For those of you that have the whole truth
 

For those of you that think you have the whole truth

I am putting this out as many of you have read my post now I have even had many say things like "this is a apostolic forum why are there those that are not apostolic here". I would like to explain a few things. I was raised UPCI, held many postions within the local churches within my state. Having carried General license not going on to Ordination only because I did not see the need while, time and study requirements were fulfilled.

I began a personal study of the things that many call standards of holiness. The reason for this was one of my saints came to me with concerns that they had found while studing certain points within our doctrine of standard. This persons final words were "the church teaches that this is bible but I have found it is not true, and I feel lied to". This caused me to question everything concerning this area of doctine. Would that others would do the same.

Within the first year I found what any person would find if they open thier heart to the spirit of God instead of being preached as gospel just because the person sets themselves up as the man of God and tell us that if we don't follow what he preaches we are in rebelion. See I was the pastor so I could not be in rebelion in questioning these things I myself preached.

What I found was that what so many of us take as the unadulterated word of God preached from the pulpit is in fact mans traditions based not on sound understanding but rather the twisting and pulling of passages out of context to preach what we see as sin.

Now I say all of this to say, to those that wonder why those of us like me are aloud to stay on this site. I thank God for brotheren like Praxxes that keep us here as this is a life line for at least me. You see while I may come accross as a know it all and that I am right and you are wrong, the bottom line is I cherish the discutions from other points of view as they help keep me on the right path and not off in truly false doctrine. (even though some think I am)

James tell us to "contend for the faith", and Paul tells us to "seek out our own salvation" and "study to show yourself approved" I have always felt deep sorrow when the UPCI went through splits over such things as differance of opinion of things that to me seem of such little consequence as tv, women wearing pants, cutting thier hair, whether one is saved at repentance, or after all 4 steps are complete.

You see we all need each other, as Paul say we are to be subject one to another, when we have these splits we are taking ourselve out of the natural order God set forth of checks and balances. Those liberals in the faith need the concervitive as much as the concervitive need the liberals. It keeps us balanced, or else we fall into cultism. There must always be differances of opinion else there would be no growth spiritualy. There is always something new to understand in the kingdom of God.

As for me this site is a testing of those deeper things I feel I have learned from God. Many times the arguments directed at me have caused me to look again at those things and restudy. Trust me when I say this any time some one quotes a passage in debate to me I relook at the passage again regardless of how many times in the past I have read and studied them. I just hope others are doing the same thing when I post.

I know we could all learn from a deeper study of Romans 14.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

One of the best ways to study a subject is to consider opposing viewpoints, and see things through another's eyes.

Aside from that, how much fun would this be if we all believed the exact same thing, without some variance of opinion to keep us discussing scripture, this forum would die.

For instance, Aquila didn't post much if at all yesterday, and I missed him. Sometimes when I read his posts I want to fuss at him for some of the things he says. But when he is not around I miss him.

Sorry Aquila, not meaning to pick on you, but that is the example that came to mind.

And yes, thank God for Prax, I think his voice keeps the forum from going off the deep end sometimes. Maybe that is just my opinion, but it seems that way to me.

There is always more we can learn and if we just hole up with our own little group and don't listen to others then we miss out on possibly learning more.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

If you were to go to a far more conservative board such as Everyone's Apostolic, you would find griping galore -all aimed at the reprobate sinners on boards such as this and those who would question the local pastors wishes. The more things change......

I am perhaps the least biblically literate person here and the very few times I have posted any sort of study (years ago) it has taken me hours to post what others seem to come up here in mere minutes, only to have it brushed off in a single sentence or two. I have better things to do with my time (but I DO enjoy reading what others write). I like to think that I bring a common-sense viewpoint. It is amazing to see how silly many doctrines are when one steps back a few feet and sees the big picture. Not only are some unable to see the forest for the trees but they are unable to even see the tree because their looking too closely at the bark.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

As I've said before, if everyone would simply agree with *ME* there wouldn't be all this arguing. *I* know *I'M* right and everyone else is wrong but their eyes are blinded and they just can't see that.

It's gonna be lonely with just *ME* in heaven!!

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

yea not to mention when one doesnt agree they pull out the

Your carnal mind cant understand the way of the Spirit scripture.
Or
The way of a man leads to destruction

It gets used like some ace in the hole card or they just trumped you...


but on a serious note, Iron sharpens Iron, and i like are debates. It causes me to focus my studies, sometimes in areas i have not gotten deep into, and expecially some greek,hebrew and a little aramaic.

since my deeper studies i have changed on doctrine, solidified on some, still searching on others.

so good things and some bad things

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Agree with you, Godsdrummer...

The short time I was around traditional pentecost, I saw a few things, as many of us have. But, it was enough to show me some people's true colors. Now that I'm not part of the circle of traditional pentecost, it's nice to have God reveal things to me instead of a man trying to convince me God spoke to him to show me what's in reality his own personal conviction...

