Headship in the Home
 

For all Bible-believing Christians out there, here's a question for you.


I keep thinking of that thread about rules and the Pastor forbidding married couples the marriage bed before and on Sunday, among other things. Who has the final say in the home Biblically? Does what the Pastor rule take precedence over what the husband wants in his own home?

I am wondering what people are thinking as this is not just a UPC problem. I know of a Pastor who the wife went to regarding her healthcare when she found out she had breast cancer. She went over her husband's head to the Pastor. The Pastor made the decision for her on what kind of treatment she was to have. By the time she got around to telling her husband about her breast cancer, the Pastor had already made the decision for her and the husband had no say.

I know what my husband would say to all of this, but what say you?

Re: Headship in the Home
 

For the life of me, I can't think of any good reason that the pastor would have any say whatsoever in a married couple's sexual relations nor healthcare decisions. that is plain weird and cultish.

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That is what I thought when I read the "church rule" thread and my neighbor's medical decision.

I've seen men just step aside and let the Pastor run their home. When this happens, this in effect just take away the God-given headship that He has appointed the husband in their home.

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Sorry, but I can't in good conscience call them "men". Only the emasculated could be so weak.

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Maybe so...but how many men are guilty of not rocking the boat?

I know of one case where the wife was unhappy at her husband's church after they married. They were a critical bunch towards her. When the wife quit going, those folks rallied around the husband and continually patted him on the back...like "you poor saint having to put up with a "rebellious wife". He was eating it up. After she left, they gave him positions in the church that he wasn't given despite having been a faithful member of that church for over 10 years.

The Pastor told him that he should put his foot down and make his wife go to church.

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Yup. People who submit themselves to these control freaks are...well...I am thinking the word "nuts" but I don't want to be offensive if any of them are reading this so I will say they are just not doing themselves any favors and in fact are punting on their responsibility to make decisions in their own life.

I second that... Controlling, cult like, I would be gone so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. Not married to the Pastor....that's the only way he would get those decision making rights.

I sincerely thank God that the church that I have found isn't anything like this small minded, egotistical, hypocritical depiction. I would have given this journey up as soon as it began if it was. Makes me truly thankful for how rare and wonderful they are!

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This was one of those churches who taught that all people, both men and women should "obey those who have rule over you". Indoctrination for all new saints and that is how they grew.

When this man and his wife married, they couldn't even have a proper honeymoon because he wanted to get back in time for services at his church. She still has in her heart anguish over the way she was treated both by that church and her husband allowing her to be mistreated because he did not stand up for her when others were critical of her.

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You said it sister. A good church is like a rare pearl. Once you find that pearl, stick with it and be a willing vessel for Christ.

There is the saddest part. The damage that is done can not healed when it was done by those most trusted.

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Actually I started a thread (or two) about this subject and even posted some scanned images of the study guide he passed out. The church was not UPC, it was Assemblies of God, and we WERE out as fast as it took us to walk upstairs from the basement classroom and go to our car before the regular Sunday morning service started.

MOST disagreed with what he taught initially but only a few people besides us left. A little over a year later most came around to his way of thinking and believed in the "no sex on Sundays" rule as well as the concept of "sex for procreation ONLY".

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I've actually seen this from the other side more often where the wife refuses to leave the church and the husband refuses to go. Funny how the concept of the husband being the head of the household is never taught when it comes to church attendance. Endless long hours of "always there when the doors are open" church.

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Ok, I knew I read it from somewhere on here. It was also on that "church rules" thread.

RandyWayne, did not any of the men in the church give the Pastor scripture as to his boundaries in other men's homes?

I am trying to understand why some men will not stand up to the dictator...er ... I mean Pastor by giving scripture where the man is granted headship in his home by God.

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Yep. And I wonder why the husband refuses to go. Could it be more than the usual cracks about the husband being "backslidden"? Could it be that the Pastor "pulls rank" and emasculates him in his own home by telling wife to keep coming even if he doesn't want her to? Should she listen to Pastor or to her husband?

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Standing up to him is not even the issue... But actually even taking him seriously is kooky IMO.

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Stuff like this would roll off me like water off a duck's back. I would treat it like a friend of mine was telling me about her alien abduction.

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My husband has more authority than my pastor, except in two places (which really have nothing to do with my pastor):

1. My personal convictions, which are inherent to my relationship with God and between Him and me.

2. If he tells me to do something that goes against God's Word.

Now, I do realize there are some crazy people out there, but here's where it gets fuzzy:

1. Some men ask their wives to go against their personal convictions, and the woman (perhaps lacking backbone) will blame the church or the pastor, leading to unnecessary resentment between the pastor and husband.

Or

2. Women feel that it is a sin to disobey their pastor but don't feel it's a sin to disobey a non-believing husband. (For whatever reason, usually due to poor teaching). So in that case, they're choosing "God" over their husband; not necessarily "pastor" over husband, even though it comes across that way.

Some churches simply put too much emphasis on pastoral authority and not enough on a man's authority in his own home. Additionally, when the husband is an unbeliever, his authority is compromised anyway, since the whole idea of submission is wrapped up in a biblical concept in which the husband has his own part to play. If his half is missing, the submission part is VERY difficult. (Loving his wife as Christ loved the church) It isn't impossible, and Christian women should submit to their husbands whether they are Christians or not, but it's short sighted to pretend that it isn't difficult.

