Shunning: Biblical?
 

Some of you on here may remember my story...I left my former UPC church last summer. My husband is a licensed UPC minister; he still attends the same church.

Earlier this summer, I was shopping at a local store that was having a sidewalk sale. While perusing through some pictures, I happened to glance up and see my former pastor's wife and her two daughters walking directly towards me. They were maybe ten feet away. I prepared myself to smile and be friendly, even though it felt a little awkward. However, I didn't get a chance, because as soon as they spotted me, all three of them froze in their tracks, and quickly turned the opposite direction, and hustled off. They darted straight to their vehicle, and I stood there frozen as I watched them drive quickly out of the parking lot. It was so bizarre. They obviously didn't want to see me at all.

Not only was this display hurtful...it bordered on ridiculous. I could only think to myself: "Well, even if a small part of me ever wanted to go back to that church, it's completely gone now." When I left that church, I did so quietly. I didn't leave out of anger or confrontation, so this behavior really puzzled me.

Has anyone else ever encountered this type of shunning, or even engaged in this type of behavior towards someone else? Does anyone out there believe that shunning is biblical, and if so, what types of circumstances do you believe it should be practiced?

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Yes shunning is biblical for sinful practices, heresies etc....

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

There have been a couple of interesting threads about this in the past. You should do a search and read some people's stories. Bizarre!

And, no, the treatment you received is not biblical.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Thanks QP...I'll do a search. :)

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

The exact same stuff happened to us when we left. It was not a large city so when we ran into certain individuals their behavior bordered on the ridicules.

I was NEVER hurt by any of this because of our real friends did not treat us this way. Just the "Bertha better-than-you's" sitting in their amen pews.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Yes, I have encountered this. We live in a small community and on occasion we see former church memebers. The pastor was quite authoratative (a huge understatement) and when we see some of the members (one we most often run into works at the local wal-mart, which is the hub around here) they will avoid us at all costs. When they can't avoid us the conversation is short, and if they can keep walking and say "hi" in passing (always a reaction to being spoken to, never an initiated response) they do so. When we left the church it wasn't like this the first couple of weeks, I've got a pretty good feeling the pastor essentially scared them to death about us. They seem to think that if we so much as look at them they are going to become "charismatic."

Anyway its disappointing, and even a little hurtful, but just know they are not really reacting to you, they are reacting to a mindset that is founded in fear.

Is shunning Biblical, Yes, in a case in which a brother/sister is in blatant sin (such as 1 Cor 6:9-10) and refuses to repent. In a case like ours, no.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

But, of course, the shunners think you/she/we are. ;)

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

this happened to my wife, we had left the upci (the first time) and the woman who was her prayer partner and disciple teacher, met her at some establishment. There was a quick wave and no talk of anything.

wife made a note of how odd it was

before hand there would have been a conversation,but since we was not in fellowship no talk

but after we went back to church,

yea peas and carrots baby, peas and carrots!

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

I tells ya, I would give almost anything to go back 25 years in time to just after we left the church. While I thought it was comical back then I can only now think of all the comic possibilities! For instance, instead of simply grinning while many walked across the street in order to not pass us in person, now I would make a few hand gestures which they would no doubt interpret as a spell being cast by us, on them.

Again, there were many who turned out to be true friends but the bulk of the church were mind numb robots who followed the pastors marching orders.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

True, which is why I don't take it personally. It is a mindset, not true feelings of hatred. But still it hurts sometimes, because even if I don't go to church there (or another place) anymore, there is still a tendency to care about people even if there are theological differences. In fact, if we really love Christ we should not allow mere differences in doctrine to truly seperate us, though we may be more comfortable in a different environment. I don't think these people are lost (speaking of those from the church who shun, not the other place, though I don't think those people are lost either ;)) and if we are going to be in heaven one day forever then why not at least be civil down here? Its tough in a small town, but I imagine it would be really tough to be from a well known family within the movement.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

That is ridiculous, hateful and ungodly!!! We experienced some of this behavior when we left a UC church many years ago, and went to another UPC church. When we left the UPC, there were some uncomfortable moments, but we had and still do have some friends and lots of family that treat us well. We made it a point to be friendly and not to be afraid to talk to folks. We also, knew we had not left God, so were are comfortable to be around believer of all stripes, and to extend the hand of fellowship to all.

