Question on standards
 

I'm sure this has been covered somewhere in the 1000's of posts, so I'm sorry in advance!

Why is it important for a woman to wear dresses? Is this salvational? Why choose to keep this law and not other in the bible? Does it say anywhere that a woman is to wear a dress? Or simply dress modest and womanly? In the same thought, didn't men of biblical times wear "dresses"?

Re: Question on standards
 

Nothing in the Bible demands that a woman wear a dress. Now, it can be argued that a dress is more "modest" than pants, but that's often in the eye of the beholder.

Just seek to be conformed into the image of Jesus in both your heart and character. Be led of the Spirit, not the standards.

Re: Question on standards
 

Angel, you are going to a UPC church right?
do most of the women wear dresses?
If so, I would recommend wearing a dress or skirt to church.

the UPC church has roots in the holiness movement and has carried on with many of the holiness traditions,
for a female this typically means wearing skirts/dresses and having long hair
dressing modestly. Take a good look at the Pastor's wife and note how she dresses.

It is UPC... And I know they teach skirts and no hair cutting etc. problem I have with that is that just wearing a skirt to church, even though I do mostly, it seems dishonest to go out of my way to do so. If on a mid week service, I'm wearing jeans when it's time to leave for church, I will wear what I have on. I'm not trying to hide who I am, what I do or what I wear. So wouldn't the deception be worse?

Re: Question on standards
 

what do you feel in your heart to do?
do that then.

Re: Question on standards
 

If I attend a UPC church I wear a dress, no makeup, no jewelry out of respect for their standards.

If you feel that would be deceptive and you want to adopt the standards because you have a personal conviction about them, then you should adopt the standards.

Re: Question on standards
 

In the early 1900's in American society, all "decent" women wore dresses. At this same time, the current holiness movement started. This, imo, is the reason for the standard. It does go back to the biblical commandment that a woman should not wear men's apparel or a man put on a woman's garment.
It is true that now the line is quite blurred in society.

That's exactly what I wondered! This actually clears up so much for me.

I am the mother of a teenage daughter, so I 100% believe in dressing modestly. I just can't believe I am going to hell for wearing slacks, trimming my hair or wearing makeup if I choose.

Re: Question on standards
 

Now, don't get me wrong, I am as conservative as anyone here and more than most.
I attend a church that preaches dresses for women, no makeup and no trimming hair.
It is all about where your heart is located.

Re: Question on standards
 

:hmmm That can't be right. It's what I do! :toofunny

Re: Question on standards
 

Anyway, the WWPF has this all figured out. It's in the Articles of Faith.

Re: Question on standards
 

Brother Bernard put it this way - "It's about the Direction you are heading". Outward Holiness did not, does not, and will not save you. However, it is a great indicator of how God is working on your heart.

I have a few questions for you.
1) What brought this subject up in your life?
2) Did you look around and see that everyone was dressed different?
3) Did someone mention it to you?
4) Was it preached over the pulpit?

The next question I have for you is, how do you feel about men cross-dressing?

Re: Question on standards
 

If we focused more on inwards holiness (conforming to the attitudes, characteristics, and behaviors of our Lord, Jesus) I'm very certain everything else will fall right in to place.

Re: Question on standards
 

You could be right. Trouble is, some won't think "everything else" is turning out right for some others. ;)

Re: Question on standards
 

Wow - he should run for public office ;)

Re: Question on standards
 

Good luck with that!!!! Let us know how it goes after you show up a few times for the midweek service with pants on.

Re: Question on standards
 

There are several books available that deal with the Duet 22:5 error.

You are correct, Paul in his teaching forbid us to be law keepers and Duet 22:5 is one of the 613 laws of the torah. If you keep one you must keep all.

Also, you can look up the original word "man" in Duet 22:5 and see that it translated "man" from the hebrew word geber or gibor. Gibor was most generally translated warrior in other places the word was used.

A proper look at Duet 22:5 would read, a woman should not wear the armament of a warrior.

There is NO place in the bible that would forbid a woman to wear a garment that is "split legged"

Those who impose or make this a law upon women today may find themselves standing in the same judgment that they judge these women with.

I have gone to church with jeans/slacks..many times. Never has the pastor said anything or anyone else for that matter. It is that I notice that people tend to "fake" things for the sake appearance at church. By coming to church in skirts and hair in a bun, but getting pictures of themselves posted on Facebook wearing sweatpants.

The only thing my Pastor has preached on is cutting hair.

Basically it's the hypocrisy I see some of the people wearing the skirts and just not understanding where it comes from.

As far as men cross dressing- I personally find it distasteful- but still don't believe it to be a matter of heaven & hell.

Re: Question on standards
 

You have to not be concerned with what others think. Live for God for yourself, and don't live for God to make other people happy. That's my personal approach. If someone has a problem with my walk with God then they need to take it up with the Lord. It's that simple.

As long as a person feels confident in their walk with God then that is all that matters.

Re: Question on standards
 

:thumbsup

That is what I truly, in my heart feel is right. But I also do not like to be judged, by anyone, but especially not behind my back and hypocritical like:) While respect for my Pastor and some members may cause me to wear a skirt for them, I don't hide the fact that it's not a constant for me.

