WHAT!?! No Christmas???
 

:foottap Now I have been a bit slow in caving in on certain aspects of the celebration - but come on! NO CHRISTMAS? Garlic in your soul?? Termites in your smile?

Your'e a bad one
MR GRINCH!

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there better be a Christmas!!!! I'm looking forward to spending time with my family over the holidays

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I saw some nice looking stockings in a picture book the other day and commented to Kristin that those would be nice on our mantel... then caught myself, "Wait! Do we believe in those?!?"

LOL! She laughed and said, "I don't know, you are the one that was against them!"

I said, "Sorry, I can't keep up!"

I say who cares!

Let's make some figgy pudding and pour me some Peppermint Schnapps! Life is too short to play these games.

Get those stockings hung!

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:thumbsup:thumbsup

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Bahhhhhh....we dont neeed no stinkin Christmass!

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not all that bad terribly looking of a van :D

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Love it! :)

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What a great looking group!

But, but, but.......... Peppermint Schnapps?? YUCK!! If you're gonna drink, at least pick something good, my friend!

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Ok. This one time only I'll have a 52 oz rum and eggnog.

See, that was easy.

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Peppermint Schnapps is great!

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beautifull family Hoovie

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I haven't really celebrated Christmas since the age of fourteen. However, I do celebrate coffee.

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I still have this card.

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Wonderful family pic, Hoovie!!

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We've been christmas free for 16 years now and I don't have garlic in my soul. :)

I would have to admit that some who abstain from christmas do appear to have garlic in their soul... but I don't think christmas has anything to do with it. That's just the way they are.

Christmas is no longer a part of our mindset. The other day a christmas commercialism commercial came on and I caught myself thinking... "Christmas isn't over yet?" The only time I even think about it is when I see the commercials or I try to go to the store and I have a DVR so I don't often see the commericals.

I went to Walmart last Saturday to look at the Kindle Fire (I ended up buying my wife a set of Better Homes & Gardens cookware... it's a good thing we don't do christmas or she would have had to wait for a few weeks.)

But... as I was saying... We went to Walmart and after making a few times of circling the parking lot I was thinking "Man... what is the deal with all these people here" and then I remembered... Oh yeah... Christmas isn't over yet.

Also... December 26th I get my usual contemporary Christian music back on the radio. I'm looking forward to that.


But... no garlic. I'm free. My family is free. It's like explaining to a smoker what it's like to be "free" from that cigarette. They don't want to be free and they roll their eyes at you. Or explaining to a man at the bar what it's like to be free from alcohol. They like it... they enjoy it... And so talk of "freedom" from what one enjoys is nonsensical.

When I first refrained from the holiday it was for reasons of doctrine and I'll have to admit that, after 32 years of participating it seemed a bit odd for a few years after that. My parents fought me tooth and nail on the issue. They even called a family meeting earmarked to "Save Christmas". It failed.

But my parents said a few years ago that now that they are free from it I couldn't drag them back kicking and screaming. You'd have to experience it to know what I'm talking about... But I'm happy to be where I am.

Honestly all we really do is not participate in the commercialism that everyone seems to say they don't like. I honor my Christ every day of the year. I see it as nonsensical to have issue with the commercialism and then turn around and participate in it.

I am thankful for my conviction. It is a part of my garlic free soul and it's something I appreciate and hold dear. As I've said before I don't ridicule or even think ill of those who do participate. This is my conviction. It is something God and I have worked out and we're good where we are. In the beginning of this conviction I had no idea of the freedom I would eventually feel when I see others participate in the madness. I wish everyone could be free... or at least feel what I'm talking about for a day or so. Then after understanding both sides they could make a choice on their own. But we're raised up with certain expectations that must be fulfilled. We conjure up the spirit with all the trappings in reaction to the expectations that have been drilled into our minds from birth so there really isn't much of a choice.

But... the only garlic in this house is in my wifes' cooking and she knows how to put it to good use. Even on December 25th. :)

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So do you make sure you don't help others to participate? Do you avoid anyone who has decorations up? This is actually a serious question.

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No sir. If I go to anyones house and they have decorations up I don't do anything different than I would any other time of the year.