He that has friends, must show HIMSELF friendly, this is the heart of the matter. Those that refuse friendship, it is their loss, and I am sorry for them.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. :) I appreciate it.

When I was "in the UPC", I don't remember treating people that way, even those that had left the church. Those types of attitudes are what made me begin to question my church's teachings over the years.

It kind of reminds me of the parable of the Good Samaritan...and how people passed by on the other side of the road and pretended not to see him.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

You might read this....

(Rom 16:17) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them.

Many people feel they they are commanded to avoid people like you.

You said that your feeling were hurt. Have you considered how you made your husband feel when you left the church?

I should think that you destroyed his ministry. For if he can't keep his own wife in church how can he help or preach to anyone else.

It seems to me that you didn't only reject this church, but also the spiritual authority that God placed over you, i.e. your husband. (Eph 5:22-24)

I would suggest that you find a place to pray and repent and ask the Lord to help you get your flesh under subjection to the will of God.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Years ago I let my license with UPCI go for reasons I will not get into right now but lets just say the pastor and I had a good relationship and understanding and it was to be a temperary situation, in his and my eyes I was still a man of God without the card, I still preach when he was gone and taught bible studies and lead worship. The thing that hurt was not me as much as my wife as because I did not have a card that said I was a minister several of her best friends told her they could not be friends anymore as I was not lisenced. Incuding our best friends wife the pastor we were assisting. We were no longer invited over for dinner etc. Just rest in the knowledge and faith in God.

There is always someone like this quoting platitudes and traditions and vain deceits and phylosophy of man and not Christ.

From your point of view God created women of be an underclass citizen under the man. When God created woman equal to man in all things of importance. Read Eph 5:22-24 are you subject to Christ the same way you expect your wife to be to you? I think not, do you love your wife the way Christ love his church and gave himself for it? Again I think not or else you would not hold this macho rod of authority over her head as if she disagrees with you on anything she is out of the will of God. Ever think she just may know more than you do but as a man we have our head so far up our ... of mucho authority we cant see the light of day.

When a pastor or man cannot accept reason that they might be wrong THEY are sinning and out of the line of authority that is commanded in verse 21 of Ephesian submiting yourself one to another. Which Paul stated before he said wifes be in submition to her OWN husband. Her own husband is not by proxy the pastor.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Your counsel assumes the worst of Mirth and the best of those in the church she left. She never said that she left God, she left a group that are not biblical in their methods, her husband may or may not be in agreement with her actions. Paul said to follow him as he "follows Christ", no commandment to follow him no matter what he does, only as he follows the Lord. She has every right to seek after the Lord, and make decisions independent of misguided spiritual leaders, including her husband. She may very well be in right relationship with her husband, he may be trying to continue to help the church, but know he may have to leave as well.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

WOW! It's people with your mentality that drive people away from church. You are very judgemental considering you probably do not all the facts and really judgemental if you do have all the facts - seems maybe you should join her in that place to pray and repent (not agreeing with you she has done anything wrong - but just making a point).

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

None here know what husbands position on her leaving.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Doesn't matter what his position is on her leaving - no one who claims to be a Christian should act in the way she says the pastor's wife acted.

In the church I grew up in there was a situation happened which caused a lot of the people in the church to leave (I would have left too if I would have still been there) - the pastor got in the pulpit and said they were not to speak to anyone and cut all ties with anyone that had left the church and did not agree with HIM, even if they were family members. I don't care what the situation is - there is NO bible to say that is how we are to treat others. Do I want to make Satanic Cult believers my best friends - absolutely NOT but I would never shun them in a public place.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

I wasn't refering to how she was treated. Was refering to post about her submitting to her husband in this situation. We don't even know what he has said or wants her to do. It's unwise to place a judgement on her such as Rev did because we don't know the situation between her and husband.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

AGREE :thumbsup - I would not have anything to do with the church for a long time because of people who would treat people like this - I did not want anything to do with their God if this was how their God made them behave. Thankfully I am at a place in my life where if I am treated this way it doesn't bother me. I know I have a relationship with Christ while they have a relationship with their religion - that is the difference.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

I understand that there will always be some people that believe that I am a rebellious heathen. :) Just have to grow a thicker skin, I suppose.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

How do we know why they avoided her?

