Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Or is this just a regional thing?

I probably won't get any answers or if I do, it will be a denial. But....

I was told by a local church's board member that when someone leaves one UPC church for another, the Pastor is called from the former Pastor to tell his version of why that person left. Then it is passed on to the board members.

Board members can't keep anything quiet. They tell their wives and the wives tell other church members.

Then when the "new" person starts the new church hoping for a new start, he/she gets the cold shoulder from the people and the new pastor never brings the subject up to discuss it with the new member.

Please tell me it ain't so....!

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

It happens all the time here. We were very in with the in crowd at our last church... friends with the associate pastor and other ministers. We heard all the dish on new people.

One place it does not happen is between our old church and our new church. The pastors hate each other. The pastor of our old church having preached what a weak backslider church our present church is over the pulpit... Of course someone couldn't wait to give our pastor the tape. Now it's the Hatfields and the Mc Coys.

Never fear though... we have saints that will tell everything that they know about anyone coming in from any church within 100 miles. Lots of our folks are pretty tightly 'line bred' and everybody knows everybody because one way or the other they are related to everybody.:heeheehee

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

I think part of what you said happens.

In fact, I think it is a good thing for Pastors to communicate in situations like this.

Unity is protected when Pastors communicate.

The Flock is protected when Pastors communicate, when the church member in question is someone that is disruptive.

Accountability is maintained when Pastors communicate.


It is up to the individual Pastors to keep such communications confidential, as the souls of more than one person is USUALLY at stake when stuff like this happens.


I don't think that Pastor's are purposely publishing the personal business of the souls of the people they are given charge over-- in board meetings or any where else. Neither do I believe that most of them handle situations like this in a way where someone can get hurt.


NEWS FLASH!
Most Pastors love the souls of the people that God allows them to serve.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

But, what if that person is not disruptive and the former pastor and member had a disagreement that neither was willing to work out? Does the member of the old church deserve the cold shoulder from the new church?

Of course it boils down to one person's word against the other. But most people automatically take the former pastor's side, lest they get shunned too. Perhaps the pastors should keep it to themselves and not tell board members anything?

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

I have no problem with pastor's communicating with each other about saints who move from one church to another but that communication should be private and held in confidence.

I will grant you that in old time Pentecost there are instances of preachers unfairly painting incorrect pictures of saints that have left their church out of anger and spite but they will have to answer to God for that.

The flip side of that is if someone is a serial troublemaker moving from church to church and sowing discord a pastor should be warned so they can deal with the person with their eyes wide open.

I would like to think that a godly pastor would be able to discern between truthful information shared for a good purpose and character assasination out of anger or spite.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

No, no one deserves the cold shoulder because of a disagreement.

Pastor's should and I'd even say most do keep the details of sitautions like this to themselves, telling maybe the Assistant Pastor, which would mean their wives would probably know too.

I imagine they would want good things for the saint in question, as long as this person is not posing a threat to the Flock.


If this person is posing a threat to the Flock, then the new Pastor has a difficult situation on their hand-- one not so easy to quarterback from the comfort of my pew.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Oh and once again..........I'm so thankful to be independent, and not a part of an organization.:thumbsup

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

If someone is a troublemaker it won't take long to figure it out without anyone calling ahead to gossip about them.

NEWSFLASH: There are as many kinds of pastors as there are people filling the office. I was searching for something else and found this:

http://www.macon.com/2010/07/07/1187...link=email_msg

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

The UPCI does or used to require a letter of transfer from one pastor to the next. Today, most probably just exchange a telehone call, if that. Something about ministerial ethics. I think it is a good idea.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Oh please!!

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

This was a board member telling me this news. He related to me that his pastor told the board members.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

The pastors hate each other? They have hate in their heart for each other and they are both preaching the love of Christ?

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Well if I were to be perfectly correct I would say that the pastor from our old church hates our current pastor. He lies and says terrible things about him and his church, which is actually pretty conservative...

Our current pastor is hurt and believes that our former pastor is lost and is maybe even angry about how he has been treated... but hate, no- I mis-spoke, I am just almost sure he is incapable of real hate. He is a Christian and a gentle soul with a servants heart.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Kind of nuts huh? Yet I saw it growing up in old time Pentecost. In my case it was one way. I attended the "liberal" UPC church (this was in the mid 70's and this meant the pastor used hairspray and wore flared pants on occasion).

The young people from the conservative UPC church just outside our town would tell me at school (public high school) how horrible my church and pastor were and would eagerly rattle off all the things their pastor said against my pastor and church.

Of course this all stopped a few years later when their pastor ran off with the young daughter of one of the elders in his church.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

The Baptists, at least the SBC, still require the letter... but it is never gossipy.. It simply says you are a member in good standing. If you can't get a letter you have to get saved all over again to join the church... Now THAT is probably not a bad idea!

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Ok. I can understand anger and hurt. It's not the same as hate.

But that does not excuse the other pastor saying untruths about your pastor. (I know you are not saying it does excuse him)

I guess this figures in the same as when a pastor tells another pastor something about a saint that left one church for another. Sometimes it may just be a pastor's point of view, but the way I see it, if the pastor's point of view gets around in the new church and the saint doesn't have a chance to defend himself and tell the "rest of the story", that is almost character assassination. Many in the new church knows one side of the story and the new saint gets a cold shoulder?

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

I know I've had a upc pastor tell me that if we were going to go to or visit his church and were members of the other upc church he would have to let the pastor of our other upc church know... I've heard it was a rule they had to do this but maybe the reason was just heresay.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

That's been my experience :thumbsup

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

:heeheehee I remember those days.

:shocked:

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Moved around a few times. Never had a transfer letter. Phone calls were exchanged. Many bad things could have been said, but I was always given a good report.

