Visiting a UPC Church
 

Morning,
I live in Arkansas. I don’t actually attend a UPC church at this time.
I just resigned from pastoring a small group and now I’m wanting to return to a more Pentecostal Church. I’m pretty old timey Pentecostal, the group I had pastored was not a Pentecostal group.
I’ve been invited to visit a UPC church plant by a friend. They have a great youth program, and very active men’s fellowship and the church as a whole seems to like taking trips and dinners together.
I’m truly interested since I believe it would be great for my family, however, I know doctrinally it’s significantly different then what I have been used to.
However, I have changed some of my views significantly over the last 40 + years, so anything is possible.

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

What are the doctrinal differences?

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

The most significant would be the Trinity.

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

Bro. Harris,
You take water, freeze it, you got ice, boil it, you have steam. Still same water.

One God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) Three manifestations - still same GOD!

May God open your understanding, in Jesus Name. Let (allow, permit) HIM to
fill your mind with understanding.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Also the beginning of knowlege and understanding.

Falla39

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

Yeah, thats a big one.

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What part of arkansas ?

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I am in Arkansas at this present moment....wow...and I was raised in Arkansas....

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

Does doctrine matter to you at all or are you just wanting an experience?

I would recommend staying away from anything pentecostal but I am a former pentecostal so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

However, there are very nice people in the movement.
I am also from Arkansas.

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

My mom was born in Arkansas!
I know some good churches there, but none that are Trinity.

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doesnt hurt to go visit,

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Northwest Arkansas.

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That's the way I have always looked at God, pretty much. Maybe I'm not as far apart as I thought .

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Bro. Harris,
When I read your post, those words came to my mind. I believe the Holy Ghost
allowed me to say them as a simple example. Bless you, Brother Harris.

Falla39

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

That's a great analogy, however, don't forget that God is simultaneously "steam," "water" and "ice." That's something water can't do.

This also leads many to see a complexity within the nature of God that is not often summed up satisfactorily in many of the different creeds, belief statements and Articles of Faith.

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Ha, I have see int so cold in the mountains that there is Ice, floating on water, steaming!

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I don't know any good trinity churches either... Everyone one that I know of teach false doctrine 

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Good point 

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Have you ever seen a picture of God. Jesus was the best picture of God, ever seen. GOD was IN Christ. HE is IN us too if we have His Spirit dwelling (abiding,living) IN us.
You cannot see a spirit. No wonder GOD looks/sees inside. HE IS inside. No, Nicodemas, a man cannot get back inside his mother's womb after he has been born. Jesus, as man, could not get into everyone, but the Spirit inside him could. The baptism of water and Spirit are duel elements. They work together.
Not knowing just how much Bro. Patrick Harris understood, the water, ice and steam example came to me. Perhaps if he can understand this too. God (Spirit) in man (humanity). I fed my babies milk before I fed them meat!

Blessings,

Falla39

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

So we visited Sunday, I really liked it. The worship service was great and the preacher had a great message. It reminded me of some great COG services I had been in many years back.

Here's another reason that drew me in, these people are really a church family, they go on trips together, eat together, a lot of fellowship together outside of church.

Patrick

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

that is great that you enjoyed your visit, I hope you have found a church family, that is a precious thing.

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Actually, water can exist both as ice, liquid water, and steam simultaneously. This is called the TRIPLE POINT of water...

http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094...s/triplpt.html

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

Because of the "seperation" standards the UPC is a very closed culture and being such they do tend to have a lot of social activities together.

Been there, done that, got the T Shirt, and can't imagine going back. However if it floats your boat to have an extra biblical laundry list of rules enforced from the pulpit running your life go for it!

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CC1,

Perhaps Patrick Harris' perception of the church is not the same as yours. Why not wait and see how your grandchildren and great-grandchildren turn out after a generation or so of negative thoughts and comments about the UPC.

I know for a fact that many who have done the same thing, have reaped a sad harvest after listening to their parents negative comments and thoughts about their upbringing and the church they were raised in. Many of their own parents
are not living for God today. How will this affect future generations.

Our parents raised us up in the fear and admonition of the LORD. The UPC was not around when I was born. My late father, who was also our pastor for over 30 yrs, was licensed with the UPC. He told me, "While the UPC is not perfect,
it is the best I have seen, and I looked for a long time. Dad believed in weighing everything in the light of the Word of GOD! Not in an organization.