I'm not sure what you're talking about concerning helping others... but I don't do anything more or less for anyone than I would any other time of the year. If anything I do for them ends up helping them in giving gifts etc then that's not a problem with me. Anything I would do to help someone would be for that reason... to help someone.

For instance, if a friend is building something to give someone else for christmas and they need my help building it... I don't have a problem helping them this time of year just as I wouldn't have a problem in March.

I don't view this as some huge spiritual boogey man to be avoided. We simply don't make the usual trappings of christmas a part of our lives.

In a nutshell... I just try to be the same christian this month as I am the other 11. No more. No less. No fear. No avoiding. I just continue to live my life as I always do

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D4T, I can and do respect your decision to abstain.

For me freedom came when I stopped making lists of things we can't do or won't do because of it's pagan histories etc. It is truly a celebration of the Birth of Christ. A fun, festive celebration with focus on Christ, our families, food. Truly a wonderful time of year.

There are aspects that I still reject... we teach the kids about St Nickolas and accompanying folklore but there is no lying - we keep the fantasy in perspective. Though I must admit, kissing Kristin neath the mistletoe is somewhat magical...

Speaking of garlic, I had some this morning with my deer steak!

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I guess I should have clarified a bit. I often hear people who claim to not celebrate Christmas say "We just have a family get together and a nice meal" which to me IS celebrating. To complete abstain would be to make a point of doing nothing different on Dec 25th that you wouldn't do on any other day.

I think I understand where your coming from and appreciate the fact that you don't seem to spend the whole month of December being offended at all the Christmas trappings surrounding you, unlike some UC's who make a big show of averting their gaze from anything that they disagree with.

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Most families get together around that time of year and there are several reasons why it works out that way. It largely revolves around the fact that we are off from work and the kids are off from school and so is the rest of the extended family.

So it makes sense to get together around christmas just as it would if everybody got off of work and school on April 15th. It is clearly easier to get together at christmas and at Thanksgiving for these reasons.

So... as I have said... I just don't give the whole process any of my mental capacity. I don't "avoid the very appearance" or anything like that. I just operate as if it isn't a part of my life (which is a truism).

I don't participate... but I'm not a-skeered of it either. :) It's kind of like what Paul said about eating food offered to idols. I don't participate in the process but I don't find it offensive to use the by products for my good. ie.. the extra days off to get together... stuff that I need going on sale (although you can forget me getting out there on Black Friday... I'm not insane)... the candy that goes on sale after christmas or halloween etc.

There are certain by products that I find no offense in using to benefit my daily life. I just don't participate in the process although if I had a brother who was weak and took offense at me doing these things I would consider my brothers feelings when planning my actions.

I hope this helps.

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Yes sir... and I have to admit that I went through that stage as well (the making of lists of do's & don'ts) and I am AT LEAST equally as excited to be free from that as I am to be free from the rest.

To go from celebrating christmas to the large lists of do's & don'ts coupled with condemning my brother who sees things differently is not an improvement except that, for me, it was part of the path that led me to where I am now and I see my "now" as a great blessing.

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Connie is a cutie and I always like to hear her sing.

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Was Jesus born on December 25? Does Jeremiah the prophet say something about fastening a tree to a platform and decking it with silver and gold? Does YHWH say learn not the way of the heathen?

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Oh c'mon bro, that prophecy has nothing to do with celebrating christmas.

Jer 10
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

This prophecy in context was dealing with Israel's idol worship. They were literally doing what the heathens were doing, by worshipping objects.


Rom 14

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Christians who are celebrating christmas (or easter) are celebrating unto the Lord (not unto the christmas tree...lol).
And those who do not feel like celebrating, they also are doing it unto the Lord

Rom 14
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.



The service is now over...you may all go home and eat your ham (or turkey if you are British...LOL)

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Yeah, how can you do what you do for a living and not believe? And look at all those beautiful people you have to share with. :)

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Well I don't generally involve myself in these little discussions any more but I'll delve into this post.

I agree with you that the mentioned of taking a tree and fastening it with nails etc is probably not speaking of the pagan rituals that eventually became the christmas tree... and if it was... who could prove it. So I don't hold onto that scripture for that purpose. It's a losing battle that is based on flimsy evidence.