While they (the traditional folks) sustain, so will I. So what if I've been there, done and made my mind up to live differently than some? So many times, I've heard "Well, God doesn't change, so why should I?" Well, no one's asking or telling anyone to change anything. Rather, provide another way to look at the Biblical core of some of the topics so heavily emphasized and preached on instead of hearing a bunch of personal convictions inserted as Heaven/Hell issues...

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

GD,

I enjoy reading your posts and I am glad that you are here.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

The fact that christian brethren disagree sould not be a cause for each going into his own little corner, unfortunately even Paul and Barnabas split over a simple disagreement.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

i wouldnt call it simple or they wouldnt have split over it. probably more than what scriptures have revealed to us. but enough that paul did not want to take mark with him

what little we have
Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them speaking of mark.

so there is alot envolved in that we dont know but i wouldnt call it simple

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Though I was initially rejected by the community of faith, of my youth, I embraced much more, the greater, larger,expansive.... Body of Christ! What an awesome God, I have found Him to be, there is none like Him!!!

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Something I found interesting in a writing:

Barnabas restored a youthful deserter. When Barnabas and Paul set out on their first missionary journey they took John Mark with them as their helper (Acts 12:25; 13:5). For whatever reason, Mark defected before the journey was half over (Acts 13:13). Perhaps he was homesick, afraid, or ill.

When the time came to start the next missionary tour, strong disagreement arose between Paul and Barnabas over taking John Mark with them. Paul didn't want to take John Mark because he had deserted them once before; Barnabas wanted to give John Mark another chance because he wanted to encourage the young man. The disagreement became so sharp that Paul and Barnabas parted ways.

Paul later recognized the error of his ways when he wrote to Timothy:
(2 Tim 4:11) Get Mark and bring him with you, because he is helpful to me in my ministry.

Think, for a moment, of how much the church owes to Barnabas, the Son of Encouragement. Because Barnabas was an encourager, Paul was able to go out and preach to the Gentiles and write 13 letters. Also, through Barnabas' encouragement of Mark we gained the second Gospel. Here is something remarkable. Barnabas never wrote a book that found its way into the Bible, but he encouraged two men who wrote over half of the New Testament.

Young John Mark may have simply been homesick.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

wow falla, that was a exellent piece you posted there.. :amen:scoregood

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Thank you, Bro. Acerrak

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

wonderful thougts Sister Falla.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Thank you, Sis. Alvear!

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Just some more food for thought, I have been in a discusion with a friend I have known for 25 years off and on. In the early years I was traditional hell fire and brimstone preacher he was agnostic. Over the course of time he has been in everything from acult, wica, christianity, and now deism. As my views have changed in the last several years so has his mind opened up to see and review the one true God.

The point is the outside world sees the flaws in legalism or what too many of us call Christianity with all of our rules and regulations. They want nothing to do with God because of this. Period. We do not win people to God we prostelite them to our way of thinking. and we know what Jesus said to the religious leaders of his day. We make them seven times the child of hell.

The thing is because I lay aside those traditions of my upbringing for a true relationship with God. I have cause this friend to take another look, at true christianity and not what has been perceived by most to be. He has even taken to studing the bible to recheck those things I state in our conversations.

We try to get people to become part of our church or denomination when we should just get them to find a relationship with God then everything else will fall into place over time.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Randy
Now that was realy a good comment

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Tried, once. Before I could even finish typing the address, I got struck by lightning. :lol

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Yeah, no kidding! :heeheehee

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts; but if he will be content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties." Francis Bacon

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

Wonderful posts here, so many people speaking 'my mind' and/or better. It is refreshing when someone speaks something that is truthfully searching out the 'spirit of' Spirit and Truth. (that was a mouthfull, did I say that right?) I have a few times in my life been accused of being a 'control freak'.....and after looking at that, I know I am not.....But, I do not care to 'submit' to the influence of someone who is obviously 'out of control'.
I am using this point as an example...when I feel confident and assured that someone is 'going in' a mind that is 'at least as good a direction' or even better than 'my understanding'....it is very easy to get behind that persons leadership. When some people are trying with their 'truth'to 'cram it down the throats' of everyone.....I usually see it as a very 'fragile' truth. I know we have 'a' scripture from Paul that say's we should 'contend' the Gospel. But when someone is 'always contending' incessantly...they are only being 'contentious'. I hope I am not seeming as a 'know-it-all' as someone else has already said.....for 'I' surely do not 'know it all'. I thank God for that. It seems to me, that when I 'know it all'....life will have become very unintersting. I praise the Lord for this 'adventure' that we have in Christ, and I praise Him for His 'Living Word'....which is always there the same, yet my understanding is given new and refreshed every day.
I would like to humbly suggest....that, most likely, every one of us does 'have the whole truth'......but, like myself, perhaps we do not yet have full understanding 'of' that whole truth. We 'see' the forest....and all the trees have been 'given' to us. But speaking for myself, I do not yet grasp the fullness of all that is God. I certainly cannot yet 'grasp' the depths of my Saviour's love for me. It all boggles my mind, it is all too much for me. Thank You Lord.

Re: For those of you that have the whole truth
 

You will be creating it, actually; and as soon as I can recognize that your branch is just fine as far as my branch is concerned, we might grasp Christ's second coming.