Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

As of today and for the past several months I haven't been in a UPC church. I know that the mode of operation is such that much doesn't really change in the UPC as a whole or at least changes don't happen quickly. I had a conversation with some UPC friends of mine last night and they told me that there still isn't much grace and love in the movement. This doesn't shock me since there wasn't much when I was in it. So my question is where did the grace and love go? Was it really ever there? Have we been a part of a bait-and-switch through the years? I am not trying to start a bash session, really I am not. I am curious because I have tons of friends and family still in the movement and it worries me that there isn't much grace or love in the movement, but they abound in judgement. Am I the only one that is feeling this?

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

What bothers me about Spirit Filled believers in general is a harsh critical spirit that many have fallen victim to and I'm not talking judging things that the bible labels as sin.

For example someone gets sick or has family probelms,then someone will say oh they have sin in their life or such things wouldn't come their way

Or someone falls into a moral failure then someone says oh they never had the goods to start with.

I'm not the brighest bulb on the string,but I have learned we need to be compassionate towards people.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

oh mercy!

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I'll just put it this way: from my experience, and after hearing all about how we're living in the dispensation of grace, I can tell you of a number of circumstances where one would have thought we were living under the dispensation of tyranny and spiritual murder.

Grace is preached so much in some circles...so much so they can't see the forest for the trees. But, they miss the bigger picture, likely because they're so hung up on dictating and legislating certain minor things in "Thus saith the Lord" fashion. Nonsense!

Until the trumpet sounds, we're still in the dispensation of grace...dispensing grace from God to spread it to the world around us. The world will know what people of faith stand for without ever having to voluntarily offer it. Grace falls under the umbrella of love, thus "the greatest of these is love..."

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I've had some probelms in my life as of late,and it pays to be merciful.
Many Christians have forgotten the pit from whence they were dug.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

In my limited humble experience being an UC

we were good at praying and fasting and saving the lost and having revival

we were NOT good at being open and honest and having personal relationships

we were too worried about letting our guard down because someone might see that we were not perfect

we were busy attending church, teaching Sunday school, going on bus ministry, singing in the choir, knocking doors, didn't really have time to make friends if you were doing what you were supposed to be doing . . .

I guess my post is about the love part of your question

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I hate you. I hate my neighbor and I hate my dog. Oh, wait, I don't have a dog! I hate my cat.

Did that make you feel better? :heeheehee

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

:kittyhug

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

NO! Not that one! This one!!! :dogkiss :toofunny :bliss

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I love doggies, doggie kisses are the best :highfive

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

Depends on what he was licking before my face. :heeheehee I better get back to work. Ya think? :heeheehee

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

'ta loca!

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

THAT part if OK. In fact both our dogs hate cats as well.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

tu muy extrano! :)

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

:toofunny Mine doesn't have a name. I just call him Gato. :heeheehee

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

There will of course be some UC's who say "We preach Grace and Love more than anything!" but it has to be understood the filter that a UC views the two things. A legalist will usually say that a person cannot earn their way to heaven but by God's GRACE, the Lord will allow you to earn it. And God LOVED us so much that he sent Himself (being careful not to use the word Son) to die so that we can earn our salvation.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

And I do not remember a whole lot of either from my days with the org as well. It was a more or less a constant show to see who was the most spiritual with things starting in the prayer room (not against prayer rooms!) with most men seeing who could pray the loudest and articulate what they were praying for the best. This carried into the service and life in general where the number one goal was to seek favor from the pastor and to be on his "good side" which in turn allowed one to look down on those who WEREN'T on his good side. "Backslidden, "Authority", "Prayed through", were all verbs used quite frequently.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I believe there are loving and unloving, judgmental and non-judgment in all walks of life and in every group (church and secular world). I wouldn't relegate that to any one group of people.

I have a sister who is bashing me and two of my other sisters on Facebook right now for what we believe. (She is reminding me of AFF - :heeheehee) I'm like - Wow - you accuse the UPC of talking about other people and you are doing it right now on a public forum? Of course, I am not saying a word to her. I'll let her finish out her journey on her own. We are all on a journey in this life and shouldn't criticize where each person is at the moment.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

There is nothing more disheartening than to be bashed for what one believes, not to mention if it happens through social media. At that point, I'd be rather challenged to withhold my response...

I'm reminded of a catchy song I happen to like whose lyrics are: "We live, we love, we forgive and never give up..."

I hope her bout (for lack of a better way to put it) doesn't turn worse or render worse results than anyone expected...

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

You'll have to explain because from my perception there is a lot of grace and love

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

Yea, she is in a bad way to be acting like that in public. I told my other sister that I'm not angry at her, just disappointed. She doesn't know I saw her posts and I would never discuss it with her. When she left the Baptist Church she was criticizing them. I reminded her that she was on a journey when she found the Baptist Church, as was I, and there are probably people just as hungry for God there as she seemed to be. I guess she doesn't get that.

It's ridiculous to criticize others, well, unless they are in a group sacrificing their children in a bonfire. :heeheehee

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I had been in church about a month or two, the church was very small at the time. I asked one of the ladies if she would like to go to lunch. She told me that we were all busy winning souls and didn't have time for things like that, I needed to grow up in the Lord and do my part. And again, this is my limited personal experience.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

:thumbsup

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

And that means what to my experience? You want to go to lunch with someone that is not too busy winning souls? I don't get it. What does that have to do with love and grace or my experience?

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

it wasn't about you, forgive me the post

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

You can always unfriend her. :)

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I have her on "block". :heeheehee Until she straightens out her nappy hide. :heeheehee

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

Good grief. And I thought I was feeling cranky.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

:toofunny

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

mande?

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I didn't say it was about me. Im asking what does it have to do with my experience or the topic of grace and love?

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

adjective

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I felt the church culture made it difficult for people to make close friendships, if a church loves you, you should feel close to people in the church. I was contrasting it with your experience but I'm not doing a good job of expressing myself right now I don't think. Plus I'm at work and stressed out so that isn't helping.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

Maybe there is at your church, IDK. The only grace and love I see is protrayed as God's grace will allow you to speak in tongues and I love that you come to my church. There isn't a ton of love or grace from what I see...I'm sure there is some given to sinners since they don't "know any better" but it's an interesting thing to see when in the "your body is the temple" type of mentality that the only thing I ever heard were sermons dealing with foundational things and nothing to do with the structure uner which we as saints should be living. Sure there are exceptions out there I am sure, but I haven't heard or seen much in the UPC district out West here.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I think that the church culture should be where you may not know everyone, but you should know someone if your church is larger, but if it is smaller then it should very much be a community in a community that loves the community. But often times nepotism and a "me" mentality are more often found in the UPC, but it is not limited to the UPC of course.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

The modern day church is like McD's.....go through the drive-thru....place your order....pay the bill....thank you, please drive thru. It's just a building on the corner where you drive up, place your order, look about at the rest of the customers, make no small talk, watch the children run about, clean off your table, and then leave. And, at home, you have a stomach ache and feel terrible because of the food your were served.

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

Word!

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I was there when they crucified my Lord
I held the scabbard when the soldier drew his sword
I threw the dice when they pierced his side
But I've seen love conquer the great divide

U2, "When Love Comes To Town"

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

I can't answer for your church, was it just that individual or the entire church that refused to fellowship with each other because they were busy loving sinners 24/7 but not loving the saints?

Re: Where has Grace and Love gone...
 

Out west here? lol I live in So Cal...West. What church are you going to?