Re: Question on standards
 

Angel, from reading your posts, I feel that in your innermost being, you want Christ above and first most in your life?

My sincere wish for you is that you keep your eyes on Christ only and He will guide you into all things. Please do not let anybody quench the Spirit. There is no perfect church, I know. However, UPC doctrine of Oneness, Water Baptism and Holy Ghost infilling is most satisfying and IMHO truth. Too bad the legalisms just get in the way.

What a revival we could have in this country if we weren't bound by strict legalisms. :happydance

The verses below tells us what keeps us out of the Kingdom of God.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
***********

And this verse tells us what we can expect when the Holy Ghost enters our life.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

(Galatians 5:22)

Re: Question on standards
 

I'm glad you have that attitude. For the record, I don't think anyone likes to be judged by anyone, and especially hypocrites, but unfortunately it happens. Remember, even as holy Jesus was He was not without critics. You will always have someone criticize you no matter what you do. It just boils down to what you can and cannot tolerate.

Personally, over the years I've become calloused to what anyone thinks. I know that my walk with God is right, and that's all that matters. Sister, keep your chin up! Be blessed, and be a blessing. :)

Re: Question on standards
 

:thumbsup

Thank you :) that is inspiring

Re: Question on standards
 

And, how does that play into standards with women? By asking such a question, you are implying that women who wear pants are cross-dressers.

You've got a long way to go if that's what you believe and are content to believe it...

Re: Question on standards
 

How would you feel if a man you work with wore a skirt and blouse? Or your Pastor? Or Deacon?

Would you not question their spiritual position, or even their moral position? I live in a state where a good 10% of the population are LGB, if not more. I have seen it creep into Churches (all churches). Why would you not want to draw the line somewhere?

Does legalism and standards save you. That is a big emphatic NO!

I believe any women that attempts to dress or act like a man, is cross-dressing; which is an Abomination unto the LORD. I think we have gone over this before. There are certain things that have un-clean spirits behind the acts. Drinking, Dancing, etc. Are the acts it self sinful?

Re: Question on standards
 

Is it hypocritical to wear skirts to church all the time if you really don't believe you must wear a skirt? Well, if you are doing so to convince others that you always wear skirts then yes!!! If you are doing so to keep the peace or be respectful then I don't think so.

I agree.

Re: Question on standards
 

Technically, yes. But not convincing others that you always wear skirts may be asking for more trouble than you'd care to deal with, in some cases. Hypocrisy may be used in self-defense! ;)

Re: Question on standards
 

Honestly, if you are going to make a UPC church your home church, and you have a teenage daughter, you may want to think about somewhat adopting the standards to blend in with the church.

Many in the church will perceive you as "other" if you do not look like them.

But, I would not force them on your daughter, she must decide from her heart over time.

Re: Question on standards
 

Honestly, the "standards" of dresses for women, make up, and jewelry is based on scripture interpretation. Right or wrong is according to one's point of view. My opinion is to study the scripture for yourself. God looks on our hearts and knows our intentions, no matter what others think.

Re: Question on standards
 

I could be wrong but you appear to be insinuating that women who wear pants look masculine. My wife looks very feminine in her jeans and other pants. You would never confuse her with a man and you would never put on her pants and blouse as "man's apparel" because you would definitely look like you had on women's clothes!

Hehe... Right, I'm not exactly put on a pair of overalls here. And I don't think my hubby would be caught dead in my silky slacks and sweater ... I find that I dress more as the WEATHER dictates. If its cold, I'm wearing as many layers as I can. I don't want to wear a skirt and have cold wind blowing!

In biblical times no one wore pants- does this make everyone wrong then? Of course not, it's just society's idea put upon women as a standard from the Victorian age! Be lucky that men arent supposed to still wear wigs. Was that considered cross dressing in its day? No- it was society's dictated fashion once again. Cross dressing is only in the people of the time and the personal standards placed upon it. Has no bearing on salvational issues.

Re: Question on standards
 

I know people who dress and look "the part", but are not holy on the inside (even if they have the Holy Ghost). Yet they're still accepted or at least "put up with". So I can see how many people look at "Outward Holiness" as salvation.

:smack

Re: Question on standards
 

having the HG inside of us IS what makes us holy.

As far as standards go, unless you like being treated like an outsider and people wanting to pray you through all the time, you may as well go along with the program.

Re: Question on standards
 

Oh, Lord. Now you're bring into the conversation the LGB stuff? I only went as far as women wearing pants. Sorry, buddy, you live in CA, a place that's just weird in more ways than I care to count. There are plenty of women who wear pants everywhere that are as feminine as one could get without even remotely crossing into the LGB category. Your comparison is typical: extreme and very fitting for "the mother ship" you're so dearly hang on to...

Re: Question on standards
 

I wasn't going to weigh in here nor have I read the whole thread.

But let's be fair here how can we take one scripture out of DEUT. 22 and use it for our purposes and leave the rest of verses in that chapter alone ?
Of course Christian men and woman are to be modest in dress,and live a lifestyle of submission to The Lordship of Christ.But how many men buy their pants from a women's department in a store ?
Also if we offend in one point of the law we break it all.
So what about everything in DEUT. 22 ?

Re: Question on standards
 

Lets not get all crazy and demand consistancy you reprobate!