But I do believe that these scriptures do pertain to the christmas tree issue in this manner... Learn not the way of the heathen...

The holiday and all of it's trappings would have never become a part of christianity had this portion of scripture been obeyed. The traditions of the season are clearly of heathen origin and they should have never been learned and practiced by God's church.

This is one of the scriptures that have formed my comparitively moderate approach to my refraining from the holiday. Of course I don't believe that pagan celebrations were the intent of this scripture. I don't think the writer intended to be saying that using heathen practices designed and intended for a heathen god were okay to take and place a thin veneer or christianity over and then use as worship to the one true God.

But... again... it is a favored candy stick of those who differ and I find it useless to press the point. So I don't.

Did he really mean that as it is being expressed here? Nothing is unclean of itself? Adultery is not unclean of itself? Murder is not unclean of itself?

No... I am not comparing these things to christmas. I am simply making the statement that this verse is not saying what it is accused of saying. There are things that are wrong.

I believe that the apostles would have warned against combining the worship of heathen gods with the worship of the true God.

But... again... this is my take and my interpretation and to press it on others would be useless and unfruitful.

There are times in the history of God's people where they had picked up practices of heathen worship and they had given that worship unto the Lord. God does not have a history of viewing that worship as acceptable.

When the nation returns to God what we see happen is a good leader will come and tear down the high places etc. What were they doing with those high places? They were using ways of heathen worship and they were performing these methods of worship as unto God. I see no example where God accepted that worship as His own. The ridding of these heathen worship methods was always seen as coming back to God.

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we cant hang the boys stockings. they are 4 feet long. we hang them up on the silver stocking hooks that sit on the mantle, they will pull them down and those heavy silver things will crash down on the poor darlings heads!


LOL

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I always thought thats just what it meant. No, Adultery is not unclean of itself. Nor any other sin or crime. We can name them what we want, but without one to commit them, there is nothing unclean being performed. An action (verb) can not be unclean to itself because it takes an unclean person (noun) to commit said action.

Jumping and running are nothing in and of itself, unless there is someone or thing performing the action. I always thought that was the meaning of that scripture. It's not what is being done, its the heart of the one doing it.

The same is said in scripture of the opposite, we can do good, but if not doing so for the love of Christ then there is nothing good in it.

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Anyway...

I was going to tell those who don't do the holidays about something I found and just bought on ebay. It is a CD Rom with 40 different book on it that revolve around the issue of the pagan origins of christmas.

I did my studying on this issue years ago and I don't study on it much anymore but I was intrigued by this list of books because they are from the 1800's & early 1900's. These are the references that are hard to find and they are the books that contain information that comes from the early days of the debate on this issue before it was well engrained into christianity. I view this as a valuable resource and it cost a little over $5 after shipping.

So... in case anyone is interested here is the info. (Some book explanations had to be deleted to get under the 12000 character limit)

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I totally understand your sentiments. I don't even concern myself with xmas...it's too much of a headache for me. It's funny I'm "defending" this...I really am apathetic to celebrations in general (even my birthday...lol)


All I'm saying is if xmas is truly celebrated by giving thanks to God in the name of our Lod Jesus, I don't think that should be considered pagan worship.
I'm sure there are people who have gotten born again during an xmas service...

Ofcourse, some people are always gonna make an idol out of any holiday, whether xmas, easter, or july 4th..lol

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Where there is no action there is no adultery. But any time there is adultery... there is sin. Without fail.

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I'm the same way. In "celebrating" anything what do we do? Soother our own psyche? Americans are event oriented in so many ways. We have a concert to raise money to help farmers and we all go home feeling better because we had an event.

We don't focus on anniversaries etc either (although I do take my wife out on our anniversary) because we're just not even oriented people. What I mean by that is this... it's more important that I let her know how much I love her every single day than the fact that I get her something on that one day. And then I take her out to eat on top of all of that. :)

Yes sir...

Not pressing you or anything... but if you feel so inclined to comment I was wondering what your thoughts were on the following...

How do you feel our present day use of worship methods of heathen origin differs from those times in the Bible that God found such things so offensive?