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I hope this dosent sound silly. Sometimes certain 'words' amaze me. I was thinking about how we refer to 'Accepting Jesus as my Saviour'/ 'Accept Salvation' etc.....
But it seems to really come down to this very word 'Accept'. It occurs to me that a lot of people do not 'Accept'....that Jesus 'is'. They don't accept the very 'idea/concept' of Jesus.
I am thinking of Hebrews 11:6 where it say's, But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
I would really like to understand 'why' people choose not to believe....I really do not remember what I felt about it before salvation....I guess I must have always 'believed'....even when I had not yet actively 'come' to Him.

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I think this "always believed" is that universal knowledge of God that we all have, and we either deny or "initially" accept; and I believe satan works OT mostly on this,
http://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-the...ristian-Models ,
and similar ways to make sure that newbies get as twisted a message as possible.
Christ remained quite abstract, to me at least, under the standard American Christian model; the words always sounded right--when they weren't adding stuff like "with the initial evidence of yadayada"--but the overall image just wasn't the tree of life i had hoped for? I see this changing now, ty God, but I'd say that Christians have done themselves damage here, and have to work around a proselytizing image now.

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people that have not accepted have "blinded minds" and our mainly concerned with self and idolatry.

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I'd say the acceptance level ends up being a bell curve, don't you think? It seems quite a ways from "never thought about it much" to "I'm an atheist." And you must admit their childhood training overwhelmingly favors selfishness and fosters greed, etc., especially in a public school setting, even if the household is solidly Christian? Outside influences can just be overwhelming when the kids are not home most of the time, and til recently, neither mom or dad were not home when they were. We make this.

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:lol

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I'm not sure why this comes to the surface here, but it should be noted that there is a selfish component even in a person's desire to walk closer to God; I would say beginning component, but I find it present after...35 years. I wish to have stature in the Kingdom of God. Surely not an unselfish motive; hmm, not sure it's entirely altruistic...selfish altruism, altruistic selfishness. Hmm.

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I have a problem with the phrases of "accepting Jesus" into our lives.

Jesus plainly said : Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

(John 15:16)

Saying that "we accept Jesus" seems to be sort of backwards to me..like Jesus is sitting there just waiting for us humans to "accept him" into our crowd. Seems disrespectful towards our Creator who offers us so much and we talk about "accepting" him. It seems that we should be begging Him to allow us to serve Him instead of just "accepting Him" don't ya think?

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And forgivenson, my post is not meant to disparage you or your thoughts in any way. I've had these feelings about this for many years. So please do not take it as such. Thanks in advance.

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The sinner whoever they may be, practice sin without any conscience toward God. That is what is sometimes called being spiritually dead in sin. Those who have not been regenerated are spiritually dead in acknowledging the fact that God does exist and is real.

Then there are those who acknowledge the presence of God and state they believe there's a god and they believe in God but, God is not a living reality to them because they have never for some reason or other experienced him.

I was raised in religion as a child growing up. Always believed in God and sometimes talked to him. The problem was, the religion never transformed me and never taught me to be transformed. They taught that doing all the religious acts would save me, but it didn't.

One day when I really heard the gospel preached I surrendered my life to him [ Jesus ] by faith and with a heart of genuine repentance toward God, that's when He became a living reality and not just a figure of thought.

That happened as a result of His spirit regenerating my spirit and causing it to become alive unto Him, or in other words, Jesus ' power gave me a born again experience where I passed from spiritual dead unto spiritual life in God.

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Some people just are not master communicators. If they show a life reborn in the spirit and a sincere desire to live for God I am not going to criticize how they express how they got there. If they say that they 'accepted' Jesus as part of their testimony or even tell others to 'accept' Jesus as part of spreading the gospel, I am not going to knock it. I think it's the doing of those things that matters to God- Not how strong our voice is, how perfectly structured, how theologically correct, or precisely delivered our words... But that our hearts, now being changed by the work of the Holy spirit, desire to see another heart changed.

Sometimes, when things get down to semantics, I know that we have way too much time on our hands. :)

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Lol. Our proxy for "creation."

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It's not about knocking how other posters express themselves. I am no more a master communicator than many here. In fact, I am probably the least of communicators here. However, words have meanings and we should learn to express ourselves (myself included) because we know the enemy can and does twist our lack of communication skills to change what we may try to express. "Accepting Jesus" and being chosen by Him to do His work are two different things. We are likewise called to exhort one another and to learn from each other in Christian like-mindedness. Discussion does not have to be done in hostility as some say they see on these forums.

Now if we are going to say we "accept Him", shouldn't we really be saying that we accept his calling to do the work to serve Him because we have been chosen by Him for his specific purpose in our life?

Many people accept our Lord and Savior, but do we perform the works in which we are called to do is the question? According to the scripture below, we must be chosen according to Christ's criteria, not our own.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 ¶And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

(Matthew 22:14)

Forgivenson brought up a very important subject. He asks "why" people choose not to believe. He says he has always believed but did not "actively" come to Him as yet.

So, I am thinking the same thing for myself except that I am going to add that I always "accepted" that Jesus existed and "accepted" Him, but did I truly accept that He chose me to fulfill a work for His cause? This is why I have a problem with just saying that we accept Jesus. We are chosen by Him and we should desire to not just be called, but to be among the chosen.

Forgivenson, your post is not "silly" ... rather it is a very important thought you brought up.

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yup.

