Confidentiality of Tithes
 

Never have ask this question before and not sure it has been discussed.
For the most part, every church business meeting I have attended while in the UPC, the tithing report amount is kept confidential. Anyone want to explain why this is so? What is the big secret? All other funds where always reported.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

There is no secret at our business meetings. All contributions are listed:

Tithes
General Offering
Missions
Misc Special Offerings

Then the expenses from each group is listed.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

I can see why individual tithing reports would be confidential, but the total amounts should be available to everybody.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

UPCI?

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

Nope, the churches I have been a part of in the past only showed the general fund and not the tithing account. One was UPC and the other the pastor was former UPC.

Amazing the difference, I now go to a baptist church that has audited financial statements, is overseen by true elders, and has the monthly financial statements online, has 32 million in assets, a budget of 12 million a year. And, weekly attendance at my campus is around 8000 while the auditorium seats about 1500. Total contrast to the church that has a 400 seat auditorium with 60 people, if that.

Looking back, I have thank God for his grace because I gave a lot of money to a church that wasted it and I never questioned.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

YOU are wasting it now supporting false doctrine and sending yourself and your family to hell.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

in the last upci church I attended every dollar in and where it went was in the annual report to the church.

The upci I attended prior to that, the tithe were never reported separately from other funds that came in.

What the pastor took out was an unknown.


Pastor's that operate this way today simply are hiding something. They do not want anyone to know how deep they are into the pockets of the church.

Everyone that is participating
in supporting the work of God has a right to know about the stewardship of the church.

The first church I ever attended had a business meeting twice while I was there (in about 6 years). No other church I've attended since has had a business meeting.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

No wonder you are passionate about financial contributions. That's pretty radical!

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

We have attended 2 UPCI churches over the past 10 years. If there was ever a business meeting at either one we sure were never invited. Thinking about where all that money might have gone would give me a head ache... and a heart ache. So I have just purposed to know where my money goes in the future.

I did have a friend that is a UPC preacher tell my husband that he never put much in the 'general fund' because "when you do that people start wanting to mess with it".... whatever that means.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

So Steve are you stating that all Baptists are going to hell?

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

Yes it is UPCI - and I want to clarify something. Individual contribution information is not given to anyone other than the Pastor.

The pastor draws a salary just like the associate pastors and secretaries. The pastor's salary is agreed upon by the pastor and the trustee board. The associate pastor salaries are set by the pastor.

All the salaries, bills (utilities, mortgage, insurance, etc. etc) are paid from the tithes and general offerings. All special offerings are in a designated fund to be used for that designation. However, the church by-laws state something to the effect that the church administration reserves the right to redirect designated funds if necessary. This is also stated on the contribution envelopes. (I don't have an envelope here and can't remember the exact verbiage.) It would be a good idea for all churches to have something similar in their by-laws and printed on the contribution envelopes.

All this information is freely given at the business meetings and it is announced that all the books will be open for review for 30 days after the business meeting. (The individual salaries are not listed - just the total for "salaries.") I have no idea if anyone has ever asked to review the books - although I do doubt that individual salary information would be given out.

The church income and expenses are audited each year by an outside CPA that has no connection to the church.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

He has stated that anyone with facial hair in his church is going to hell.

What do you think?

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Sweet Pea is fortunate to be able to attend a church so open about their finances. I had a pastor once who, when asked where the tithes go, told that man it was none of his business.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

Probably followed by a story of someone who DID question where the tithes went, and then died!

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I like my husband's facial hair. He keeps it trimmed and neat. It makes him look...well... manly!

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I think he should not have a church.

My husband is from a huge generational Baptist family with lots of preachers. Many godly folks who love the Lord with all their hearts, minds, souls and strength. Amazing that someone could just toss them into hell (which I am sure bro. Stevie-pie believes is eternal torment) just to be an abrasive smarty pants on an internet board.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

Yeah...probably did. They probably know where he is spending eternity too.

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Only soft skinned men (and I use the term "men" loosely -other wise they would be a threat to the pastor) from Eply's church go to heaven.