So I grew up not looking to an organization to be my guide, but to look to the Word of God as an Instruction book and the HOLY GHOST to be MY GUIDE! The UPC was an organization that was a good means of fellowship, etc.

I mean no offense, CC1, but I see a great danger in the critical spirit too many have today. They criticize too many things before their children, grandchildren, etc. Those who follow after us learn to criticize from those who have a Critical spirit. Too many today have critized and made fun of the way they were raised, in the home and in the church! I do not feel GOD is pleased! Can't help but wonder what pattern they are following and their precious children will follow.
Many times the critical spirit some have, is far worse than the very thing they are criticizing. I pray this will be received in the same spirit it is given!

Falla39

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

Having read some post on here, specifically those like Steve Epley, I wonder if I really saw a truly UPC church. I didn't realize how much animosity there was toward people who believed in the trinity.

Patrick

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

Your posting on an "I hate UPC" sounding board forum. You'll get used to it, maybe.

But your correct in your thinking. Just with any org there are some great churches and some not so great ones. But try to tell anyone here that your UPC church is a good one and you better have on more than the armour of God.

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Yep, some are bitter.

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Patrick,

By the same token, I could say the same thing about many that believe in the trinity. After over fifty years of seeing the animosity toward those who believe that "all the fulness of the Godhead is in Jesus" and those who baptize inJesus Name. I have had many friends, neighbors and acquaintances who would call me for prayer. They wanted me to pray and some even wanted to tell me WHAT to pray. But when it came to obedience to the Word of God pertaining to salvation, they wanted no part of it. They would pray for healing, and other things they desired, but when it came to baptism in the name of Jesus, they wanted no part of it. There is much more I could say but won't.

My late father planted a vineyard in the city we still live in. We have lived here since Sept 30th, 1950. We didn't come to our city as UPC. We came as apostolic (or Jesus Name) Pentecostals. We had previously attended a small town church that came into being, after my paternal and my maternal grandmothers, my mother and father, received the Holy Ghost in the early 1930's. JESUS had passed by, visiting that tiny town. HE came in the form of an old white-haired street preacher who came preaching on the street corner. Afterwards began an open-air revival behind the stores and later began a church plant. Jerusalem didn't know the day of their visitation, but thank God a few people in Savoy, Tx, heard, believed and obeyed the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank God through them, He came to me.

We have been in our city 61 yrs ago tomorrow, Sept. 30, 2011. I believe every town, hamlet, village and city will be visited by someone that was willing to carry HIM inside their vessel and tell the GOOD NEWS that HE IS ALIVE and WELL TODAY. HE dwells in the hearts of those who desire HIM to live there. No, God didn't allow His Son to be born in big proud Jerusalem, but HE did allow him to be born in a lowly stable in the tiny, humble town ofBethlehem. Although, in reality HE was their King, they didn't recognize Him because of the way He came to earth. A tiny package, gift wrapped, lying in a manager.

When we moved to our city (which was a very small town back in 1950), we were not popular with any of the churches in our community. Every church was trinitarian. We were oneness Pentecostal. Today, Dad and Mom are no longer with us in body, but because they allowed HIM to use them to bring HIM to this city, and lived and raised a large family, all eleven of us graduating from the local high school. We have lived here long enough to shut the mouths of the naysayers of Oneness Pentecostals in ____, TX. We love all people with the LOVE OF GOD shed abroad in our hearts by the HOLY GHOST!Patrick, seek the WILL of GOD and don't get your eyes on man. LOOK to JESUS, THE AUTHOR and THE FINISHER of our faith!!

Later my late father held license with the United Pentecostal Church and worked in fellowship with them. Dad felt their Foreign Missions plan to be a good one. In 1988, the church Dad founded received Recognition as #3 in worldwide per capti giving to Foreign Missions, UPC. He had become ill and was not able to attend General Conference to receive this award. His son received it in his place. The church Dad founded has never and is not in the org. per se. The present pastor is licensed with the United Pentecostal Church and we continue to work in fellowship.


Blessings,

Falla39

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

Yeah, if I were to summarize what was taught to me while I was in the UPC and what I preached while I ministered there it would be this:

"If you are not baptized by full immersion with "in the name of Jesus Christ for the remmission of sins" vocally uttered over you by the right authoritative minister you are going to hell.

If you never speak in tongues you are going to hell.

If you believe that Jesus is God but do not think he is his own Father or the Holy Spirit you are going to hell.