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I see what you are saying AYR... I just know that some people who express themselves as having 'accepted' Jesus do indeed show a life regenerated and the lack of respect shown them by many OPs who insist that they can not possibly be 'saved', not being able to articualte themselves in the precise words of thier (OPs) belief system gets on my very last half a nerve :) Please do not see my post as contradicting anything you personally have said which is a very good point.

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I'm cool with what you are saying sister. I just wanted to try to express myself a little further on the subject. Having dialogue helps to bring more thought out
on the subject.

And yes, you are right about some of the OP thought process. I had a friend who was baptized in Jesus Name and filled with the Holy Ghost and lived the OP lifestyle for many years. She began to actually read what was in the bible and saw some inaccuracies in what she was taught. One day she had her hair cut and styled. It was still long, just styled very pretty. She went to a ladies meeting and felt that what she contributed spiritually was not taken seriously because she was viewed as "backslidden" for the sole reason her hair was cut.

She left our area and I miss her.

Believe it or not, sometimes leaving the OP movement brings about Spiritual regeneration. Why? Because when one leaves, one is not worn down with extra biblical baggage that disrupts the growing spiritual process and abundant life that Christ speaks we can obtain. We are freer to put our energy into learning and praying without worrying about how we look in the movement's vision. Sometimes I think OP polices people rather than to exhort them into higher spiritual teachings.

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I'll expand my thoughts just a little here as well.

Many times it is the 'sinners prayer' that includes the term 'accept Jesus as personal savior' and those that have come to Christ in denominations that practice it that repeat the terms quoted by the original poster. For that reason I saw the original post as a slight to those who express faith this way.

It is often the postition of OPs that these people can not 'recieve' salvation in this way. Yet, I personally have lived long enough to know people who have come to Christ in just this way, including those who have lived and died in the faith without wavering. It is the single point that drives me from the UPCI like no other.

Over the years I have met many in other denominations who more fully understood their reason for baptism than many who slide beneath the water of Oness Pentecostal Baptistries. Many who have a faithful prayer life, who have witnessed signs and wonders following, who have remained faithful through extreme adversity.... Yet if you asked the average OP... while they would say 'I would not judge' ... in their heart of hearts they believe that these people of other denominations are indeed lost for lack of following the three step formula.

I do not express my own conversion as 'accepting Jesus' but I do not wonder about any who do, personally believing that between them and God. But then again I'm a very eyes on my own paper kind of girl. :)

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Amen to that. The moment you decide someone else is lost, you are lost.

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:spit

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?

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I know, this strikes Christians as heresy, huh? That you are somehow not qualified to make a judgement about someone else's relationship with God...sure you need a Scripture for that?


New International Version (©1984)
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
So don't make judgments about anyone ahead of time--before the Lord returns. For he will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives. Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

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The three-step "formula" is not something I am not used to discussing. I am assuming that it means 1. repentance. 2 baptism in Jesus name. 3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost. While I believe in all three, I don't think that God has put His plan into a "formula". LOL. I have been in the wilderness for almost 20 years so I am wondering is this formula talk something relatively new as I never heard it preached when I was attending UPC services ?

I, like you, cannot say that any person is lost or saved because it is not up to me. God makes those judgments. I am glad no human has that right for far too many will judge another into hell too easily.

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How do you define lost? I bet I fit. But don't call me lost or.......

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Ya, it was discovered that rules and regs weren't working; they're trying a formula now. you nailed it.

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Personally, is how I define "lost." I try, like surely every seeker, to define terms Scripturally, being open to an even higher def that will usually emerge from that, that being God's definition, as I think even the best religious definitions, from Scripture, are just that--religious definitions, attempts to understand God with man's understanding, that must fall short.

"Gather together the broken pieces that are over,
that nothing may be lost..."

Lost to me means "ignorant of truth," and other def's. You know I disagree with the "switch being thrown" theory, and I believe you are ignorant in some areas, and more knowledgeable than the pope in other, surely more important ones. Just like everyone else.

The problem when I judge your condition is that now I'm somehow compelled to fix you, rather than help you, and many Christians, I'd say most in the West, take this to mean proselytizing, when it is anything but, don't you think? Try that in many countries, and see what happens...and you can say that that's because they are heathen all you like, that doesn't make it true. You are satan when you do this to another person. Rather than demonstrating your belief, you are talking about it...

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Are you saying Christians who "witness" to the "lost" and try to "save" them are "satan"?

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I believe the difference in my and many Christian's interpretation here lies in the definition of the word witness.

But categorically, yes. Well intentioned, mis-informed, death-centric invitations to participate in a funeral, imo. When you are doing it right, they are looking for you, because you bring life, and quoting a Scripture at them is pointless. Anti-Christ. People flocked to hear Jesus, who was a relative unknown at the time--He did not flock to the lost in this sense.

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:toofunny

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lol.

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Dude...uh??

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When you label someone, anyone, "lost," you are judging them. Pure and simple. You have now observed a splinter, there in their eye, and you are gettin yur tweeeezers out, lol. This is not God's way. You don't see Him getting His tweezers out on you. Word. We attempt to "save the "lost" by barging in on their free will. Gl with that.

One has the most to learn, invariably, in the one that we might judge the quickest.

If you brighten faces when you walk into a room, TG, you are saved. If one concentrates on that, especially right now, people will flock to it. Demonstrate the principle, and they'll come looking for the Documentation, and they'll find their way to the necessary funeral.

Ha, most of us think we've been through the funeral...but I only see two guys, lol. None of us is done dying yet, we've been too immersed in death for that.