Sorry Steven, but your threatened by real men.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

That setup sounds good to me.

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The UPCI affiliated church I go to not only lists the amount in all funds, but also has a yearly business meeting.

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Once, a few years back, "The books" were suppose to be open for 30 days, but I found out that was excluding tithe.
I tried to find out the amount of tithes that my pastor was receiving in private meeting with him, while I was still a board member. Didn't even happen then, not even the board members knew either.
It was the same "nun of ya business" as u mentioned.

So much for accountability.

"Untouchable men a God"

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And if you DID find out, then you would surely DIE!

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When I first started going to the UPC, one faithful member gave me a check marked to be her "tithe" and a second check labeled "offering". She was going out of town and asked me to drop these checks into the offering plate for her. She did not put them in an envelope. It seemed as though she wanted me to see the checks. And I did. I was quite green about "giving" so I asked her what the difference was. She proceeded to tell me the story about how the "tithe" in the OT went to the Priests, thus the "tithe" today goes to the Pastor, while the church operates on the offerings.

While I know some people will dispute this because their church does not practice it this way, there are many churches around the country who infer that their pastor is a levite.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

I think many are like my mother, she's was going to the same church for about 40 years, paid tithes for most or all. She said it's between the pastor and God what he does with it, she did her part. Tho she said she never understood why exactly it went to him.

I think it's sorta like the ol' UPC "daddy hands the church to the son" thing, nobody really knows why, it just happens very often.
Oh, wait I know, it's the levitical bloodline :thumbsup

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

Finances are a touchy subject. While I do not believe that the saints should run the church I also believe a good godly pastor will want accountability and openness.

If you are handling finances in a proper manner you have nothing to be afraid of in being transparent about them.

If it is done with a right spirit and attitude there is nothing wrong with wanting to know how church funds are handled within reasonable limits.

I personally know of terrible situations of financial mismanagement in churches. Sometimes done with the best of intentions but by a man who just is not good with money or lets his hear over rule his head. Those people needed a system of accountability to protect them from themselves.

There is currently a situation I am aware of where a highly regarded long time pastor died and now the church is finding out that there are no financial records, no accounting of building funds raised over various drives, etc. I will not discuss or reveal the person involved but it was one of the biggest shocks of my life to hear of this situation from a UPC preacher I trust.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

Everyone who has not obeyed Acts 2:38 is lost.

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It's off topic but I have seen this so much in last few years it boggles the mind.
I never knew the church was a business or inheritance. :ouch

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A problem we have with the church system the way it is established now, is that our current set up is not how the early church intended it to be. We went back to having a High priest, scribes and pharisees and the lowly people who must obey them, according to man. We have thousands of people filled with the Holy Ghost who has to have "permission" from a pastor to do any type of ministering to others. Many of these people cannot follow the lead of the Holy Ghost in their lives without having to "ask" permission from their "lords".


And...We have a system that puts stricter rules upon women, but Jesus sought to elevate the women's status.

Jesus put more of the condemnation on the Pharisees in Matthew 23.

Now consider these verses in Matthew 20

And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

and in Mark 10

42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Does the modern day word "minister" line up with Christ's definition of minister?

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

It doesn't surprise me. We just saw the Mike Judge film, Idiocracy, and it shows how people with IQ's of 80 average soon dominate the earth.

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Ya think??? :nod

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"Small" men, small minds.

And even smaller people who choose to follow them.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

That's a depressing thought.

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I thought the tax laws required an annual meeting.

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How do you operate Elder?

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Hard pressed to find scripture for a system that is non-biblical. All tithes going to an individual.

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Get yourself a congregation that worships and fears a man and he can pull any strings he likes.

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Wait, ELDER?
Um, yikes?

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Now, now, I am sure there are some deacons in the mix with the one ELDER. However, they were hand picked.

Re: Confidentiality of Tithes
 

You are required by law to have a business meeting once a year and disclose financials. We don't have secrets - all amounts are read at the meeting. But then we don't keep all the tithe - we're on salary like all the other staff.