If you do all this and do not follow man-made standards you can still go to hell.

If you disagree with your pastor you could be in danger of hell-fire."

I have heard sermons on all this stuff. None of this can be legitimately supported from the scriptures. Ultimately the UPC as a whole teaches weak theology because it is unbiblical.

Because they come from the Pentecostal/Charismatic tradition the spirituality of the worship is usually the kind that you will experience in other Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. This is good until they start pounding their false doctrines from the pulpit.

I personally don't suggest the UPC for anybody. I hope this helps summarize the main beliefs of the organization.

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Livefortruth, If you are really only 20 yrs old, as your profile indicates, just
how long were you in the UPC and how long did you minister?

I can tell by many of your responses that you are not someone I would want
to follow as a mentor. Don't mean to be offensive but you do not have the
years, the experience or the wisdom to be advising others, in IMOP.

Falla39

Re: Visiting a UPC Church
 

I know that it has been a while since I was on this site, but I will post briefly.

My father said for many years that he was a member of the UPCI because there was nothing better. He was not thrilled with the idea of going independent, and was not thrilled with any of the other options. When he finally felt that something better had come, he left. We did not bad mouth, although we mourned.

We are still in contact with ministers who stayed, and we even have family that remained in the UPCI. It took some time. We have friends who are independent, friends in the UPCI, and friends in other organizations. We only wish for all to have the very best that God has for them.

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We do not have any animosity toward people who believe in the trinity but we do have animosity/hate for the false doctrine teaching of the trinity.

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Epley is NOT UPC

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Yeah, I figured that out.

I guess here's the real crux of the matter.
What I believe or don't believe about the trinity is not a hill I would die on.

I don't think that being Apostolic is heresy even though I lean toward believing in the trinity. I believe there is enough mystery about God that we don't know and that none of us may have the exact truth.

To me there are some foundational truths and the trinity is not one of those.

Thanks
Patrick

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Well, that is not what most of the trinity churches teach. They say if you don't believe in the trinity, u're in a cult and on your way to hell, so go figure...

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POD !!!! :thumbsup

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That is not my belief.

Which is probably why I never seem to fit in any denominational mold. The lady that invited me to the church was born and raised Apostolic, yet we have never had any serious disagreements over who is right.
Also, I’m dyed in the wool Pentecostal, but up until August, I pastored a Baptist church The people who asked me to take the position knew up-front that I was Pentecostal.

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When we left the org in the late 80's a few people left at the same time and quite a few friends (who stayed friends) remained with the church -at least for a while. Virtually all of them have left over the years. What irked me about the whole thing (then) were the large number of folks who were just brutal to the pastor on a personal level (and everyone else for that matter) who suddenly became "good UPC OP saints!" the day after we left and became the ones who would cross the street if they saw you coming in order to not have to expose themselves to a back sliding spirit -and make sure everyone saw them doing it! Now I look back and laugh, actually I was laughing then as well.
To make a long story short, we have friends all over the map as well and they are still friends. Unlike a few posters here, I do not know anyone personally who has condemned us to the fiery pit for not believing their distinct version of oneness. :)

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I was in UPC church for about 5 years. I read every book in the bible atleast three times and some of them 10 times my first year and the people in my church could tell because I was (still am) always speaking about the scriptures and praying non-stop. I also converted many people from the "other churches" to our congregation which they considered to be "spiritual fruit." I read all the material required for licensed ministry and became involved in publicly and privately debating for UPC doctrine with much fervency. Because of this they began giving me leadership responsibilities that included Sunday School teaching, preaching, meeting with people, leading songs, etc. I'm so glad the Lord brought me out of that movement early and that I didn't spend too much time believing the things that I was taught.

You can have your opinions based on your minimal amount of internet interaction with me but I assure you that you should actually get to know someone before making a personal judgement. Plus I think you might be biased. I doubt that you would receive advice or teaching from anybody who didn't believe you had to speak in tongues to be saved. Not to mention that if they don't believe Jesus is his own Father you couldn't really open up and let them teach you the Bible either. I'm just guessing though and don't want to assume (as you have) because we don't personally know each other ;)

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She didn't make a personal judgement. She asked you a question and stated her opinion based on information you have provided. Clarify your information for her or move on. But don't accuse her of being judgemental or you have already assumed as you claim she has.

As little as she knows of you I can promise you know even less of her for judgemental Sis Falla is not.

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Do you even know what comment of her's I was addressing?:ouch