I think most pastors would want the saints to have a good start.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Don't have a problem with that as long as the new pastor can have a talk with the saint leaving the old church to hear their side of the story. But to tell board members, then they tell their family and friends...not good. The saint is trying to make a new start to live for God and is cut down before they get the chance.


Oh please what?!?

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

That is true. It's happened around here.

Control issue.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

I think it was the part where you said people might not answer... I get the feeling that there is not much you wouldn't get an opinion on at AFF, LOL!

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

....oh well...there's nothing new under the sun....is there? LOL

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Amen! Glad to see someone say SOMETHING positive about men of God!

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

So that has ceased now?

I wonder when that happened?

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

The pastor that would tell his board about the family transferring probably has a church where everbody is already talking about each other anyway. A lot of different scenarios going on with this thread. We've seen them all. Either men or honorable or they aren't. My experience is that most are.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

And my experience is that most are when it suits them.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

I used the present tense "are" so why do you think I think it has ceased?

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

It seems there is alot of distrust among ministers.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

The problem is that all too often, the saints tell saints one story, and the pastor tells a different story. I have seen it both ways, but growing up in a Pastor's home, I have seen enough to say that many times saints who move are trouble makers (not all of them by any means as I have known many good people who had to move because of family, employment, etc.)

The main problem is that anything that was said in the board meeting should have stayed there. Further, why did this board member say anything? It seems to me that church boards are more trouble than they might be worth.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Wow! After reading this article.... if this continues to be a trend, many, many pastors had better pay a little more attention to the words they speak over a pulpit! I have been in MANY services where a person's character was slandered with no evidence to back it up.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Of course the saints tell one story and the pastor tells another, Jay. Sometimes the pastors are correct and sometimes they use their position to destroy others. And don't blame the board member who let this practice out of the bag. He thought it was not good and told the truth. While it is true that gossip should have stayed within the board, there is a problem with pastors even mentioning it to the board. In fact, a friend of mine was married to the son of a pastor. She said it was common for them to go home after Sunday morning services and talk about the church folks at the dinner table. Is this honorable?

At one time, I used to think pastor's and elders could do no wrong, until I've seen what they have done to others and have been treated unfairly myself. So, yeah there is a lot of distrust because when it comes to people's lives and souls, many things should be kept confidential.

Who is defined as a "troublemaker?" Someone who questions? Someone who doesn't think it is necessary to ask the pastor for permission for every detail in their life? Someone who has convictions of their own? Someone who doesn't tithe? It seems that saints who do not "obey" in every detail the pastor outlines get branded as "troublemakers".

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

If this is happening in your area it IS only a regional thing. The UPCI has no requirement for a pastor to give info/gossip to his local church board concerning a transfer. They do suggest a letter of transfer, but it is not enforced.

IMHO this sounds more like a Church/pastor specific action, and at face value speaks of poor leadership. The details may reveal that this was justified (the telling of the board, NOT their repeating it and subsequent shunning by the members) for example: a transfer is coming under grave circumstances and the pastor needs to inform his leadership so that they can help the incoming family/person and protect the body as well.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Thank you bishop for your straight forward answer.

This does happen in this region, probably more so since many of the churches in this region have/had pastors who are related or have relationships that run deep from the past. i.e. pastor emeritus, son's, son-in-laws, and grandsons, co-pastor's etc.


Oh and I stand corrected about predicting the answers will be a denial. :)

BTW, what constitutes a troublemaker ?

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Really... AYR and I live several states away from one another... it happens there and it happens here.

I think that part of why you don't see it is BECAUSE YOU DON'T DO IT.

I don't gossip at work but I work in a very gossipy office. I never know what anybody is doing wrong because people don't tell me... they still tell everybody else but not ME.

Honorable pastors believe that most pastors are honorable because those that aren't don't let the cat out of the bag around them. Maybe 'most' are, or maybe half are, or maybe only a small percentage are... Only God knows for sure but I'm met a few doozies and I'm nobody special... What does that say?

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

I've been a pastor in the UPCI for 16 years. I have never done the above (tell Board members). I do exchange a phone call if I don't receive a letter, only because I want to make sure I don't use the wrong person in a position of authority.

And, I do want to know if the person has any sexual or physical abuse history.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

I had a few years where I moved from town to town. Most job related.
It can be tough adjusting to pastors and churches. We were pretty Con in the day. Although the most CON church was not necessarily the most controlling. I concluded after months of messages that the pastor with the most control stemmed from a lack of trust in the ministry while growing up.
After a while it became apparent he simply had a chip on his shoulder.
He didn't like typical UPC involvment. This was manitfest some years later when he pulled out. Even before the TV vote.
Needless to say, I had to take a hike after about a year of it and get on with life. Glad I did.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

With all due respect Sherri (and youdohave mine!) you are in an organization! With multiple churches in multiple states and countries you are well on your way. You and Eddie are good people and don't have the character flaws that are inherent in bad leadership situations... But whether an organization is large, like the one I'm in or small like yours, it's essential that systems be in place to help prevent abuse, authoritarianism and dictatorship.

Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?
 

Thank you for your reply and honesty. In cases like this, I would think this to be appropriate.

In some of the other cases I am talking about, it seems that some make a beeline to the phone before the next Sunday arrives. I've known people who are unhappy in one church tell falsehoods about why they are leaving so that they would not have a disapproving phone call to their next church.

So...what is worse? To be honest about a disagreement and get shunned at another church or to tell falsehoods about why one is leaving so that they are not shunned at their new church?

Please keep in mind that I am not talking about leaving one church because of sin. I am talking about leaving a church because of unresolved disagreements that neither pastor or subject....ahem...sorry...saint would neither back down on or agree to disagree.