Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

What do you guys think about this blog post?

The common myths listed are:

Myth #1: Gay people, including Christians, always choose their same sex desires.

Myth #2: Same-sex attracted Christians can always experience a reversal of their desires, and, in essence, become straight.

Myth #3: Any Christian who continues to experience same-sex desires is in sin.

Read the whole post for further explanation.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I agree essentially with the three statements. The third stresses desires and not actions. Desires need to be dealt with but carrying them out is the rank sin. We all desire sinful things, or else we would not be tempted. But carrying them out is the problem. The need is for the work of the cross to remove the desire of such a thing. Jesus also said that lusting in our hearts is like committing the act. But the second may be up for debate since sin is in the blood sometimes... Not born there, but hard to extract.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I read the blog, and I would say the author has succumbed to a myth which itself needs to be "debunked": the myth that there is such a thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian.

The second myth the author perpetuates is that the Bible differentiates between thought and action. "As long as I only think homosexual thoughts and don't engage in homosexual practice, I'm okay."

I'll address the second myth first. According to Mt 5:28, Scripture does not differentiate between thoughts and actions. If we allow sinful thoughts to develop into lusts, even if we don't act on them, the Bible says it's the same as if we had acted on them. That's why Paul said we are commanded to bring every thought "into captivity to the obedience of Christ" (2Cor 10:5).

Now, the second myth: there is such a thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian. Paul said:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" (1Cor 6:9-11 NASU).

According to Paul, regardless of our prior unrighteous "orientation", after becoming born again, we are no longer associated with those titles/labels/sinful states. We become "new creatures" in Christ:

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;” (2 Cor 5:17-18 KJV)

As regards to our sexuality, there are only two "orientations" in Christ as a new creature: those who are disposed to heterosexual marriage, and those who are celibate (Mt 19, 1Cor 7, Heb 13:4, etc.). Again, all sexual thoughts which occur outside the context of heterosexual marriage- regardless of the subject matter- are to be "brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ" (2Cor 10:5).

So we see from Scripture that there is no such thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian. If a Christian- a "new creature" in Christ Jesus- experiences a particular temptation, they are to bring those thoughts into captivity to Christ, and we are promised that no temptation we encounter would be so strong as to bring us into bondage, but that God will give us the victory over it (1Cor 10:13).

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Nicely spoken, thank you for this.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I offer no apology, i have no need to read some mans blog. I can get my answer from the word of God. God's opinion is the only one I am interested in. have a good day.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I'm not following you. What do you mean by "apology"?

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I have heard some christians offer an apology before saying the word of god.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Hey Dave, I read your post. I disagree, if I understand you correctly. This response is not meant to debate you, but to discuss the issue. I’ll share my thoughts on your statements.

First, the Bible does draw a clear distinction between thought and action. Notice that Jesus said that if a man “looks at a woman to lust after her” he has committed adultery…in his heart. Jesus didn’t say such a man has simply “committed adultery.” Jesus drew a distinction between the desire for sin in the heart and sin committed. Thus, if one has fallen pray to such thoughts, it is revealed that they have an adulterous heart. Not that they have committed adultery. Any man who has struggled in this area must be honest and tell himself, “I have an adulterous heart.” Then such a man must make provisions to guard his heart and his actions that he not commit adultery. Praise God, Jesus can change the heart if such a man surrenders it to Jesus.

However, with regards to the blog… the question isn’t so much “thoughts”. It’s “desires”. One’s flesh can have desires that one honestly finds deplorable. Many have killed themselves because they couldn’t “re-wire” their flesh from liking things that they found to be detestable. When it comes down to biology… for whatever reason (repeated exposure or genetics) the biological response of a gay person responds to same gender pheromones. Their bodies don’t respond to opposite gender pheromones. That means, being close to someone of the same gender “turns them on” biologically. It’s a “switch” in the flesh.

The point is… they may hate gay thoughts. They may fight them as a straight person might fight thoughts of lust for the opposite gender. But, like a straight person’s body responds to the opposite gender, their bodies respond the same gender.

