Effective methods for changing a church within?
 

Do any methods exist that can be used to change a churches doctrines? or its leaders? or any other aspects that a person might want changed? If so what are those methods? Or what methods might work?

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Prayer
Good hearted debate

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

What about purposefully doing something that is against the rules of the church in order to hopefully challenge whichever rule is wrong? For example a girl who is a member of a church which preaches against jewelry might wear jewelry to that church? Could that ever work in getting the no jewelry teaching changed?

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Anything that subverts the pastor directly or indirectly is rebellion and sin. This is true no matter what he preaches. The best way to handle it is to either talk directly to the pastor or leave.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

This kind of thought is why people drink the kool aid.
The Pastor is not infallible like the Pope, er wait . . .

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

To effect change in your church, you must have a good relationship with the Pastor. You must be someone he trusts and has known long enough to respect your opinion. You could then bring a subject up, and say why you believe that doing something a certain way is not working, and what you would propose should be done differently.
If you are speaking in love with concern for the Church, he just might hear what you are saying and give it some thought. Over time, if what you are proposing seems to be in the best interest of the Church, he just might take steps in that direction.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

I suppose you also thought Martin Luther King Jr was in rebellion when he led his peaceful protests?

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

I wholeheartedly disagree my fellow UPCer! If not for yourself then surely you owe the body and specifically the weaker brethren more than this. A pastor is fallible just like other human flesh. He simply does not have blanket authority to preach, much less enforce his whim of choice. He is bound by the authority and limitations of scripture.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Prayer and fasting.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

My husband wants to know what scripture do you based this on? Or is this just your opinion?

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

What is it that you are wanting to change? If a church has things in it that you want to change then perhaps YOU need to change? As in change churches that fit your criteria to your own satisfaction. If you try to change a church you might end up unsatisfied further and fall out completely with God, because things aren't going your way?!

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

It's often not that simple, though. When a "church" has become your social center and reflects many generations of your heritage you have a right to have thoughts made known IMO. It's unfair to say one should be quiet and accept everything carte blanche or simply walk away.

This may be even more true if the changes you hope for are not a departure, but rather a return, to formally held beliefs of the fellowship. For an example of this see the UPC quote in my signature...

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

I see nothing wrong with talking to the pastor, asking questions...we all have a right to know why things are preached and taught at the local assembly. I think there is a right way to do things however....

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Bro Jay is not UPC

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Thank you. When I saw that post, I thought I might have to explain that myself. Thanks for the catch. :highfive

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Hebrews 13:17 is a good place to start. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."

A pastor does not have complete control over a church. Yes he is the leader, but there are Pastor, Preacher, Teachers and Deacons, in which they rule over you also.

If a Pastor is preaching something, he usually has the backing of the Deacons and Elders.

Edit: Can I take this a little further with scripture.
1. Ezekiel 3:17 - Son of man, I have appointed you a watchman to the house of Israel; whenever you hear a word from My mouth, warn them from Me.
2. 1 Corinthians 16:16 - that you also be in subjection to such men and to everyone who helps in the work and labors.
3. Hebrews 13:7 - Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

:thumbsup

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

I think this is a relevant question in the arena of thought that this thread has presented.

Does anyone know of a situation where someone felt that the church needed changing from the inside... and it ever happened?

I've never know of this to ever actually take place. I'd like to hear if anyone knows of an instance where it did.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

By the way... this is hilarious.

And true. :)

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

I agree, but I DO think there is something wrong with publicly flouting rules and encouraging others to do the same. That's unethical, IMO. Without addressing the religious side of the coin, it's a lot classier to direct your disagreements directly to the pastor and not go behind his back. :thumbsup

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Grape or Strawberry ?

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

WWPF rebel:spit

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Amen

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

There are churches all over the world that have experinced doctrinal change and today are radically different than before.

There are churches that for years sang the top 20 list out of "Pentecostal Praises" that today have exciting worship services that are filled with songs written by a plethora of new Christian song writers.

There are churches that use to only minister inwardly that today are reaching out into their communities in ways that a decade or two ago would be thought "going charismatic"

All of these changes were brought about by people within local assemblies that dared to ..dare i say, "Think out side the box.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Don't many peaceful protests begin by openly flouting rules and encouraging others to do the same? What makes a peaceful protest in a nation any different than a peaceful protest in the church?

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

I don't know of any where it has and I think that's because its easier for people to just leave than risk being labeled an outcast and troublemaker for trying to bring about that change from the inside.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Those sound more like what tend to be "from the top down" changes.

Do you know of any that were changes made by local church members pressing for a change?

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

From the top down changes can come by the Pastor observing the results of his ministry on the church and not liking what he sees. When you see that you are losing your young people because of harsh extra biblical rules and authoritarian control some might decide to change their methods. When the Sunday school teachers and Youth Leaders are wringing their hangs and saying "there are things that we teach that the young people are questioning, and 'because Pastor said' just isnt working for this generation, maybe it worked for us, but it's not going to work for them." Change can be an ebb and flow between the Pastor and the congregation because of love and examining the results of one's ministry. The church is an organism, not a one person show.

Adults can be open and honest and express their concerns in a respectfull manner. Young people on the other hand are most likely going to act out what they are feeling.

Not all of the traditions of men are bad, some are good and are grounded in biblical principles. Sometimes it's how those principle are presented. You can teach principles and allow God to work on a person's heart, loving them while God is doing the work. Or you can damage a person by demanding that they line up to the tee or they will split hell wide open.

Demanding conformity with an overbearing authoritation spirit will cause people to become judgemental hypocrits that are constantly eyeing each other up to see who lines up and who is on their way to hell.

We, the people of the Name, who love and worship God with beautifull and expressive praise, who see many come to the Lord with Holy Ghost infillings and baptisms in Jesus Name, have something so very precious. Let us not mar it by crossing the line from encouraging our spiritual children to become holy from the inside out to mandating life choking legalism that kills the love of the Spirit.

We who have begun in the Spirit, shall we then become perfect through the flesh?

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

I think you are right.

Also, there is a common misconception that a pastor's authority is not limited to teaching God's word, but is somehow extended to his whim of choosing while the balance of the body is somehow of lessor value.

Re: Effective methods for changing a church within
 

Yes, my church for one. We were fortunate to have a pastor that was also seeing scripture more clearly and was willing to step and teach change and allow change to be openly discussed.