacle thus sanctified added to the water it was a test if she had been guilty judgment would have come upon her. Again we do find water accompanies the trying of mankind to test faithfulness. Religious folks who claim to be His Bride fail the water test. Earth placed into the water speaks of man from the earth yet sanctifed it went into the water God became earthy as Son and the Name of the Son goes into the water as a test. In the water test the birth was promised as passing the test. The water test determined the birth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, let's leave behind the types and shadows for a bit and try and determine what it meant for the Israelite people, okay?

ILG 05-14-2007 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 113404)
believe me - it is much more complicated.

Please expound.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 113405)
Your thigh rot and your belly swell are symbolic of a miscarriage of an illicit child if the woman was with child.
Hebraic thought comes into play here.

A godly abortion?

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:42 PM

If this happened today, I would be the first to denounce it as a doctrine from WACO.

Scott Hutchinson 05-14-2007 08:42 PM

Infidelity is a third group of actions that brought defilement to the camp.
A wife was considered a possesion of her husband.Unfaithfulness was an offense agains't her husband.
Paternity is harder to establish than maternity.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 113409)
I'm gettin the hybee gebees... in this thread. I'm out!

Why?

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 113418)
Please expound.

I have actually done some unscientific testing to see if it is in relation to gravity. IMO it is not. You can pick up ANYTHING you wish to find even plastic.

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 113428)
Why?

It's the witching thing.

Coonskinner 05-14-2007 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 113404)
believe me - it is much more complicated.

Explain.

I know it runs in my mother's side of the family.

In every generation there would be one or two who could do it.

These were folks of Scotch-Irish descent, and there were a lot of other weird things that ran in the family too.

In my generation, I was the only grandchild who could do it.

ILG 05-14-2007 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 113425)
If this happened today, I would be the first to denounce it as a doctrine from WACO.

Yeah. That's what I thought when I read it earlier today. It kind of freaked me out. BUt then, if it's just dirty water and barley....that makes me feel a lot better than some poisonous concoction that a woman would need to be delivered from!

Hoovie 05-14-2007 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 113434)
Explain.

I know it runs in my mother's side of the family.

In every generation there would be one or two who could do it.

These were folks of Scotch-Irish descent, and there were a lot of other weird things that ran in the family too.

In my generation, I was the only grandchild who could do it.

I actually set out to prove it a hoax... and it blew my mind.

The more I tried to prove it wrong the more it appeared to work. I was finding underground 1" waterlines 5 feet under concrete (verfied)

and plastic gas lines - that were empty.


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