Death Penalty
 

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Death again. Sounds like "law" to me. Hey, there's a double~entendre in there, too. Cool.

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I never understood 20 or 30 year sentences being fulfilled in less than half the time...

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I sometimes am for it, and sometimes against it.

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I'm never for it. It's not any man's place to decide when another should die, thats God's job. People will always pay for what they have done, God is just.

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If I thought the death penalty was carried out justly in America, then I'd probably feel better about it.

I'd rather there wouldn't be a death penalty if it meant that the wrongfully convicted and mentally challenged are spared their lives.

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He that is in the world is of the world, therfore let the world judge him and let the people of God judge the things which are of God.

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Amen, or stick with an eye for an eye. How can one under Grace rightfully judge someone according to Law? Hey, I think I just accidentally quoted Scripture?

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i believe all serial child molesters should burnt alive.
I belive serial rapist should be fed to the lions.
I believe that the drug lords should have their drug crops burnt by napalm.

I've been against the death penalty in the past. But I have come to believe it's a necessary evil for a civil society. I'd have to be absolutely convinced to flip a switch. I'd also like to know that the condemned made their peace with God, embraced their fate, and were prepared to go home. I'd include violent sex crimes against women and children as grounds for the death penalty.

I also believe in corporal punishment (stripes & caning as in Singapore) and financial restitution.

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To date more than 100 people who were on death row have had cases overturned by DNA. Most for rape and murder. For this reason I would never find the death penality a satisfactory solution.

I live in the state that kills more inmates than most other states all put together.

Please read White Lies/ The Clarence Brandly story if you would like to see and example of 'justice' in the county where I live.

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Sometimes the things which are just are not always justified. The acts and thoughts and actions of ourselves are then again measured again unto us. i myself in my profession have seen the suffering of the innocent due to the evil of the unrighteousness.
As a man one of my rolls are to protect my family. As police officer my roll is to protect others even if my life hangs in the balance.
The just for the unjust, many times have I too thought it. But then too I have thought dear Lord jesus thank you for not executing judgement and justice on me.

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The death penalty as executed under Grace should not be compared to the death sentence as executed under Law, as Austin has just so eloquently pointed out.

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Paul teaches that the unrepentant world is still under the law, and that the law is designed to show guilt and to bring people to Christ:

But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless... and for sinners... for murderers... for sodomites, for kidnappers, for perjurers... 1 Tim. 1:8-10
All the world is under the law:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God... Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Rom. 3:19, 31
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Gal. 3:24-25

Source: http://www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML

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REALLY??? It was a very conservative number. The innocence project lists 289 although not all death penalty cases. If it were even one innocent person executed, read; murdered, by the state, that is too many. Just recently a very likely innocent man was executed just up the road in Huntsville despite a huge outcry for a stay and new trial. Texas at least, has proved that a little innocence will not keep them from killing you if they legally can.

So you are aware my brother is currently facing the death penalty so I have done some research. Unfortunately I have no reason to believe that he is innocent.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/529

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Cont...onerations.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...th_row_inmates

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Not that I am convinced the death penalty is great... But if the killing of an innocent is grounds for not having it, could we similarly oppose all war?

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Yes but that does not mean that we, being under grace, should treat those still ignorantly under the law with...more law? Isn't this the definition of insanity?

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I do believe in the death penalty, but I feel like the burden of evidence should be exceptionally high. I shudder to think rof how many innocent people we have executed in the name of justice. Yes the number of 100 is conservative...but consider this. Those 289 specific cases that have been overturned due to DNA only have the potential to include cases where there is DNA evidence. There are thousands of eyewitness and circumstantial cases where DNA doesn't even exist. We'll never have a clear number on those. We have all heard very real cases of gross prosecutorial injustices and bias. I couldn't imagine me or a loved one in that kind of predicament.

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Yes we could, but will we?

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Those are excellent points, Stew.

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I have always admired victims family members, that forgive the ones that murdered their loved ones. Mostly they do it for their own peace of mind I think. And I try to remember with the death penalty, their are always many victims on both sides. And both sides lose someone.

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Lab errors in Houston TX.

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Because the people involved in the prosecution of these cases are also using them to build careers they are not without bias. There can be huge public pressure to bring someone, anyone in and once they have targeted a suspect it is not in their best interests to let it go easily. This can be a set up for abuse of the system.