With regards to 2 Corinthians 10:5, I think you are misinterpreting it. Paul isn’t talking about taking every thought we think captive as though we can control every thought that comes to mind. Paul is actually saying something entirely different. The following is a better rendering of the meaning behind the text:

2 Corinthians 10:5
English Standard Version (ESV)
5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

2 Corinthians 10:5
Amplified Bible (AMP)
5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

Paul is talking about refuting arguments, opinions, theories, reasonings, philosophies, and thoughts, or proposals, and bringing them into obedience to Christ. Think, “culture war”… not "thought management".

A good example would be this: If they “proved” tomorrow that homosexuality was genetic and that they were in effect “born that way”…. We’d simply have to realize and inform them that their finding only confirms what is written in Scripture… they were indeed born sinners by nature. There is indeed no good thing in our wretched flesh. You see, while they will feel that their finding exonerates them from having to admit to sin… we can actually show how their findings confirm everything we’ve been telling them from the Word of God. In essence, we’ve torn down that theory, reasoning, opinion, argument, or thought and made it subject to Jesus Christ.

So you’re telling me that a true Christian cannot have sexual thoughts outside of marriage??? Single people don’t find themselves turned on, sexually attracted to, or interested in having sex with another person UNTIL AFTER they're married??? Lol I have to be misunderstanding you here. I say this because even in the Song of Solomon the lovers are infatuated with the thought of getting together BEFORE their wedding. It’s holy, a blessing, beautiful, and altogether lovely when two people are in love to the degree that they desire one another above all else… but yet wait until the wedding night. According to you those singles who are engaged and find their minds wondering to the idea of being intimate with their soon to be spouse are in sin, non-Christian, and need to suppress those healthy and blessed desires. I don’t buy the implications of your position, therefore I cannot accept it.

Now… back to the subject. Paul stated that many in the Corinthian church “were” homosexuals. And that now they are “new creatures”. First, you have a misunderstanding of regeneration and the process of sanctification. Being a “new creature” is because of regeneration, our union with God through the indwelling Holy Spirit. No creature exists like this and no one who receives the Holy Ghost ever existed like this prior. Therefore after receiving the Holy Ghost… they are new creatures. However, that is with regards to the “spirit” not the “soul” (mind). Throughout one’s life one must cultivate the mind of Christ over the carnal mind through prayer, meditation, teaching, and study. There are highs and there are lows. This is a process. The key is, as new creatures, carnal thoughts are against their inner nature. Thus, any carnal thoughts of this nature will indeed trouble them. Paul isn’t saying that after being born again of the Spirit they would never have another carnal thought or struggle with temptations. I find your reasoning a little flawed, again… if I’m understanding you correctly.

The point is, there are Christians with a proclivity, or disposition, towards homosexual sin. Just as there are Christians with a proclivity, or disposition, towards adultery, stealing, gluttony, cursing, anger, violence, etc. Why is it one who struggles with stealing (klepto), anger issues, or heterosexual lust are acknowledged as being Christians who are struggling with the sinful nature of the flesh… but we don’t acknowledge homosexual Christians as being simply Christians who struggle with the predisposition of homosexuality in their flesh???

Stop the hate and simply bring them to Christ. They may have temptations in this area for the rest of their lives. Some may even fall into sin several times throughout their Christian lives, only to get back up and try yet again to live for Jesus.

Human beings are sinful wretched creatures. And there are all kinds of sinners. Christians are sinners who have been forgiven and are now in union with God through the Holy Spirit based on Christ’s righteousness, not their own. And every Christian I have ever known has experienced continued temptation towards a given sin of some sort. Let’s not make this one out to be any different from any other. There is only ONE unforgivable sin. Let’s not start making this one out to be a second, when Scripture states no such thing.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Yes, many Christians are curtious and desire not to loose their audience before giving their message. Hense... apologetics. Others are... well... better suited to shock jock talk radio. lol

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

only in a very deceived mind.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

You doubt that there are Christians with a temptation towards, predisposition to, or proclivity for homosexual sin in their flesh?