Mirth, have you talked to your husband about the encounter?

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

I guess it's just about the church you went to. I have never been treated this way. I ran into my former pastor's wife at the grocery store, I was back slid. We had a conversation, the gist of it was, we love you, get back in church.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Yes, I did. He was actually inside the store when it happened. (I wonder if they would have done the same thing if he had been standing beside me.)

He just shakes his head at stuff like this. He knows it's not right, but what can he do? I just let it drop because I don't like putting him in the middle anymore than he already is.

I grew up in a very different UPC church than what he grew up in. I've seen a lot of spiritual abuse over the years, and cult-like practices. His home church was more mainstream (In a completely different state). So I've questioned things, and put the study time in, while he is perfectly happy with the way things are. (to an extent)

I think how you treat people is very telling...

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Keep listening to the backslid people on this site and you will end up in more trouble than you can get out of!

They are closer to being gnostics (there is no sin just do what you want to)than christian.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

I haven't experienced shunning. The church I left has been taught very well about genuine Christian behavior. :)

I have seen it in action, though, several years ago at a different church. I didn't follow along, I remained very friendly towards the outcasts. :) They didn't know how to take it. :D

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Wow, he doesn't have a problem with going to different churches?

It sure is, it's very hurtful I think to be treated as an outcast for any reason.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

And if people listened to you there would be NO Christians.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Are you her pastor? If so, I can see why she would want to leave after a response like that. Do you know more than we know? Your response leads us to believe you've consulted with her husband and are criticizing her for her leaving. Did you think to wait for more possible details? You know, there are more sides to a story than one. And all we've seen is one side here, hers. But, there are probably far more details she's wise enough not to disclose. Let's try to respond based on what's presented instead of assuming as you have done.

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Who says it was shunning? Some people just do not deal with confrontation very well and would rather avoid it all together.
Has the pastor stood on the platform and said "Do not have anything to do with such'n'such person"? Avoidance and shunning are 2 separate issues.
I think you conciseness is speaking to you. You should listen. Maybe conviction?

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

As much as you appear to be all-knowing with some people's situation and "calling it like you see it," no wonder some people have a bad taste about church.

You sound like the kind that would preach to the choir instead of reach for the crier.

Just for the record, there are people who have been hurt and there are others who have caused the hurt. Whether we know all the details is up to that person either way. Anyone smart enough won't jump to a conclusion like you have and, instead, would ask more questions to get a clearer picture...

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

I suppose that could be one way to look at it.

I'm still honestly curious regarding the subject of shunning all the same, and curious to hear other people's experiences. :)

Re: Shunning: Biblical?
 

Ah so much to say so little time, some of the response have been forseable from the get go. The judgemental pharises that think they are the only ones going to heaven because they think they have all the rules down pat. Buckle your seat belts every one. Last night I was talking to a Diest couple as we have been having some very good conversations about God and Christianity. First becuase of some of my (backsliden views) as REV calls them. I have been able to start to get through to this friend after knowing him for 20 years. Trust me he has seen the two facedness of socalled Christianity and wanted nothing to do with it.

Second one of the things stated yesterday was an iterview on the Trinity broadcasting network. When the new Christianity was being discused. How they are teaching people to love one another and be more accepting of differance of opinions. One of these ministers said "this teaching comes straight form the pit." Teaching to love one another and be accepting is from Satan? Maybe every Christian needs to comit to heart I Cor chapter 13, and read and understand Romans chapter 14.

My opinion? not that any one cares but that is fine by me. Anyone that has the attitude shown forth like Rev has on this thread is not Christian and does not have the spirit of God.