All that said: NO ONE tells my husband and me when we can use our bed, save God Himself (and He hasn't said anything). :blink I will never comprehend why pastors involve themselves in stuff like that. Stick to the Word. There's plenty of material there.

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I guess it goes back to the woman who said she wanted to make it to heaven.

Pastor's have a lot of power in what they say to the people especially when it comes to making it to heaven. When you find one who goes into extra biblical doctrine and new saints don't know any different, it is a big deal to them.

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See, this would be a problem for me, though. I believe that being faithful to assemble is obedience to God and has nothing at all to do with my pastor. If my husband told me I couldn't attend church, I would attend anyway because I believe it's disobedience to GOD to not attend. It's a deal breaker.

Obviously it's better if we attend together, so if it were just a matter of which church to attend, we should try to find one we both agree on.

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MsBrattified, that is sound advice to new saints.

I know of one man who was divorced from his first wife and remarried another. The Pastor told this man that he was living in sin. So this man divorced his second wife on the advice of his pastor because he was "committing adultery". I don't know the circumstances of his first divorce.

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This goes beyond the husband being the head..... When it comes to the family unit, the husband may be granted leadership status but in the order of things the wife has FAR more authority than the pastor as well.

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I guess I am not referring to a situation where the husband outright forbids the wife to go but situations where the church becomes the replacement family for the one she has at home. There was a message board where a woman went on about her unsaved husband and her marriage which was in a trouble. After she went into a bit more details it turned out that her husband was a long haul trucker and gone most of the time. In fact he was really only home weekends and maybe a couple of additional days a month, and yet she called her church family "Family" and REFUSED to give up attending ANY services. Her whole Sunday consisted of a couple of long church services and various practices in between. She thought she was WITNESSES to her husband by putting the church "Family" ahead of him. I suggested that she witness to him by actually staying home one Sunday and doing thins with him -an idea she thought was no better then selling her soul to satan.

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Such control is cultic.

With regards to the marriage bed... in Judaism making love on the Sabbath is considered a blessing and something sacred.

Too many Christians are just afraid of sex.

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The marriage bed is the couple's business,as long as the marriage bed is undefiled what goes on there is the couple's business.

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Where do some of these so called pastors come from????????

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Why do some pastors want to make men to be little children? Not trying to bash pastors because I'm sure that there are many good ones. I just have not encountered any who were not controlling in this region.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't your Pastor supposed to be your spiritual guide? The very words spoken during the wedding ceremony say "What God has brought together, let no MAN put asunder"

The pastor is only a man- even if an anointed one. He has no business discussing those issues or dictating a schedule for sex. Sounds like he has some personal demons IMO ....

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The question that arises is... what defiles a marriage bed?

Lingerie
Varied Coitus Positioning
Lotions
Aides
Being rough
How to Guides
Baby talk
Dirty talk
Name calling
Fantasies
Dress-Up Fantasy
Erotica

... and the list goes on and on.

I know pastors who have forbidden all of the above.
I know other pastors who have the attitude that anything that doesn't offend one's partner and aides in mutual enjoyment is acceptable and to be kept private.

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Some wives with unsaved husbands get verbally abused and even beaten if they stay too long at church. Of course these women get the same for a multitude of other reasons. Do we tell them not to go to church? It's not always the Pastor's fault that people can't or won't take responsibility for themselves.

I have watched controlling pastors, like this, fall by the wayside over the years. Almost all of them have a sin issue or a psychological issue.

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That is quite true Cindy. The pastor should be spiritual enough, if he knows a situation, to allow the wife to quietly get up and leave without feeling like she is usurping his authority.

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Why should a couple's bedroom life even be a subject of any pastor's teaching?

No doubt, there are people who are not confident enough in trusting the Holy Ghost to guide them ...well...they just have to ask the pastor if "this or that is ok".

I know one woman who asked her pastor if doing a certain "something" is ok. I am too embarrassed about what she asked him to post it here.

There are some things that should be just between you and God.

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Amen. Personally, I think if something is mutually enjoyed and doesn't violate the conscience of one's mate, they should have the freedom to revel in their passion.

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Be ok if he is increasing the schedule. :highfive:icecream :happydance:heeheehee

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Somethings are based off inordinate affection. should not intimacy be an expression of love? how does fantasizing she's the nurse accomplish that? Is this where house church leads to? :foottap

j/k on the house church. I have no problem with it.

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Has the thought of reporting cultish overseers to organizational leadership or elders a possibility?

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lol

Hey, I know what you're saying. I heard of a pastor who fell and sprained (or broke) his ankle one night when he and his wife were playing. When the medics arrived, he was dressed as Superman and had fallen off a chair in the bedroom. LOL

Love is an interesting thing. For some, being open about that "certain something" that drives them crazy is something they could only talk about, share, and truly enjoy with someone they love. If a loving wife knew this about her husband and came into the room wearing a nurse's outfit saying, "Hello, I'm Suzan, I'll be your nurse for this evening." with a playful wink... maybe that should be left between the two of them. lol