If that's true...

There's no such thing as a Christian with a temptation towards, predisposition to, or proclivity for pornography in their flesh.

There's no such thing as a Christian with a temptation towards, predisposition to, or proclivity for pigging out on the buffet bar after church (gluttony) in their flesh.

There's no such thing as a Christian with a temptation towards, predisposition to, or proclivity for anger, strife, or debate in their flesh.

I'm seeing a fundamental misunderstanding of the sin nature, regeneration, and sanctification here. According to this if a Christian continues to be tempted by sin, occasionally struggles with or falls into sin... they are not a Christian. This is a grave perfectionist and legalistic error. Let's not forget that sanctification is a process. Different Christians are in different places in their walk in relation to personal sanctification. The goal is to press everyone to continue to move forward in their spiritual journey until they are conformed into the image of Jesus Himself.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Anybody who thinks this is such a "cut and dry" issue should read this interview with Justin Lee, founder of the Gay Christian Network.

I challenge you to read it. You do not have to agree with everything he says, but you should read it.

Also keep in mind that many call themselves "gay," but it does not necessarily imply gay behavior.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I agree with you Aquila, but note that a Christian tempted by these, just as a homosexual might be tempted, do not affix "Glutton" to the front of Christian, and attempt to legitimize it, as it seems to me homosexuals do? Or, to put it a less kind way, there is no such thing as a ______ Christian. You are a Christian, and ______ is your problem, not a badge of pride, or a meaningful label.

"Also keep in mind that many call themselves "gay," but it does not necessarily imply gay behavior."

Ortho, I am unclear the meaning here, do you mean the old def of "gay" for these? ty

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I understand and respect your hesitance to accept the label "gay Christian." However, I think I disagree.

Wesley Hill, a same-sex attracted Christian wrote a book review recently about sexual identity labels. Here is part of what he said:

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

This is only the result of marginalizing gays in the church to an extreme. Those who have obeyed the Gospel want to be recognized as being Christians... even if they still have their struggles. I believe all disciples of Jesus should simply be called "Christians". But that doesn't happen in this world. They want people to know that those who are in this circumstance (be it because of genetics or experience) can be saved.

We still freak out at the little word "gay". lol

Aquila hits the mark yet again.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Ya, I keep hearing this defense, and I keep not buying it? The phrase "Gay Christian" legitimizes gays, or (further, if that is possible) demeans Christians. Ha, and I take five, come back, and see the hypocrisy, sort of, maybe, in a sense. My best friend is gay, and I'm pretty sure he would claim to be a Christian. I see him as a Christian, and his orientation as none of my business, except when it is tacked on, in all innocence, to "Christian." I accept it like I accept I am a "Cigarette-smoking Christian," which I must immediately deny, as my image of myself does not support this. This is not the way it will always be, and dang sooner rather than later. I think attaching _______ to Christian denies this in an essential way that is either not intended in uttering "I am a _____ Christian," or is intended, and that may be the question.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I have to disagree with many of the basic concepts here. I agree that it might not be possible for someone to ever end entirely an attraction to a member of the same gender. However, I do believe that such thoughts must be immediately replaced by something that falls in the category of whatsoever things are good, holy, true, virtuous, of good report, etc.

Second, I have seen to many 'gay-oriented Christians' start off by saying that we are too harsh when talking about the issue. It always ends with them trying to persuade us that a pro-gay lifestyle is acceptable in the eyes of God. If it has ever failed to be that, I am not aware of it.

The homosexual movement could not conquer the church from without, so they have decided to take her from within.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Most of the "gay Christians" that I know only call themselves "Christians", unless the context of a discussion is about subjects that would make being of homosexual orientation relevant. I am relatively certain there are such Christians reading our conversation.

Context.