Do not misunderstand. We are a family with deep roots in law enforcement but I believe that only God should determine a persons time of death and if we try to circumvent that in our quest for justice we have tipped the scales in a wrong direction. One can never give someone back their life once it is taken.

Stew have you read the Clarence Brandley story? Happened right here in my home town and all of the crooked DAs that were involved are now judges. Every person involved in the false prosecution of Mr. Brandley was rewarded for their work on the case, when he was exonerated not one of them lost their promotion, let alone their job, over it. There is absolutely no accountability for police officers and DAs that knowingly persecute the innocent.

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:thumbsup

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I am inclined to agree, but then I remembered the healing that is available for those who choose to forgive.

Burning them alive doesn't read right at all.

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So who is to forgive them? The victims or people not involved in the crime at all? In most cases it is the "people not involved in the crime at all" who think they are capable of forgiving the perps on behalf of the victims.

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Yes, I am aware of his story. I personally don't think I could live with myself if I was party to condemning innocent people. All humans make legitimate mistakes, but there should absolutely be the harshest of penalties when there is actual misconduct and intentional subversion of the law and due process. They should have to pay no matter how long it takes for the truth to come out.

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In the case of childhood sexual abuse it is most often a family member or close family friend that is responsible for the abuse. While burning the person alive may sound like a good idea on the surface, because of the anger that a crime against an innocent causes, it is not really a workable solution.

These child victims can have a huge amount of guilt when the abuser is even found out, arrested, punished. In reality, something like the death of the abuser is not usually going to be satisfaction to the abused, it is more likely to be more pain, grief and guilt.

I grew up in the foster care system. There were a lot of us with abuse backgrounds and there was even abuse in the system. Over the years I have seen people change, lives and relationships healed and restored. None of that is possible after death. It is a well established fact that most abusers are the product of abuse so are we saying we would kill for them now but kill them later if they follow what appears to be a natural progression for may who are abused and become abusers themselves? It makes no sense. Instead we need to focus our limited time, energy and money helping the abused to deal with what has happened to them and avoid continuing the cycle.

If there is not hope for true rehabilitation of an abuser then those who are a danger to others should be permanently separated from polite society. I have some rather radical ideas about how to accomplish that separation in less expensive ways but I won't get into them here. I will say that medical science has a lot to offer in the way of helping with rehabilitation. Chemical and physical castration as well as certain types of brain surgeries can alter behavior and render one who was dangerous no longer dangerous but we consider that cruel. I think it's a man thing that we believe that losing testicles is a fate worse than death when really these people could probably be safely returned to society.

Most murder victims families admit that they found no closure or peace at the killer being executed. It seemed like they would but then didn't. I can only assume from this that God was right when He said to forgive our enemies. Forgiveness makes us stronger and grows us into who God wants us to be. That is not fluff, it's real stuff. :)

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No doubt our system needs reform.

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That is horrible.

What if we had a system wherein if one was exhonorated after execution and crooked procedures were found in the case of the prosecution, the DA faced ten years in prison?

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It is a complicated problem Aquila. The prosecutors are using evidence that they themselves did not collect oft times. They need to be effective. Even where it is the guilty being tried everything may not be just laid out neat and tidy. There are almost always some loose ends. But yes, where someone is railroaded, in this case plainly because of race, I think that there should be penalties.

In situations like this it gives me great comfort to know that all will face a just God.

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After several got burnt alive for attacking kids, do you believe this kind of crime would end or go down quickly?

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Does anybody remember the time outgoing Governor Ryan commuted the sentences of all death row inmates because he was not sure how many of these people were indeed innocent of the crime they were accused and found guilty of?

The families of slain people were very upset.


I am afraid that there is no real solution to this very devastating problem until our Lord Jesus returns to rule the earth. Man sure has proven that we cannot govern our own selves.


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/us...ted=all&src=pm

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Ah; you perceive no shift in premise though, from Law to Grace? We are supposed to now sacrifice, do the hard thing, except in cases where the death penalty is determined to apply, then fry 'em? They were under law, anyway? If I understand you right, ty.

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I am opposed to abortion and opposed to capital punishment.
With that said, I would have no problem defending my family with deadly force, if necessary.