In the church I attend everyone simply calls themselves a Christian. However, in a youth group service three or four kids stood up and addressed the crowd as "Cutter Christians". Their message? "Jesus was cut for the cutters." These are kids that cut themselves to release emotional pain through bleeding. And they have found peace in Christ. Sometimes they still feel like cutting... but now they are not alone and they turn to Jesus. The context of their message was proper for them to call themselves, "Cutter Christians". In the case of an internet article about the subject at hand, I don't think using the term "gay Christian" is altogether inappropriate.

Of course... if one word you disagree with can send you into a tail spin with regards to seriously acknowledging brothers and sisters in Christ who happen to struggle with homosexuality... I think there's a more serious issue than the word "gay".

I may not agree with them on every point of theological dispute. But I can't judge them based on the terms they use. After all... I'm going to spend all eternity "married" to a Jewish carpenter. lol

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Gay christian? soon we will have thief christian, violent christian, etc.... when will the foolishness stop?

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Refering to themselves as gay is quite telling.

While the term "gay Christian" might insight hatred or criticism from many...it will certainly catch the attention of those believers who feel being gay has put them beyond God's love or the right to call themselves "Christian".

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

yup.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Don't listen to haters who can't relate or understand what you're going through. To all my Christian brothers and sisters who are struggling with any sin and the flesh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6pS5HCkgPI

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

As an individual you are not married to Jesus. Only the church body corporately is the bride. We each individually are children of God, and brothers and sisters of the Son.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

There are many self-identifying gay Christians who are convinced that same sex relationships are acceptable to God.

BUT...

As I quoted Mark Yarhouse earlier,

"There are many young Christians who are choosing to remain celibate but who nonetheless share a common sense of experience with members of the gay community, and the use of the word 'gay' (as a self-defining attribution) is an honest account of their sexual attractions and reflects the resonance they feel with the gay community at that level."

And let's not pretend that the Church has always handled this issue perfectly in the past. We all should be aware of that.

But if some of us disagree about the labeling part, that's fine. I accept that.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I agree here also, and would not deny anyone God's love. I hate to be the one to criticize, but when you literally affront "Christian" with any other symbol, you have lost your way. I can identify with your unwillingness to fruit, I have no children yet due to similar issues, but the difference is, I think, that I trust that I will outgrow this, and a gay would not make this admission.
If that defines you, I'm sorry, but gay is your god.
People who are Christian, and are aware of their issues, and currently do whatever for some release that they can admit they need to outgrow is a different story.
The bottom line is God loves you anyway. You are life. Act like it.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Great post.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Just my two cents...I believe ANY person seeking Jesus should be accepted, and nobody should be condemned for a sin. However if a person presents themself as gay, I believe they should understand very quickly the biblical definition of homosexual. I feel the same way about convicted rapists, only difference is I feel the church as a whole should know (I haven't figured out a good way to let the church know except word of mouth) that so and so has been convicted of such and such.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

It was a joke bro. lol

My point is that we're rejecting an entire class of people based on "terminology" they've chosen to use in this cultural climate. For generations people used the terms "black church" and "white church". Sunday was (and still is in some areas) the most segregated day of the week. People have a way of choosing terms based on cultural relevance and experience. Should Jesus tarry and homosexuality cease to be the second unpardonable sin... we might see "gay Christians" (people who have same gender attraction or temptations) starting to simply call themselves... "Christians". But until then... do you think I care what they call themselves if they are inquiring about Jesus? No. I don't. Because getting them closer to Jesus (even with some of their misconceptions) is far more important than criticizing the earthly terms they use. Many "gay Christians" reach out to "gay lost people" and teach them that they can find the love of God and the strength to live for Christ. That matters far more than the fact that they use the term "gay" in front of the term "Christian". Like I said, it's like the "Cutter Christians" that spoke at the youth rally. They were identifying themselves with cutters. Why? To REACH them. Paul said,

1 Corinthians 9:19-21
English Standard Version (ESV)
19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

These brothers and sisters simply have one angle Paul, you, and I don't have. They are gay. They've been there and done that. They can speak to gays as... a gay. Why find fault with that as long as they are leading broken men and women to Christ?

We don't criticize people for calling themselves "Messianic Christians".

My point is... terminology isn't as important as motive and fruit. If they can reach gay people by calling themselves "gay Christians"... I certainly don't care what they call themselves.

After all... some of our terms are odd sounding to outsiders too. Like you and me being the bride of Christ. Get wedding garment on bro... we're going to marry a Jewish carpenter. lol

Terms can't be judged based on how they initially sound.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

"Gay Christian"

It's like saying,

- Messianic Christian
- Apostolic Christian
- Spirit Filled Christian
- Pentecostal Christian
- Holiness Christian
- Evangelical Christian
- Judeo Christian
- Creedal Christian
- Confessionl Christian
- Pretribulational Christian
- Midtribulational Christian
- Pre-Wrath Christian
- Post Tribulational Christian
- Preterist Christian
(and the list could go on and on...)

People use terms with relation to context. Most above would simply call themselves "Christian". Including some of the "gay Christians" that I know. However, when reaching out to the gay community or trying to help remove un-called for hatred or stigma that hinders gay seekers from coming to the cross... the term "gay Christian" is no doubt a quite useful for them.

My point is... if they are pressing in to the crowd of this culture to get a closer look at Jesus, and some stand to a chance to be conformed into His image... I don't care what they call themselves. Besides... technically... in a sense, we all should be "gay" Christians:

Definition of GAY
1a : happily excited : merry <in a gay mood> b : keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>

Some of you guys need to laugh and love a little more. Become a "gay Christian". lol

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

SSSTTTTRRRREEECCCCCTTHHHHHHH! we not are to identify with a sinful lifestyle. old things passed away, right? What happened to identify with in Christ alone.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

amazing, some things are so simple it shouldnt even be a discussion.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

You're not understanding me. You're just choosing to differ for difference sake because this is the "gay issue".

Of course I believe we are not be identified by sinful lifestyles. However, if Christians who happen to relate to homosexual sin and temptation wish to use the term as part of their outreach to gays... no harm done really.

It would be like rebuking the "Cutter Christians" who teach young people who cut themselves that, "Jesus was cut for the cutter.", merely because they used the term "Cutter Christians". Of course, I'm sure you'll say that you'd rebuke them too just to be consistent. But I'd wager dollars to doughnuts you'd not rebuke them if they came to your church with their story and reached out to the youth and their friends who might be cutters. This is just another example of singling out a specific class of sinner to surrender them to the flames of further hatred and criticism.

I believe homosexuality is a sin as much as anyone here. However, I'm going to tell the truth. And I'm going to call it like it is. Being gay isn't the unforgiveable sin. Struggling with homosexuality isn't an unforgiveable sin. And as long as they are seeking to be like Christ in all things, they are brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of the temptations they face from time to time. While we're wrangling over the terms they've chosen to use... many "gay ministries" are reaching out to save the souls of men and women struggling with this. What's more important... the wrangling over a term... or reaching a soul for Christ?

So please try to understand what I'm actually saying.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I prefer the clouds, seated in heavenly places. No gayness, cutting, liars, whoremonging there. :) a place of new creation.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

(sigh of relief). Okay. lol

I know you were tongue in cheek, but some actually do look at themselves individually as the bride of Christ, though. They do not realize there is a distinction between individuality and corporate church body.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

I think we need to define terms one more time. Some of us are not speaking the same language here.

Aquila, when you say, "Homosexuality is a sin," do you mean that a person who experiences daily, unwanted, exclusive, same sex impulses is sinning? If so, he must have to be repenting, like, 24/7. Just like a heterosexual would have to be constantly repenting if an opposite-sex orientation was wrong.

Or, from what I understand from your posts, I think you could more precisely say, "Homosexual behavior or homosexual fantasy is a sin."

Truthseeker insists that the adjective "gay" or "homosexual" automatically implies sin. (Like "fornicating Christian.") But I think the terms "gay" and "straight" are amoral (neither right nor wrong). It just depends on how you act out those desires. For gay people, faithfulness might mean celibacy. For straight people, faithfulness might mean monogamous marriage.

Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians
 

Really, Aquila? SMH